Question about DSD on the Yamaha NP-S303 while connecting to older AVR

DJM1976

Active Member
Hi all,

Today I done a firmware update on my Denon AVR X2000 and it has started playing lovely again after months of it hardly working I even wired up my Turntable to it via RCA and listening to my 45 of Black Sabbaths “Paranoid”, the sound was brilliant and took me back to my childhood listening to record.

Anyhow along with the smooth comes the rough and in this case the FM radio is awful and despite paying a small donation of $4 for access to VTuner, the network interface is clunky as hell and so while I am happy with the rest of the device and don’t really want to replace it but instead want to add to it. I was doing some reading up on the Yamaha NP-S303 for DAB / Airable Internet Radio etc have found one at a price that is a good £200 cheaper than say the Yamaha V4a, but there is something that has confused me and that is DSD.

Now it clearly states that DSD can be accessed on the NP-S303 and that the NP-S303 can be added to your existing unit or AMP. But in the manual it also states that no DSD stream would be sent through Coaxial or Optica, which leaves only the connection of RCA to the amp. Now I was always under the impression that RCA was of a lower bitrate than digital, but as DSD is classed as High Res Audio, does that mean it will lose quality through RCA, or have I completely misunderstood ?.

If anyone could clear this up for me it would be a great help.

Many thanks
 

Keith F

Standard Member
Hello,
I am also curious about this, as I am looking to get the Yamaha Network player. I am not so familiar with DSD, but if they state that DSD can only pass via RCA, I would assume it means that the Digital to Analogue conversion has to be done internally (the DAC in the Yamaha can decode DSD) but maybe not capable to pass the signal digitally? But this is just my guess. But to answer part of your question, whether its High res or not, at some stage it needs to be converted to Analogue (which is where you connect with RCA). If you were to use another Optical/Coaxial to connect another DAC - you are effectively 'passing the responsibility' of Digital to Analogue to another component - which might make sense if you have a higher quality seperate DAC. But in the case of this Yamaha, seems like if even if your other DAC can handle DSD, this Yamaha will not 'hand it over' as a digital signal.
 
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DJM1976

Active Member
Hello,
I am also curious about this, as I am looking to get the Yamaha Network player. I am not so familiar with DSD, but if they state that DSD can only pass via RCA, I would assume it means that the Digital to Analogue conversion has to be done internally (the DAC in the Yamaha can decode DSD) but maybe not capable to pass the signal digitally? But this is just my guess. But to answer part of your question, whether its High res or not, at some stage it needs to be converted to Analogue (which is where you connect with RCA). If you were to use another Optical/Coaxial to connect another DAC - you are effectively 'passing the responsibility' of Digital to Analogue to another component - which might make sense if you have a higher quality seperate DAC. But in the case of this Yamaha, seems like if even if your other DAC can handle DSD, this Yamaha will not 'hand it over' as a digital signal.
From the countless hours of research that I have been doing, you have pretty much nailed it. Now this is where it gets not only complex but also expensive. The cheapest route is to buy something like the Yamaha RN303D which can playback DSD files as it has it’s own built in amp, so there is no bridging externally And this costs £300

However if you want to add in a SACD player into the mix, then the only way they allow you to get the full SACD audio (not CD layer of the audio track), is by HDMI, if your player hasn’t got RCA then once again you need a DAC to convert to analogue to get the audio from the SACD. Now the cheapest way I have seen to do this is by purchasing something like the Yamaha V4a or VX-602. Both of these handle DSD files without the need of a separate amp and as both of them have HDMI, then they would take the HDMI connection for the SACD without needing to use the RCA. However as with these extras, you will have dig a little deeper as the V4a costs £450 and the VX-602 costs about £500, which is a good £200 more than the NP303 & RN303D.
 
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Keith F

Standard Member
To be honest, I am just venturing into streaming and DSD was a 'nice to have' feature. In my price range - the main ones I was considering was the Yamaha NPS 303, Marantz NA6006 or the Audiolab 6000N. Audiolab doesn't seem to support DSD. Although that's not a deal breaker I don't like that I have to use my phone to operate it. Between Marantz and Yamaha, I am leaning more towards Marantz as it has everything the Yamaha does, plus an Optical input so I can connect my Bluray player for movies. Although I do prefer Yamaha's cleaner look of the device. Lastly, where can you actually get DSD files? only by downloading? So far I see only Tidal that has DSD streaming.
 
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DJM1976

Active Member
To be honest, I am just venturing into streaming and DSD was a 'nice to have' feature. In my price range - the main ones I was considering was the Yamaha NPS 303, Marantz NA6006 or the Audiolab 6000N. Audiolab doesn't seem to support DSD. Although that's not a deal breaker I don't like that I have to use my phone to operate it. Between Marantz and Yamaha, I am leaning more towards Marantz as it has everything the Yamaha does, plus an Optical input so I can connect my Bluray player for movies. Although I do prefer Yamaha's cleaner look of the device. Lastly, where can you actually get DSD files? only by downloading? So far I see only Tidal that has DSD streaming.
I was also interested in the Marantz but then I learned of TuneIn’s legal issues with Sony & Warner and that now all the Rock / Metal / Alternative stations that I listened to on VTuner are now blocked in the UK, the only way around it is by using a VPN which is more expense. So I turned away from the likes of Denon & Marantz as both of them use TuneIn and leaned towards the Yamaha which uses a different internet radio supplier as I use Internet Radio more than FM or DAB.

As for DSD files, there is a list here of recommended places, there are also other means of obtaining DSD files but those cannot be listed on a respected public forum. I personally have been creating my own DSD files from my High Res turntable that can archive directly to DSD, so would be great to be able to play them from my NAS drive without needing to power up the computer or dig out the vinyl in question.
 
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Keith F

Standard Member
I was also interested in the Marantz but then I learned of TuneIn’s legal issues with Sony & Warner and that now all the Rock / Metal / Alternative stations that I listened to on VTuner are now blocked in the UK, the only way around it is by using a VPN which is more expense. So I turned away from the likes of Denon & Marantz as both of them use TuneIn and leaned towards the Yamaha which uses a different internet radio supplier as I use Internet Radio more than FM or DAB.

As for DSD files, there is a list here of recommended places, there are also other means of obtaining DSD files but those cannot be listed on a respected public forum. I personally have been creating my own DSD files from my High Res turntable that can archive directly to DSD, so would be great to be able to play them from my NAS drive without needing to power up the computer or dig out the vinyl in question.
thanks for the heads-up on the Marantz radio rights issue, because my main use for this streamer would be for Internet radio and Spotify or Tidal (I don't currently subscribe to either) but will do so once I get a streamer. And thank you for the list of DSD sources
 
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DJM1976

Active Member
thanks for the heads-up on the Marantz radio rights issue, because my main use for this streamer would be for Internet radio and Spotify or Tidal (I don't currently subscribe to either) but will do so once I get a streamer. And thank you for the list of DSD sources
No problem at all, I was quite shocked when I installed the TuneIn app on my iPad and couldn’t find any stations, so I loaded up my express vpn app and suddenly on the TuneIn app, all the stations appeared. So they were obviously blocked in the UK, and my way of thinking is that a vpn router would be needed to connect to the receiver to fool it into thinking that it wasn’t in the UK. Other than that it would mean casting from my iPad etc to the receiver which is a battery killer, so may as well just get a receiver that can connect to my favourite internet stations via favourites and not casting from the app.

DSD and SACD are pricer than regular tracks but the sound is amazing.
 
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Cebolla

Member
I was also interested in the Marantz but then I learned of TuneIn’s legal issues with Sony & Warner and that now all the Rock / Metal / Alternative stations that I listened to on VTuner are now blocked in the UK, the only way around it is by using a VPN which is more expense.
As TuneIn (like vTuner) is just an internet radio stream link aggregator, you don't actually listen to anything on TuneIn. It's TuneIn's supply of the radio stream links that are being blocked by TuneIn's own online server - not the actual internet radio streams themselves.

So another workaround would be to find another way of obtaining internet radio stream links & getting the Marantz to play them directly if it supports the audio stream format, or indirectly via a transcoding helper application if it doesn't.
 
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DJM1976

Active Member
As TuneIn (like vTuner) is just an internet radio stream link aggregator, you don't actually listen to anything on TuneIn. It's TuneIn's supply of the radio stream links that are being blocked by TuneIn's own online server - not the actual internet radio streams themselves.

So another workaround would be to find another way of obtaining internet radio stream links & getting the Marantz to play them directly if it supports the audio stream format, or indirectly via a transcoding helper application if it doesn't.
Yes I understand what you are saying there, because as soon as I enabled my vpn app and obtained an American IP address, the TuneIn app suddenly displayed all the links for my favourite stations as well as thousands upon thousands of others. Now as for getting the links to work on the receiver, one idea comes to mind, my Synology NAS allows links to radio stations to be added, so what I am thinking before I get the receiver is to add some links into the NAS drive and then access them on my current AVR via DLNA. If this works then AVR’s like the Marantz & Denon are back in The short list.
 
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