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question about 3D TV?

KhalJimbo

Distinguished Member
Hi All

I know that 3D is comig really soon, but as I understand it it is not blue and red but the polarized 3D tech that is used in cinemas with the polarized glasses bringing the picture back into focus.

Now apparently with 3D TV the screen is going to be polarized so we wont be having to use glasses to get the 3D effect. But in the cinema if you take the glasses off the image looks really REALLY soft and out of focus so how will this effect standard 2D viewing on a 3D screen or will it be a 3D viewing screen only?
 

philaitman

Established Member
Hi All

I know that 3D is comig really soon, but as I understand it it is not blue and red but the polarized 3D tech that is used in cinemas with the polarized glasses bringing the picture back into focus.

Now apparently with 3D TV the screen is going to be polarized so we wont be having to use glasses to get the 3D effect. But in the cinema if you take the glasses off the image looks really REALLY soft and out of focus so how will this effect standard 2D viewing on a 3D screen or will it be a 3D viewing screen only?

Glassesless 3D screens (At least the ones I have at work) use a lenticular lens array and you must sit in the sweet spot to see the 3d image, I can't see how you could have a glasses free polarised display. The current press releases I've seen are all either polarised or active systems which require glasses, unless I've missed an important press release on new tech :)
 

Hillskill

Moderator/Games Reviewer
Problem is there are a couple of different companies working on their own versions of 3DTVs. I am currently in the Market and have been umming and ahhing over whether to buy now with 3DTV coming so soon. I have reached the conclusion that 3DTV just isn't worth being an early adopter. I suspect there will be a couple of generations of sets before a quality piece of kit is released. Until 3D becomes a regular and in-demand feature in cinemas I really can't see it being a huge hit for the domestic market. So I will go ahead and buy my Full HD Plasma in hope it last me 18months to 2 years and then think about an upgrade to a 3DTV.
 

KhalJimbo

Distinguished Member
HillSkill,

Thats exactly what I was thinking, Panasonic is releasing there 3D model early next year, and while I am looking for an upgrade I was thinking of waiting for it. However I'm not to sure it will be justifiable to get a first gen one. Might try snap up a Kuro while there are still some about next month.

But still, back to the OQ, are these TV's going to need glasses as I cant imagine dimming the lights and wearing glasses for everything I want to watch, and granted there is alot of stuff thats not mastered into 3D too so how will these TV's handle pre 3D masters?
 

Hillskill

Moderator/Games Reviewer
HillSkill,

Thats exactly what I was thinking, Panasonic is releasing there 3D model early next year, and while I am looking for an upgrade I was thinking of waiting for it. However I'm not to sure it will be justifiable to get a first gen one. Might try snap up a Kuro while there are still some about next month.

But still, back to the OQ, are these TV's going to need glasses as I cant imagine dimming the lights and wearing glasses for everything I want to watch, and granted there is alot of stuff thats not mastered into 3D too so how will these TV's handle pre 3D masters?

I work in post production and I have yet to work on a 3D project that didnt require glasses. The company I have worked for has also started finalising a system that can render old 2D films and Programs into 3D within days as apposed to the current systems that take months. This tech is all based on the viewer wearing a pair of 3D glasses. I suspect gaming is the only likely area that could develop 3D video/images without the need for glasses in the short term but even then there would need to be some sort of sensor monitoring your head position to generate the 3D effect. There is a demo in this seminar from Ted.com (the whole thing is really interest BTW) but the clip below is just focussed on the head tracking aspect:

YouTube - Head Tracking for Desktop VR Displays using the WiiRemote
 

killiefan

Established Member
A colleague of mine visited the Grand Designs NEC exhibition at the weekend. Panasonic was displaying a 3D TV system for the home - but said it was still some months away from market.

My colleague has very little interest in the tech side of things, but the demo required glasses that were NOT like the old coloured lenses type.

She was most impressed. A minute or two of Avatar got the thumbs up, but it was highlights of the Beijing Olympics opening ceremony that blew her away.

However, she said she'd not feel comfortable watching with the glasses on for anything other than a big event. So no 3D Eastenders then. Which is a good thing.
 

NonPayingMember

Previously Liam @ Prog AV
Polarised glasses just look like clear plastic glasses. This is the most popular because they are cheap bits of plastic you can drop and treat badly and lose and replace at low cost. Being polarised light effect they just need the viewing screen to have a polarised layer and thus for the glasses to angle in the correct light feed for the correct eye.

Active Shutter Glasses take advantage of the high refresh rates possible with today's displays. If a signal is say 60Hz but a display can run at 120Hz, then the 60Hz full 1080p signal is split into 2 x 60Hz feeds one for each eye (total 120Hz refresh). The glasses are then timed to close one side then the other side and so on to match the refresh rate on the screen. The net result is that your left eye sees only the intended 60Hz left-eye information, and the right eye the right information. However the glasses are more expensive as they need to be accurate, but the advantage is having full 1080p60 information in 3D and not having to polarise the glass on the TV. Indeed some (very few) displays could be theoretically updated to work with this and a 3rd party plug-in box that would control the glasses.

Personally I don't know what I want. Ideally I want active glasses and full 1080p60 3D. However if we want 3D to become mainstream quickly I can imagine the market leaning toward the idea of cheaper plastic glasses and not really caring about having essentially half of the resolution (even if you still have to buy a new TV for it).
 

punkymunky

Established Member
I saw a 3D film at the weekend at the local cinema. I wanted to love it but personally I found it irritating, unrealistic and it gave me a headache (and I never get headaches!) It certainly added nothing to the movie other than gimmicky effects and I would have much preferred to see it without the uncomfortable specs, which also reduce brightness by the way. I can see why manufacturers are keen to promote this new USP which they can tag on to the struggling blu-ray format but I think it will just annoy people who have already purchased non-compatible HD kit and confuse people who haven't. I am totally convinced now that it's a dead duck for movies although it might do well in the gaming market, IMHO.
 

airmyx

Established Member
Personally I don't know what I want. Ideally I want active glasses and full 1080p60 3D. However if we want 3D to become mainstream quickly I can imagine the market leaning toward the idea of cheaper plastic glasses and not really caring about having essentially half of the resolution (even if you still have to buy a new TV for it).

Would it not be possible to make a passive system using a 4k2k panel, so that you still get 3D 1080p?

If passive wins any future 'format war' - would it not be a matter of time before the desire to see "Full HD 3D" drove the production cost of such super-high-resolution panels down?

As it stands though - I'd back the active tech and in-your-face effects. I want my 3D high res and gimmicky please. :D
 

sleepylaser

Prominent Member
I went to the Panasonic 3DfullHD roadshow in Birmingham today and am very impressed. The prototype goggles, with the alternating shutter technology, were a touch too heavy (I have to wear standard specs underneath to correct my site) and need slimming down before I buy it, but the 3D plasma screen is incredible.

They had a 100"+ full HD 3D plasma set in a mini theatre and showed 3 clips- A little bit of F1 action, a great Olympics segment (with a couple of footy shots thrown in), and then the Avatar trailer.

The image is as vibrant as you get at 3D cinema, with pinsharp HD to boot.

If they can slim the goggles down, and reduce the goggles weight, then I'm sold :thumbsup: Thankfully I think I'll have some time to save up before they release a screen which will actually fit in the space I have! Apart from the 100"+ set I saw today, the other size planned at this stage is 50".
 

fastgaz

Established Member
i also went to the bull ring today and was very impressed with the f1 car and the olympics , not so with avatar but it still looked good , although it was impresive to see it is a bit of a pain to wear the glasses and i think it will take a couple of years or so to get to the point where no glasses are required . so untill then ill be keeping my money in the bank..
 

mmw109

Established Member
Doesn't LCD exploit polarisation for turning pixels on and off already ? So couldn't a normal 100 Hz 1080p screen still display a 50Hz 1080p 3D image without having to have shuttered glasses - I think this would require it to switch the polarisation of the backlight on each alternate frame ?
 

golden phoenix

Distinguished Member
im really interested in the developing 3d tvs...im just wondering what the cost for a new panasonic full hd 3d tv will cost..my guess is ..it will be expensive...HD is just about becoming accepted in this country as mainstream across the board..

then they bring in a new tech and possible different types of 3d again..instead of agreeing A standard...didnt they learn anything from blu-ray / hd dvd war? guess not
 

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