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Quest for perfect bass.....

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by Mroizouk, Jan 11, 2005.

  1. Mroizouk

    Mroizouk
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    I've got a B+W ASW 675. For the most part it's excellent, but as a bass fiend I sometimes find it lacking in outright extension and find that I come up against its limits when I push it hard. For all B+W's top-notch engineering, I find myself reminded that it is a small driver in a small box driven by a big amp and clever EQ.
    I tried the D.I.Y route with a CV Stroker 18" driver in massive MDF box, driven by a buttkicker 1000w amp but I didn't like the sound.
    I've read a lot about SVS subs on these pages, I'm very interested in the PC-ultra 16-46. I listen to A LOT of music on my system.
    I've also considered a second 675, a 750, and also the bigger REL subs even though I can't afford them.
    Would any sage minds out there care to give me your thoughts?
     
  2. Stonedragon

    Stonedragon
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    I have only two words of wisdom for you Mroizouk....... B&W 850 :D :D :rotfl:
     
  3. Ian J

    Ian J
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    If you are finding that the B&W ASW675 lacks outright extension I doubt whether adding a second one will give you what you are looking for.

    I think that you need to look at something physically larger whether from the B&W, SVS or another manufacturer' range.
     
  4. Nimby

    Nimby
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    Unless I'm mistaken there isn't (yet?) an SVS 16-46 Ultra in the range.

    There is a PCi and a Plus model. The SS Ultra cylinder in wood-veneer is similar in overall size to a 16-46 but rather (very) expensive and rather (very) desirable.

    The advantage of each ascending model in the range is greater SPL (loudness) and absolute extension (depth) than the next one down.

    The PC Ultra (in only 20-39 size) should go nearly as deep as the 16-46PCi but offer at least 10dB @ 20Hz over the 16-46. If 115+dB @ 20Hz is enough for you. Then you have a target to aim for.

    The Ultra models are considered to offer better sound quality than the cheaper cylinder models.

    Having actually heard the ASW 675 I know what you mean. I bought my 16-46PCi immediately after listening to the B&W 675 and consider there is really no comparison. Particularly in size!

    For music I would not personally use a '675 on sound quality alone. It sounds much too warm despite its ability to go loud. The one I heard on demo added rather obvious higher harmonics to all the fundamentals. Fine for AV if you don't mind warm thunks, bangs and wallops though. I doubt most owners would even notice in all the excitement.

    Nimby
     
  5. juniper

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    When I was changing my sub I demo'd the B&W 675, amongst others, and then bought the SVS PB12/Plus 2 blind. You may say that I'm unable to compare the two having not heard them both in the same environment, but I'd argue the case pretty well! I can obviously only talk from personal experience, but if you are looking for extension, and headroom (I have a dedicated 28 x 16 room, and I cannot get close to stretching the SVS' capabilities) then look no further.

    When I heard e.g. the sonic gun scene from Minority Report on the ASW 675 it was pretty good. I should say it was being 'pushed' also as it was part of a fairly good system driven by a Pio Ax10 Ai-S played at 0dB in a very small demo room. I got to play with the gain too. When I play the same scene in my (probably six times by volume) room, with the scene played at about -15dB, sub set at -3dB, gain at 1/4 to 1/3, the bass from the blast of the gun hits you in the chest as if it were fired at you, and you feel, well just exhilirated. My sub is tuned to 20Hz. with one port plugged. If I unplug and go to 25Hz, I have to turn down the gain and the gun blast can be felt throughout the whole house. Awesome :thumbsup:

    Before I get knocked here, I can only say that I have qualified my response based upon different environments, equipment etc., and so I know it is apples and pears. But to answer the question as put, if you want spades of extension and the ability to push as hard as you (or me at least :) )could ever want to, then I would heartily recommend the SVS above the ASW 675.

    Just my opinion of course. And call me an SVS fanboy if you wish - doesn't bother me :D :p
     
  6. Andywilliams

    Andywilliams
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    Hi
    I used to own the B&W asw675 and it is a very good small subwoofer but if size isnt an issue i would think about getting a svs.I brought my svs 20-39 pc+ about 18 months ago at a cost of £800,you can now get one for around £600 and the difference between both subs is easy to feel.The svs is tighter very musical and goes much deeper than the asw675 it will make you smile with its performance and what you paid for it.
    Cheers Gonzo. :)
     
  7. Nimby

    Nimby
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    Dear Fan Boy :devil:

    Just to qualify my own post:

    My own B&W ASW 675 demo was in a large open-plan dealer's showroom. Minimum of 40 feet by 40 feet, perhaps even more?

    My own attic listening room is open-plan over two floors of roughly 30 feet x 18 feet area, over a similar sized lounge below, via open stairwell between the two.

    I think the spaces are similar enough to offer a reasonable comparison.

    My impression of the B&W was great loudness with a strong sense of forced pressure. I was sitting very close to it.

    My SVS at home offers effortless loudness, depth and clarity. Bass waves stroll across the room to my listening seat about 10 feet away.

    Sitting near the cylinder is very hard work above 75-80dB on music! It vibrates everything, including me. My computer desk, only four feet away, shakes like a diesel engine cover on an old lorry. The floor feels like I'm in the lorry!

    I simply cannot imagine anyone sitting close to my SVS for films! They'd turn into a quivering mass of jelly! You'd need a shovel to clean up the mess! :blush:

    Regards
    Nimby
     
  8. Beastie Boy

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    This sub is currently at the top of my 'to buy' list, partly because I have to integrate it into what will be both a cinema room and a dining room, which pretty much rules out those huge SVS subs. When you say it lacks extension, do you mean goes too quiet at the lower frequencies? Does this only show when driving it really hard or does it spoil the sound at more moderate volumes as well?

    Could you also indicate what size room you are using and where the sub is positioned within the room (eg corner).

    As size is a consideration for me, would you still recommend this sub on a size/performance balance, or are there better alternatives for similar money?

    Ant advise greatly appreciated.

    Cheers, Beastie.
     
  9. Andywilliams

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    Hi Beastie
    My lounge is 16x14 and the asw675 performed very well it still is a very good sub compaired to the competition rel etc so dont become dissolutioned it doesnt go has loud or low as the svs but for its size and looks is a good choice.
    Cheers Gonzo.
     
  10. Nimby

    Nimby
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    I thought this was a quest for perfect bass? :devil:

    Nimby
     
  11. Beastie Boy

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    Thanks Gonzo, that certainly helps. My room is almost the exact same volume as yours at 17'x13'. I'm hoping that this sub will provide good response for music listening, and still be able to deliver 'feelable' (is that a word?) bass for movies and effects.

    True, but after the WAF is factored in, it inevitably results in some compromise :(

    Cheers, Beastie.
     
  12. Kazman

    Kazman
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    In which case you should take a serious look at the Quad L Subwoofer, MJ Acoustics Reference 200 and B&W ASW750.

    My money is on the Quad L Sub being the front runner, awesome sub for the money with the MJA Ref 200 not too far behind. The ASW750 is a cracking sub, but is expensive.

    The Quad L Subwoofer has an rrp of £700, the MJ Ref 200 an rrp of £650 and the ASW750 I believe has a price tag of £1200.
     
  13. Mroizouk

    Mroizouk
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    Beasty Boy- the B+W 675 gives seriosuly good performance for the money, and you can't argue with the unobtrusive size and aethetics of it. Its very powerful given the dimensions, and the bass extension thing is just a case of realising that every sub has limits. The thing defies the laws of physics pretty well to get as low as it does. I've listened to it in several rooms and it always performs well with films and music. It's tuneful but it'll rumble too. Plus, I've found B+W to be excellent with customer service. You'd be hard pushed to find a compact sub that outdoes it.
    Kazman I'd be interested to hear a 750 against the 675.

    You're right nimby there's no ultra 16-46. So it's an ultra or a 20-39 or 16-46 plus. Ultra might be the best bet cos I'm worried the SVS won't be musical enough. Shame there's no link-out as well, cos a pair would be nice! (one day)

    Q: If you use a mono lead instead of a stereo one on a stereo sub-out, do you lose much signal (half of it) or not?
     
  14. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    If it's any use to know, the ASW750 stacks up extremely well vs the SVS PB/12 2 Plus, in a small room almost identical output, except the 750 rolls off steeply @ 20hz whereas the SVS keeps going. So it should, it's about 3 times the size :eek:
     
  15. Mroizouk

    Mroizouk
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    yeah, i know what to expect from B+W subs and speakers, Ive always found them excellent. I imagine the 750 delivers more of what the 675 does. I'm just concerned that the SVS units won't give the clean musical bass I desire, as I'm after audiophile quality too.
     
  16. Mroizouk

    Mroizouk
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    I don't care HOW big the sub is as long as it sounds right!

    an ASW 850 would be lovely, but I haven't the £. I bet it sounds phat
     
  17. Smurfin

    Smurfin
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    It does indeed :D

    re: SVS subs, I wouldn't be too worried about musical ability, the two I've owned previously were great with music:)
     
  18. Kazman

    Kazman
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    The PC Ultra I have is fantastic with music, tonally as well as impact, timing and drive.

    It is so clean and distortion free that one really does have to check the amount one paid for it. It's big yes, but oooohhhhhhh yes, does it sound good :D
     

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