Quality woes with Sony Vegas Movie Studio

rogs

Well-known Member
Reading through this thread simply reminds me why I decided to move away from discs, for my home video!:)

These days you can pick up a media player for less than £40 - something like this for example - Sumvision Cyclone Micro 3 Media Player - White: Amazon.co.uk: Hi-Fi & Speakers ..... no discs, no requirement to reduce quality, the option to keep and play your videos in one of several different formats (no need to convert and 'author' precisely as you need to do with DVDs or Bluray).
What's not to like?....
 

grahamlthompson

In memoriam
What's not to like?....

Portability. You can't really pop a hard disc in an envelope and send it to Aunty Gladys :D

No reason why you can't do both. A full quality file on a hard disc is easy to produce as part of the AVCHD/Blu-ray/DVD production process anyway.

Is the media player you linked to Level 4.2 compliant ? Most aren't so won't work with 1080p50/60 content.
 

rogs

Well-known Member
Portability. You can't really pop a hard disc in an envelope and send it to Aunty Gladys :D

No reason why you can't do both. A full quality file on a hard disc is easy to produce as part of the AVCHD/Blu-ray/DVD production process anyway.

Is the media player you linked to Level 4.2 compliant ? Most aren't so won't work with 1080p50/60 content.

In my case, 'Aunty Gladys' is my daughter and nephew :).. so either upload to Dropbox for them to download and play on their players, or, for bigger files, simply pop it onto an SD card or USB stick and post that (smaller envelope! :))

No, I don't think that player uses one of the new '50p' compliant chips ...I think that's still only the Popcorn Hour A400 at the moment...

Again, I don't use any 1080/50p footage, so not a problem for me.

What I do think is that my 720/50p footage, derived form 1080i, gives me all the 'smoothness' of a 50 'image' stream - that you get from either 50 fields, or 50 frames - and the advantage of progressive, so no interlacing artifacts.

OK, so not as impressive as 1080/50p of course - especailly on very big screens - but still way better than downconverting AVCHD to DVD quality!

Blu-ray?...hmmm....OK for pressed commercial copies of Hollywood blockbusters I guess, but still too expensive and 'finicky' for home videos, IMHO.

And the reason that Blu-ray burners and blanks are still quite dear, even after all this time, is because quite a lot of folk have decided to give discs a miss second time round for home videos.

With more home video from phone cameras-- and You Tube -- and downloading -- and media players....
Add to that Sony's obsession with Blu-ray licencing, keeping up the costs, and the format never really stood a chance in that particular market place.

As always, all only IMHO of course! :)
 

grahamlthompson

In memoriam
My aunty Gladys can just about manage to slot in a DVD into a DVD player. :rotfl:

No PC either :thumbsdow
 

rogs

Well-known Member
My aunty Gladys can just about manage to slot in a DVD into a DVD player. :rotfl:

No PC either :thumbsdow

Well -- you might be able to teach her how to slot an SD card into her new media player then -- although I have to accept that it's probably taken you the best part of 10 years to get her to to use the DVD instead of her old VHS machine....still, you've managed to get her to make the change once, so maybe?........:)

At least it would stop those phone calls when she says:

"Thank you for the new disc dear, but it won't play like the last one you sent me.
It does seem to work on Fred's machine next door though.
It does seem to be a slightly different colour, and it says '+R' on it where the old ones said '-R'.
Should that make any difference?......Fred says yes, his friend says no.....

...Oh, and by the way, the disc you sent me 2 years ago doesn't play properly any more. It used to play OK... I'm so confused dear.....
"

As you may be starting to detect, I'm not really a big fan of shiny spinning discs! :D
 

12harry

Distinguished Member
Have to say I agree with glt - DVDs are convenient and cheap-enough.

What I'm not understanding is why OP is having these difficulties. Provided my original footage is decent, I'm expecting the DVD will be pretty good, even though it migt lack some sharpness present in the original.

However, I'm intrigued by the Media-Player option ( rogs Post#27 ) as I'm guessing this will give me the fill HD-quality [ AVCHD ] without having to burn BD discs.... ( as the burners+Discs investment) are still a tad pricey for the marginal impovement.
Truth is I'd be better spending more (Time=money) on the Taking and Editing . . . . . . .



EDIT:- rogs . . . . I edit HD in MovieStudio v10, - Rendered to (dot)m2ts files. Annoyingly DVDAS doesn't support AVCHD burning . . . . and whilst I know it's possible to find alternative (free), software, it lacks the Menu feature that DVDAS produces. - So am I right thinking that a "media player" will just list the playable files, but without a Title, so I'd have to be careful to make the latest version of "Hols 2012"....so I don't show off the version where I had the lens cap on, er, briefly....

I wonder if you'd like to start a new thread on this Cyclone device, as I can scroll through to similar items at much higher prices, yet appear only to be different colour case as they still offer only 8G internal memory, which should be enough for one session at least.
Perhaps I could also ask . . . . . one "Review" that suggest it comes with AV feature so it is possible to connect to a SCART-enabled (older TV). I want to use an HDMI-out camcorder with a component mini-TV (as remote monitor)and wonder what my options are..... I know there are pro-HDMI input micro monitors . . . but they are hundreds of pounds. Maybe the Cyclone could be used to pass-thro' . . . ?
 
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arty tribe

Active Member
Just snuck in whilst the wife is not looking!

The interlacing is about the same, but crucially the linear movement is smooth.

Its hard typing this whilst hiding under the desk!

Thanks guys

I noticed whilst doing this that there is a button in Architect that says 'Reduce interlacing flicker' It was set to - off. Could this be the magic button? I didn't get time to try it yesterday, will have a go later. But how did you achieve the smooth linear motion?
 

grahamlthompson

In memoriam
I noticed whilst doing this that there is a button in Architect that says 'Reduce interlacing flicker' It was set to - off. Could this be the magic button? I didn't get time to try it yesterday, will have a go later. But how did you achieve the smooth linear motion?

Only used the standard presets as posted. Bog standard interlaced footage, if you watch digital SD TV it's the same as DVD. Mpeg2 compressed 720/704 x 576 interlaced but at a lower bitrate than you can use on a DVD. It should look as good as broadcast TV.
 

vkmast

Active Member
arty,
this is from DVD A Help
Select the box, click the (down arrow) button, and choose a setting from the drop-down list to turn flicker reduction on or off. Turn flicker reduction on when using still images that contain thin horizontal lines.

As suggested earlier, do compare the properties of your file with glt's comparison file and change if they are different and seem to give a better result. Test the results with a rewritable DVD (not in a computer player).

And try and change Full-resolution rendering quality to Best in MStudio Project properties / Video. (SCS KB: must use "Best" if you are using high resolution stills or video that are getting scaled down to the final output size.)

As for discs vs. HDDs, remember you probably want another HDD or other means to back up your files if you don't use discs.

Its hard typing this whilst hiding under the desk!
You do not have a desktop computer then :D
 
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rogs

Well-known Member
What I'm not understanding is why OP is having these difficulties. Provided my original footage is decent, I'm expecting the DVD will be pretty good, even though it migt lack some sharpness present in the original.

Although, as Graham says, you should be able to get near to 'broadcast quality' with a decently converted DVD, that is of course 'standard definition' broadcast quality.
It's still quite a big quality hit, when compared with the original HD footage

However, I'm intrigued by the Media-Player option ( rogs Post#27 ) as I'm guessing this will give me the fill HD-quality [ AVCHD ] without having to burn BD discs....

Yup --- that's really the point. You can edit your HD footage, as HD, and then export it -- in one of several different HD formats -- to replay, either on your computer, or using a media player. No discs involved....

But I think I may have hijacked this thread a bit with these comments. After all, the OP is trying to make a disc, not look for alternatives at this time.
Sorry about that! :blush:
 

grahamlthompson

In memoriam
I take a couple of usb hard discs on holiday and a tiny media player. The discs contain lots of content including 1080p24 Blu-ray rips. The usb drive will connect to my Asus 10" tablet, great for entertainment on long plane journeys. As I said once you have a edited HD file you can use both approaches. Shame DVD Architect 5 will only do pcm with HD content to Blu-ray or DVD blanks. Waste of a perfectly good ac3 5.1 track. It's a strange mixture of a very capable DVD authoring package let down. Why can't Sony release a patch enabling ac3, I wouldn't mind paying for the licence.
 

arty tribe

Active Member
Only used the standard presets as posted. Bog standard interlaced footage, if you watch digital SD TV it's the same as DVD. Mpeg2 compressed 720/704 x 576 interlaced but at a lower bitrate than you can use on a DVD. It should look as good as broadcast TV.

Tried using the magic button, but I noticed that every time I changed a setting, the Reduce interlacing flicker changed to off! In the end I don't think it made much difference.

I think I need to try and absorb all the info you guys have given me and play around some more. I feel I am close now. The main outstanding issue is non smooth linear movement.

I'm going to try to film in 1080/50p to see what happens ... If it stops raining.

Will try to get this done this week and report back.

Thanks for the support
 

arty tribe

Active Member
Once again, can't get over how helpful you guys are. Another issue, my wife has opened a poisonous email from one of her friends and I now have a virus to deal with.,,,,,, Never rains etc
 

arty tribe

Active Member
Virus under control (thanks Adaware) I have had a little play and found that I can 'Render as' and burn to HDD and the quality is everything you could ask for. Unfortunately I USED 'SONY AVC/MVC and AVCHD 1920/1080/50i so the file is still in AVCHD. When I import it into Architect I am back to sq 1. A whole lot of interlace issues. Tried every suggestion so far.

Downloaded a trial Powerdirector 11 to try it. Whereas Sony is over the top in terms of options, PD is the reverse, which would be nice if it worked, but the interlacing issue is just as bad if not worse. Is there any hope?
 

grahamlthompson

In memoriam
Virus under control (thanks Adaware) I have had a little play and found that I can 'Render as' and burn to HDD and the quality is everything you could ask for. Unfortunately I USED 'SONY AVC/MVC and AVCHD 1920/1080/50i so the file is still in AVCHD. When I import it into Architect I am back to sq 1. A whole lot of interlace issues. Tried every suggestion so far.

Downloaded a trial Powerdirector 11 to try it. Whereas Sony is over the top in terms of options, PD is the reverse, which would be nice if it worked, but the interlacing issue is just as bad if not worse. Is there any hope?

Time to buy a cheap Blu-ray player. You can then burn the 1080i file as is to a DVD blank using AVCHD format using free software.
 

arty tribe

Active Member
arty,
did you ever check the field orders (field dominance referred to by glt earlier)?
Or read this thread
CreativeCOW

Yes I did check the field order and it was upper first. Read the article, I think HD requires Interpolated de-interlacing, although I have tried both that and blend (And none).

I take your point about a BD player, but I am not looking for perfection, just something watchable. Other people seem to be able to produce acceptable quality onto DVD.

I think I am missing something somewhere, I can burn to HDD in good quality, but every time I move to 'Burn a disc' options, the compression kills it, and it becomes virtually unwatchable.

My problem with the non smooth linear movement has gone away, (problem is I don't remember what I did, I've changed so much)
My issue now is back to drastic interlacing issues.
 

grahamlthompson

In memoriam
No one has mentioned your TV could be influencing the interlacing issue.

Presuming you are using a LCD or Plasma display, the TV itself will de-interlace the footage and re-scale it to fit the on screen pixel count.

Assuming you have a full-HD TV, you are starting with 1920 x 1080 pixels, throwing away a load to get 720 x 576 in Movie Studio. Then you send your TV 720 x 576 pixels so it has to guess what the pixels that Movie Studio threw away were. You can see it's bound to make a big difference to the original HD footage.

Different TV's have different video processing engines, for example some double the frame rate by de-interlacing 50i into 25p and then creating intermediate frames by interpolation to double the frame rate to 50p.

All the double processing could well create the sort of problem you are seeing.

Does the DVD look bad played back on your PC ?

Firstly go through your TV menus and turn off all so called enhancement options. For instance if you have a 100Hz tv (frame doubling) turn that off.

If no improvement if you can upload a few raw clips (a couple of minutes of footage will do) I can have a look on my TV after following exactly what I did with my footage
 

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