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Quality CD reproduction on DVD players?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by gogs, Jun 21, 2004.

  1. gogs

    gogs
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    I am keen to replace my budget TOSHIBA SD330E with a DVD player capable of excellent CD reproduction. Does such a player exist under £1000?
    Otherwise I may stick with my Toshiba and buy a dedicated CD player.

    Can anyone give advice on the audio reproduction of CYRUS DVD players compared to their CD players?

    Cheers

    Gogs
     
  2. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    Possibly not the correct forum to be in but anyway.
    The answer is to yes to my mind and my nomination is the Primare DVD30 (which also handles DVD-A and SACD) for £900. It is beautifully built, has a great picture and CD replay good enough to ensure that Primare will probably not build another cheap CD player. I'm getting this in early before 10000000000000000 people nominate the Arcam DV78.
     
  3. nikyzf

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    Of course, it depends what you mean by "excellent" :eek:) , but the obvious candidates are the Arcam DV78 for £600 and the DV79 for £1,000. The DV79 will play DVD-A, unlike the DV78. Neither does SACD if that matters. I play a DV79 thru Linn amps and speakers and it sounds quite acceptable.

    There is an Arcam forum, of course, and a few threads on the DV79.
     
  4. JIT

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    Or the Arcam DV88+ or 89 which were available for £499 and £599 respectfully recently.
     
  5. gogs

    gogs
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    Apologies for placing this in the wrong forum.

    Thanks for the comments, I have yet to look at Primare, I will certainly check them out. Arcam do appear to be highly regarded, but have lost out to Denon in past challenges. However the components do seem to be quality and have a wide appeal.

    Gogs
     
  6. philipb

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    Denon 2900.
     
  7. bobbypunk

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    I found something that impressed me and I would really recommend
    The Roksan Caspian DVD which retails @ 1300 but is worth every penny IMO Seen better DVD pictures for less money. But CD playback destroyed cheaper players by enough to start giving it a serious chance.
     
  8. Dfour

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    I am very happy with my Limit dv900SE tuned by Cyrus for cd replay. It retails for £199. It wont be up to the level of the arcam/limit/denon but they cost 3-4 times the ammount. I had a Nad 541i and was happy witht the limits playback I sold the CDP:D
    http://www.limitelectronics.com/product_detail.asp?id=1
     
  9. russraff

    russraff
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    gogs

    I was asking myself this question myself, recently. I demoed a Denon 2900, 3800 and a £700 Marantz SA8400 CD player.
    What I found out was this: Unles you have a good amp, there is precious little a "good CD playing" DVD player improve. This is certainly the case with my Yamaha, so I also grabbed my mates Audiolab 8000S amp for a couple of days. Things improved greatly, but not because of the Denon players, rather the amp made the diference. The Denon players weren't a patch on the dedicated CD player, even the 3800 which was £1k when new. In fact, I reckon that the Denon players aren't a patch on CD players costing £400-500. Something like a Cyrus CD6 would be a better CD player than the Denon 2900.
    Of course, upgrading the DVD player also offers other benefits, but purely for CD replay, I would (and am) get a dedicated CD player; DVD players simply don't compare well, yet.

    Russell
     
  10. Crustyloafer

    Crustyloafer
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    It all depends on how you define 'Excellent CD Replay'. If it were me then not a single DVD player under £1000 gets remotely close to achieving that statement. If you want 'Acceptable CD Replay' then the following players are worth a listen.

    Arcam DV78/79

    Denon DVD2900 (Although God help you if anything goes wrong with it as Denon support is absolutely useless)

    Cyrus DVD8 (Is actually £1200 but you might be able to pick one up for less)
     
  11. Cameron

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    I would get a DV88+ for £499. It's an excellant cd player for a dvd player and will be miles ahead of anything else in that price category.

    CaM
     
  12. nikyzf

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    Found this review of the Cyrus DVD8
    http://www.whatvideotv.com/testbenc...v.com/cgi-bin/displayreview.php?reviewid=2912

    and Roksan Caspian DVD
    http://www.whatvideotv.com/testbenc...v.com/cgi-bin/displayreview.php?reviewid=2912

    I know reviewers can get things wrong, but the Roksan doesn't seem to offer enough for the money on the DVD side.
     
  13. bluesfan

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    I agree with russraff. I've yet to hear a dvd player that compares to a dedicated cd (even a cheap one). DVD players always seem to lack warmth, umph, whatever.
     
  14. gogs

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    Thanks everyone for the advice, this now gives me something to work with.
    Russell and Bluesfan have in a way confirmed what I suspected; that DVD players cannot perform as well as a dedicated CD unit. It is sometimes misleading when articles are printed suggesting that DVD players such as Cyrus are performing on the same stage as their CD counterparts.
    Anyway think I'll be searching for a separate CD player, but I will be sure to have a look at Arcam DVD players, as some have suggested.

    Gogs
     
  15. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    see if you can find a HK DVD25/2550 and have a listen, see what you think, and see if you are suprised.
     
  16. gogs

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    Thanks Hornydragon, for your suggestion,
    I have just checked out the HK DVD25 according to HI-FI CHOICE.
    The suggestion is that it excels at CD playing but DVD playback is lacking. I feel that this is the case with many players in this bracket. Finding a happy balance between quality CD and DVD playback seems to be the way. However as an avid music and film enthusiast, I feel my future lies in separate dedicated players.

    Gogs
     
  17. Andywilliams

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    Hi Gogs
    I recently sold my denon 2200 dvd player(crap at cd playback) as my old sony dvpns900v is just as good a performer picture wise on a 32 tv and sound wise on my av system so the sony got its old place back,With plasma and projectors i would imagine the denon would be better than the sony, the sony was much better at cd playback though.So if your using a tv for dvd i wouldnt spend more than £300 i doubt on a tv screen you would notice any difference between a 1k machine and a well built £300 machine.
    After waiting nearly 3 months i got my roksan caspian m series-1 cd player now when you hear a proper cd spinner it makes you realise just how crap dvd players are at playing cds the caspian is stunning and as really got me in to the hifi sound looks like iam going to be a little bit poorer in the coming months.
    Buy a well built dvd player for around £300 or even keep the tosh both my kids have one of these in there bedrooms and the picture quality is excellent(28" widescreentv) and put all your funds in to a decent cd player, nad cambridge audio and Arcam make some excellent cd players for around £300-£400 that will show many a dvd player how its done.
    Hope this helps Gonzo. :)
     
  18. gogs

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    Gonzo,

    Appreciate the info, I was very interested in the Caspian M series, even the older version received good reviews. It is a nice looking player. I agree with your comments about keeping my Toshiba, I do have a 32" widescreen and wondered if expensive DVD players would make that much difference compared to my Toshiba.
    Now it is deciding which dedicated CD player to choose. Does your Caspian handle CD/R's OK GONZO?

    Gogs
     
  19. Andywilliams

    Andywilliams
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    Hi Gogs
    Yes it plays cd-r ok i have tried a few.Thing is it sounds so good i keep buying cds for there much better quality which you really notice just brought ushers 8701 which sounds fantastic really well recorded mind the now 57 albums sound tinny in comparison thats the only downside you notice how well the discs been produced and theres a lot that arnt up to it :laugh: .
    Cheers Gonzo.
     
  20. gogs

    gogs
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    Gonzo

    I do have a large amount of CD/R 's so this is an important factor, however you should not admit to buying NOW 57 in a public forum!! And don't blame the kids. Anyway, will defintely look at the Caspian as per your recommendation. Have seen many superb reviews of this player and B&B HI-FI have one reduced to £599, which is impressive.
    Please don't tell me they have oak cone feet, as I might die.


    Gogs
     
  21. Andywilliams

    Andywilliams
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    Hi Gogs
    Its the wifes :D
    If you can get the caspian m series-1 for that price i would snatch there hand off.You do know that the m series -1 has been upgraded its had a new transport fitted plus a few tweaks done thats why ive had to wait so long for mine which i paid for at the beggining of april.
    Gonzo. :)
    Ps no oak cone feet.
     
  22. gogs

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    The one at the hi-fi store is an ex-demo, but it is an excellent price. Sometimes I think there is too much choice, as I was going for a Cyrus player. Now I don't know what to do. Only problem with Cyrus is the upgrades. I feel this is a bit of a money making exercise and intends to keep buyers brand loyal.
    I may have to do a comparison with the Caspian.

    Gogs
     
  23. russraff

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    Gonzo,

    Remind me again - what amp and speakers are you using with your Caspian CD?

    Gogs,

    Glad you have made the right decision in thinking of getting a dedicated CD player. As I said, I have been listening to several players, including an informal listen to the new Inca Katana (pic attached) deck at a local dealer. They always offer very impartial advice (the dealer is called Lintone Audio, actually) and accordig to him, the Inca is the best player up to a Cyrus 8. The Cyrus is 1000, but the Inca is "only" £600. The fact he was playing the Inca through a system with some £5000 Sonus Faber Cremona speakers, speaks volumes. Especially considering the volume of much higher priced CD decks they could have used...

    Since this wasn't a formal demo, I can't comment too enthusiastically, but it did sound very sweet, perhaps more Arcam in nature than Cyrus (Arcam warm and rich, Cyrus fast and dynamic). It was certainly a step above the £700 Marantz player I heard and a mile better than ANY DVD player I have heard.

    Russell
     

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  24. nikyzf

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    I don't know if the Roksan has improved since the review I mentioned earlier, but they gave it only 1/5 overall!

    In contrast, the Arcams, esp the DV79, really do deliver on both DVD and CD.
     
  25. jrpavel

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    Anyone got any insights as to why dedicated CD players are so much better than DVD players at CD playback. Surely both are effectively being used as transports only and will extract bits from the CD and push them across to the receiver, which which will do all the real processing.
     
  26. russraff

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    Nikyzf,
    “I don't know if the Roksan has improved since the review I mentioned earlier, but they gave it only 1/5 overall!”

    Wasn’t that the DVD player? I think gonzo is talking about the CD player – a completely different kettle of carp.

    jrpavel,
    "Surely both are effectively being used as transports only and will extract bits from the CD and push them across to the receiver, which will do all the real processing."

    No, that isn't strictly true. :lesson:

    The DAC's inside most CD players are better implemented than "in step" receivers and DVD players. I reckon this has to do with the overall cost of the other products and everything that they have to do, compared with a CD players relatively simple job. Additionally, most cheaply (and some more expensive) DVD players use the same crystal clock for CD and DVD replay. Since both tasks are completely different CD replay tends to suffer more obviously due to it's higher resolution. I don't know specifics, but I am sure that a techie from Arcam said this to be true when someone asked "...whether to use the DAC’s in the AV8 or [his] fmj CD player?". The answer was the CD player for the reasons above.

    It is for these reasons that a CD player should use its internal DAC's rather than a receiver’s, unless that receiver is so far ahead. I.e. a £200 CD player hooked up to a £2000 receiver.

    Russell
     
  27. Andywilliams

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    Hi Russ
    I have m&k 850s and svs subwoofer. The m&ks sound much better with music with the caspian cd player the treble is so much sweeter and the bass really tight and punchy overall a lot more dynamic and smoother sounding ,but i will still change the m/ks as i want to take things that bit further iam really starting to enjoy music again, Iam intrested in the spendor se series speakers thinking of stretching to the 8se as i can stick the harman kardons (avr8500) stereo performance while my wallet recovers then i will definitely demo intergrated amps because if iam going to shell out £1500 i want it to be a noticable improvement from the h/k.
    Cheers Gonzo.
    Ps was thinking of the avi lab intergrated.
     
  28. russraff

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    Or for something really different, you could go for the Naim NAC112x pre and NAP150x power combo (about £1500). I dunno what it is about Naim stuff that makes them different, but they are. I just have to make my mind up whether or not I like them...

    Russell
     
  29. nikyzf

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    I was referring to this. Sorry about the confusion!
     
  30. jrpavel

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    So using the DVD's DAC (and feeding it to an ADC in the receiver) will give a better result? I don't understand. The DVD/CD reader on my my is bit-accurate. Otherwise the data on my CD/DVDs would lead to corrupt files. Why are DVD players any different?
     

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