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QualiTV & Sammy (A big disappointment)

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Satfanni, Aug 4, 2004.

  1. Satfanni

    Satfanni
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    Hi Folks,

    Just had to get into High-def telly. Heard such good reports about the "awesome" picture quality from Euro 1080.

    Made enquiries about the QualiTV receiver and found that it was not compatible with my Sony 32" plasma.

    Ah well I thought (in for a penny...etc) so I decided to empty the piggy bank and invest in a High- Def ready TV as well as the QualiTV receiver.

    Purchased the Samsung LW32A23W 32" LCD. This is equipped with DVI and component inputs for High definition broadcasts.

    Was pretty excited therefore when the day came for installation. Expectations were extremely high. I too soon would be able to watch these reportedly "awesome" pictures.

    However the end result was such an anti-climax. Firstly the installer could not get me 1080 resolution pictures on my Sammy from either the Euro 1080 or Astra HD channels.

    I can only receive max resolution pictures of 720p-50 using the DVI connection. I can only receive max resolution pictures of 576p-50 using the component connection. Correct me if I'm wrong but is this not less resolution than the 625 lines currently being used by the standard broadcasters?

    Don't get me wrong, the picture quality is very good at these resolutions but awesome (I don't think so). I was so disappointed to have invested so heavily in equipment to view pictures at the highest resolution only to find that I can't presently receive/decode the 1080 signal at present.

    My installer is currently doing his best to resolve the matter for me. He is liasing with both QualiTV and Samsung to ensure that both units have the latest software to receive the 1080 signal . I have been waiting for nearly 2 weeks for this issue to be resolved.

    Another rather annoying feature of watching Euro 1080 or the Astra HD channel via the DVI input is the eratic appearance of a thin horizontal coloured line at the bottom of the screen. Having to put up with this is surely not what high-definition telly is all about. I have tried adjusting all the various settings on the QualiTV and Sammy boxes to no avail.

    Can anyone help me to resolve these issues? :lease: :lease: :lease:

    Thanks in advance for any help.

    Regards.

    Satfanni.
     
  2. zAndy1

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    I hate to say it but if you are serious about hidef viewing then I wouldn't have thought a 32" LCD display would be the best option anyway. Surely you would be much better off with a 42" plasma or something? It would seem the Samsung display is approx £1500, for another £600 odd you could have had a 42" panny plasma which I suspect would give you far superior results to the 32" LCD. Is it possible to swap the Samsung at all or was there another specific reason you wanted that display (room for 32" max for example?).

    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  3. Satfanni

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    Andy,

    I don't know where you got your valuation from but the the QualiTV and Panny combined came to £3200-00.

    I did not want plasma as I am of the opinion (rightly or wrongly) that picture quality is better on LCD. I think the picture quality on my Sammy is better than the Sony plasma that I still have.

    42" LCD displays are hard to come by and would definitely break the bank for me. Room is also an issue for consideration. Thus my reasons for the LCD route.

    The issue here is that I have a TV that is supposedly High-definition ready and I cannot receive these maximum resolution pictures. I am just looking for advice on how to receive the 1080 pictures, not 720, not 576.

    Thanks for taking the time to reply and again thanks in advance to others for any advice.

    Cheers.

    Satfanni.
     
  4. hornydragon

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    I think you have fallen foul of a DVI issue, i have euro 1080 running on a DLP PJ in our demo room and its is superb PQ (component) there was an issue i read about that the DVi out of the box was only capable of 720p which is Hidef! on a 7ft screen i cant see the difference between 1080i and 720p! Also there are no 1080 vertical res capable plasmas unless you count Alis screens! only a few PJ's and LCDs have 1080 res, 1920 x 1080. Is your samsung 1920x1080???? PS are you in the UK Sat fanni?
     
  5. Abit

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    Your LCD display would need to have a resolution of 1920 x 1080 as its native resolution for you to see true 1080. anything else is scaled down and with LCDs the result is a horribly soft picture.

    I'm not surprised your image quality is not so good. I have yet to see an HDTV LCD display impress me for image quality. In fact, most of them look horrible to me.

    Also, LCDs need to be shown at their native resolution or otherwise they go soft real quick. Same as with a laptop when you change your resolution from its native resolution. The picture goes very soft. Good HD Plasmas are like a night and day difference to HD LCDs, as are CRT.


    I know you don't want to hear this but you should have done your homework. The first thing I would have done was avoid LCD and instead would have looked at the HD plasmas and HD CRT displays. Remember also that not even any of the plasmas currently on the market can show true 1080 resolution because none of them have resolution that high.

    Still, the best of those available will still give you a much, much better picture than any LCD. Best overall, for the time being, is an HD crt display which will show 1080 in all its glory. With the proper model and proper signal and setup you will get those awesome HD images.

    Can you return the TV? :oops:
     
  6. Bernard Barnett

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    Satfanni, I don't understand why the box is "not compatible" with your Sony plasma. It's an Alis screen perfectly capable of displaying 1080i images. I have a JVC d-theater player connected to mine for high-definition tapes and the picture quality is awesome.
     
  7. zAndy1

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    Satfanni,
    Well assuming the qualitv box is £550 with a Euro1080 card then an (admittedly SD) panny plasma would have added £2100 to that (see these very forums) which is a bit less than £3200 and I suspect would yield better results despite it not being a HD set than the LCD you have. Granted getting a HD plasma bumps the price up quite a bit (probably talking at least £3500 then) but the results would be spectacular I assure you. Anyway, hope you get this resolved to your satisfaction but I suspect you will have to accept to compromise if you keep the LCD set.

    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  8. Satfanni

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    Thanks Guys for all the advice.

    I guess I will just have to wait and see what develops.

    I purchased the equipment specifically for HD 1080 broadcasts. The supplier is quite aware of this fact and has also accepted that so far the receiver and telly have failed to deliver the promised results.

    I have been dealing with this supplier for a long time and have given him plenty of trade down the years. I am therefore confident that he will change the telly for me (if all else fails). He has indicated as much.

    Anyway thanks again to all for the advice.

    Regards.

    Satfanni.

    I'll try to keep smiling :D :D :D
     
  9. Hellicopter

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    Firstly I can well understand your disappointment, not least because the hi def channels on Astra 19e via the Qualitv Box are stunning on my Sagem Dlp .

    The advice to try and change your LCD has got therefore to be correct though to what is not easy.
    Increasingly in the USA , DLPs are becoming the the first choice for HD and Samsung will shortly release the first 1080p DLP TV there.

    In the UK ,the DLP choice is more limited.Sagem is only sold by Comet but Thomson and Samsung are due to release examples in the Autumn.

    As regards Plasma bear in mind the burn-in problem and ensure that the resolution is at least 1280 by 768.(Of course a 720p picture will be scaled to 768 as indeed the LCD does.)

    To understand more on displays I recommend you download a BBC Research paper published in June 2004 from their site.

    On my Sagem , there really is very little difference between 720p and 1080i and much of the US HD broadcasts are in 720p.

    Re the Sat box the following may help.

    -The manufacturer released some new downloadable software about 4 weeks ago , designed to improve display of the Astra HD demo channel.

    -The Astra channel is 60hz refresh rate (as in the States ) whilst the Euro 1080 channel is in 50hz (as in Europe)

    -In 50 hz ,the box will only output via the DVI output a 720p display.In 60hz it will output a 1080i picture in addition.

    -576i lines is the same res as the UK PAL sytem (not less)

    -576p will be better than 576i but not as good as 720p.

    -The bottom line you referred to maybe because the TV is under scanning and may be adjustable in the TV service menu.

    Hope the above helps.Keep pushing it.It is worth it!

    Alan
     
  10. Satfanni

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    Cheers Alan.

    You have given me much to think about.

    Please don't think me stupid but what exactly is DLP (Digital Laser Panel??????)

    Is DLP more expensive than LCD and Plasma?

    Regards.

    Satfanni.
     
  11. hornydragon

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    DLP is digital Light projection IIRC uses Texas instuments DMD chips (Digital micromirror device) technology and used in RPTV an PJ not flat panel displays.
     
  12. Satfanni

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    Thanks for info m8 :smashin:

    It's amazing what you learn on this forum.
     
  13. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Yep it is! where abouts are you? as i can offer HiDef Euro 1080 demos now! :D
     
  14. Abit

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    I don't know about that. I tend to doubt that very much. I do know that the best images come from CRT and Plasma, with CRT the only type capable of displaying 1080 resolution, and at the best prices. I have yet to see any projection type TV come close to the quality of CRT and Plasma with HD. Just imagine when 1920x1080 plasmas come out.

    If I were the original poster I would have looked into getting a Sony XBR fine pitch CRT HD display, or even one of their cheaper models, if they are available in the UK. There is one model I saw the other day that was a much cheaper version and the images were stunning.

    Not true. Most are 1080.

    Your screen does not show the difference because it can't since it does not have a high enough resolution.
     
  15. Hellicopter

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    Abit-How I envy your certainty in life.
    However you do need to understand that the Uk market is nothing like as developed as the USA.
    Here there are no Hi Res CRTs available ( though I am not certain about this)
    Choice is limited to LCD, DLP and Plasma.
    So please help us understand about burn in on Plasmas and geometry and convergence on CRTs.
    Look forward to your reply.

    Alan

    PS ABC and Fox v. NBC and CBS sounds like 2 - 2.
     
  16. Laura

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  17. Satfanni

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    I live in Belfast.

    Any demos available in this area?
     
  18. David PluggedIn

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    Hi Sat
    Have to agree with pretty much everything that has been said - when you see Euro1080 it looks simply amazing, the detail is just incredible (running 720p in to a 1280x720 lcd projector for example)
    The issue you have is that if you want to be able get the real benefit of HD then you really need a bigger screen anyway, 32" is at the lowest end of the screen size scale to be able to appreciate the added detail.
     
  19. hornydragon

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    not that i know of mate sorry.
     
  20. Abit

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    No problem Alan. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before all that stuff makes its way over. Considering that the UK likely imports more American programming than any other country HD here can only accelerate HD there. :)

    I don't own a plasma so I really can't give you any personal experience on burn in, though I've never noticed it on any models in the stores running the same demos over and over again. Hopefully, at the very least, it will contribute to getting rid of those annoying station icons. :)

    As for the CRTs, the quality varies among them just as it does with standard definition TVs. It's all a matter of doing your homework and reading enough reviews from the pros and users alike and ideally sampling the quality firsthand.

    The other day I saw an inexpensive 4:3 HDTV from one of the lesser reputable brands and it had a very impressive picture, better than some more expensive models. One interesting thing it did very well was show standard definition programming with a very high quality picture, better than watching it on a standard definition TV. It was only $400. :)

    The best pictures that I have seen so far have come from Sony, both in CRT and Plasma. Sony has always been a favorite manufacturer of mine since they always put out some really innovative high quality products. Coincidently, they also make the best LCD displays. Take a look a one of the newer Sony XBrite widescreen laptops with the 1920x1200 resolution display running at that native resolution. The detail, brightness, and color are incredible. Looking at that relatively small screen gives one an idea of the quality that is sure to come to much larger LCDs.


    Ah, but there are many other HD channels. Even for free ones, like those you mentioned, there are a few more. If you were to subscribe to the right satellite service you could get, including the usual free networks and other stations, at least 45 HD channels, last time I checked. And most of the material is 1080. :)
     
  21. Abit

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  22. Abit

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    Sure the bigger you go in screen size the more impressive it can be, like when you blow up a picture from larger photographic or movie film, but you really can see the difference, a startleing difference, even in a small display. I saw a CRT HD display as small as 24 inches, I believe it was, that was amazing.

    Remember also that if you can see and appreciate a very high resolution in your computer monitors, CRT or LCD, then the same will go with one that small for HD. The increased detail will still be there but the pixels will simply be smaller.
     
  23. Satfanni

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    Hi Folks,

    One of my questions when I started this thread was how to get rid of an annoying thin horizontal coloured line at the very bottom of the picture when viewing 720p-50 via the DVI connection.

    I have tried all sorts of picure adjustments to the QualiTV receiver and Sammy to no avail. Surely this can be corrected and is not something I'll have to live with? The picture just needs to be moved down a tiny fraction and the line will disappear but how do I do this?

    Once again any advice will be much appreciated and a big thanks to all who have already posted their views on this subject.

    Just as an afterthought, Sky TV launch their HD service in 2006. It would be nice to know your views on this.

    Regards.

    Satfanni.
     
  24. simoncope

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    Actually I doubt it. Europe seems to be heading down the road of HD flat panels (at the moment, plasma & LCD, but probably LCD will win out in a couple of years), and LCD or DLP rear projection. All manufacturers supplying Europe are winding down their CRT divisions, so we won't be seeing HD direct-view CRTs over here IMHO. The only RP CRT stuff you'll see will be custom built.
     
  25. Abit

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    I'm sure you will since CRT offers by far the best performance to price ratio and is the only current technology in widespread use that can display 1080. Assuming HD starts taking hold in the UK in a year or two I can't see how they would not be sold since I think they will likely still offer the best value and appeal to the average consumer, at least until prices for other types of displays drop in a very substantial way. It would be the ideal way for manufacturers to show what HD can do and at at reasonable price, all translating into quick sales and early adoption and, of course, setting in motion the wheels that will help push along other emerging and possibly more advanced technologies. I don't see 1920x1080 plasmas, when they are released, and 1920x1080 LCDs being so cheap, at least for a while, for the average person to consider in a meaningful way. And it is that average, low to medium price range, consumer that fuels most markets.
     
  26. hornydragon

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    problem is Europe (the whole continent) has one TV station at 1080i and no prerecorded media legally available!!!!!
     
  27. Abit

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    Isn't your Sky supposed to be introducing HD by next year? I would think much of the programming, at least initially, will come from America, Australia maybe. The material is there.
     
  28. simoncope

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    Yes, the material is there, but only the technically-minded early adopters are able to get at it (either by illegally downloading it, or importing DVHS machines and tapes from the States). Euro1080 is still in its infancy, and is likely to get overtaken by Sky (if) they start broadcasting HD like they have promised in 2006.

    I'm sorry, but you really don't know the European TV market. By the time the mass market realises it wants HDTV sets (i.e. when Sky starts to market it to them), there really won't be a CRT market in Europe, let alone an HD one. One crucial factor you are forgetting is the size of European homes compared with yours on the other side of the pond. TV size really is important here, and less (depth) is most definitely more.

    The market for 720 capable LCD TVs is really starting to take off now - and that's just people buying them for normal TV and DVD.
     
  29. Abit

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    So you are sceptical that HD will even take off, at least in the UK? Personally, I think it will take off in the UK like no other place in Europe simply because of the American connection, both commercial and cultural, that the UK has.

    And, like I mentioned, when that does happen do you think the average consumer, the one that truely fuels growth of most markets, is going to be able to afford 1920x1080 plasmas and LCDs? Sure, you can buy a 720 LCD display but what's the point if you can't view 1080 material? Besides, most of the current LCD displays are lousy showing HD material. In most cases I'd say beyond lousy.

    Affordability will eventually happen with such products but I don't think within a year or so. CRT would be the way to go and CRT HD displays are no bigger than a current CRTs that most Europeans already have.
     
  30. simoncope

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    No, I am not sceptical that HD will take off in the UK - where do I say that? I am sceptical of anything that Sky promises, but that is natural for most people in the UK :laugh:

    You're missing the main point that I am making - there won't be any manufacturers prepared to make HD CRT sets for Europe. They are all winding down production. Sharp (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) recently closed a CRT plant in Wales, Loewe has all but announced that they will stop producing CRT inside 2 years etc etc.

    The price drop in LCD TV is a lot nearer than people think, and it is going to be a biggie. The main manufacturers are all switching over to LCD production, and it won't be long before the lower costs associated with mass production mean lower retail prices.
     

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