Q2 vs G2 vs Index

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member

Just incase people missed it. A lot of us have been debating and a lot of Oculus fans were speculating the Q2 would come close to the G2 visuals.

From the video above, its pretty clear the G2 is better at everything than the Q2 with the Index only having the edge in vertical FOV, horizontal FOV and refresh rate.

The Index beats the Q2 in most use-cases (but the margins are very small) apart from SDE, and trades blows in some games re: sharpness (I think the Q2 looks a bit better in Assetto but worse in others, sadly the poor colours don't help).

SDE: G2 > Q2 > Index
Sharpness: G2 > Index >/= Q2 (I thought Index looked better in most use cases except Assetto Corsa)
Compression: G2=Index >>> Q2 (very obvious in the snellen test)
Black levels G2 > Index >>>Q2 (as evidenced by the DCS test, the sky on the Q2 is very very grey and lets remember neither the G2 or Index have perfect blacks to begin with
Colours: G2 > Index >>>Q2
Vertical FOV: Index>>>G2 >Q2
Horizontal FOV: Index >>G2 >Q2
Refresh rate and motion: Index >>> G2 >>>>>>Q2 (until we get the 90hz update which has been confirmed to sacrifice further graphical fidelity)

So overall, I'd say its some interesting findings which were all in line with what I personally predicted. I don't want to toot my own horn too much. I've owned the Rift S, Quest, Index so it was fairly easy for me to speculate and come to clear conclusions unlike the fanboys who have set up camp in each different hardware developers dungeon.

Whats sad is this that is over the link cable, so the PCVR wireless virtual desktop solutions are likely EVEN worse. Still for the money, its good to see the Q2 is holding its own against far more expensive headsets, albiet the fact its obviously wasting some of its panel by not being able to fully take advantage of it. More dissapointing for the Q2 is Oculus continuously using poor contrast, poor black level LCD panels whilst Valve and HP are using far more superior options.

On the G2 front, it looks like an upgrade in nearly everything. Its clarity now has to become a benchmark for what we need in VR from the PC side of things.
The Q2 is also a benchmark for what we expect in portable VR, alas with no real competition.

Overall, I give the win clearly to the G2 but its amazing that nearly 18 months after the Index's release, it is still holding its own with the newer headsets. I guess in the VR market, it is kind of true that buy cheap, buy twice. Similarly the Q2 for the money is absolutely great, considering it gives visuals around a Valve Index, albiet with far worse colours, refresh rate, last generation controllers, compression artifacts BUT it does have the option of untethered portable VR for smaller games (sadly this comes with the poorer visuals). Its also still clearly the best adult VR entertainment device as it doesn't have a cable so you can take it to bed. *logs onto amazon and orders one*

My biggest take home message for myself is that HP have set a new standard not just for sharpness and clarity but for what we should come to expect from LCD panels on VR headsets. The colours simply look gorgeous. Valve need to take note, and obviously Oculus have a lot of homework to do if they want to match either the Index or G2 colours.

Whats very obvious is you are getting excellent value, no matter which headset you've gone with. If you bought an Index 18 months ago, you still have a top-tier VR headset which goes toe to toe and beats the competition in multiple parameters. If you buy a Q2, you're getting fantastic value on a versatile headset which can be portable and the G2 is the next evolution in VR visual fidelity with the best in class audio system in situ.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
*Sorry if this ruffles anyone's feathers. Tried to be as impartial as possible but can't please everyone :D*

I said this a year ago too.. but Oculus are clearly so far away from still beating the Index headset in every single spec department. I envisage, that even ignoring the Index controllers, it'll take them potentially 24-48 months to have a headset which clearly beats the Index in every single parameter.
 
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No feathers ruffled here. It's pretty much what I expected. The Quest 2 looks like it beats the Index in a few cases but is let down by latency and artifacts, but as time goes on the latency and artifacts will be reduced.

When you consider how cheap it is it compares to the other headsets pretty well.

I still won't be getting one unless I get a result with my Plevin claim, I'm more than happy with my Rift S for now and am prioritising my motion simulator over another headset until I get that cash from my Plevin claim.

Like I've said before the Index and G2 are better headsets, but are they more than twice as good or more than three times as good as the Quest 2..? I'd say not.

The G2 is looking REALLY good though.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
No feathers ruffled here. It's pretty much what I expected. The Quest 2 looks like it beats the Index in a few cases but is let down by latency and artifacts, but as time goes on the latency and artifacts will be reduced.

When you consider how cheap it is it compares to the other headsets pretty well.

I still won't be getting one unless I get a result with my Plevin claim, I'm more than happy with my Rift S for now and am prioritising my motion simulator over another headset until I get that cash from my Plevin claim.

Like I've said before the Index and G2 are better headsets, but are they more than twice as good or more than three times as good as the Quest 2..? I'd say not.

The G2 is looking REALLY good though.


Sadly I'd say they are worth the money if you can afford them. The Index has a £300 one time fee to get access to the light house tracking system. After that, upgrades become cheap. If we'd went down the Vive route rather than Oculus, the Index would look like a fantastic deal. Its not Valve's fault that you and myself decided to place faith in Oculus, only for them to burn us and say our constellation trackers are worthless pieces of crap moving forwards.

At this point in time both headsets offer:

1. Better Refresh rate
2. Better blacks
3. Better Colours
4. Infinitely better audio (this is massive to me as a HT enthusiast and the fact that the Oculus audio is not as good as a £20 bluetooth speaker or £20 headphones)
5. Better comfort, fit, ergonomics
6. A real physical IPD for alignment for sharpness
7. Premium cloth level comfort for the face gaskets
8. Magnetic face gaskets
9. Better FOV
10. No compression artifacts
11. Less required processing power whilst having a substantially better experience

and the Index goes farther with
1. Next generation controllers
2. Finger tracking
3. Better input methods
4. Even more refresh rate options
5. Substantially better FOVs
6. Best in class perfect tracking

and in the G2's case
1. Photorealistic resolution
2. Even better blacks and colours
3. Poorer controllers
4. Poorer tracking



People keep saying tetherless VR but my experience with the Q1 is the tetherless VR experiences apart from Superhot were awful, pooped down versions of the games with terrible visuals and framerate issues. Horrible PS1/Ps2 level textures etc. etc. Oculus even say in their developer conferences the textures are pretty awful. They replace god knows how many textures with one awful rubbish looking one.
 
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kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
The issue with VR is we are at an infantile stage where small improvements make MASSIVE differences. Just look at the clarity difference between the CV1 and Rift S for example and how it bettered the experience. Add in everything the Index (or G2) have to offer and its that order of magnitude of improvement to the VR experience.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Fab stuff.
But tethered vr?
Ugh, no thanks.



I agree, the tether has to go at some point. But not for one moment am I prepared to accept the disgustingly poor visual quality, textures, framerates, crapper games which the Quest ecosystem can just about manage.

HTC have a solution with their wireless tech. I hope Valve can move it forwards. Oculus seem to not be bothered and will prefer a cheaper more mainstream wifi based solution with compromises.
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
G2 looks fantastic and I’m sure people who are getting it in November will have a great Christmas.

But my next headset needs to have the resolution/PPI of the G2 and another 20FoV over my current Index. With zero glare.
 

Thug

Moderator
Great video, but looks like the pricing structure is way off.
Going by the video, the Oculus is the cheaper one, the Index next and the G2 the top tier HMD.
For the price of the Index you can get the Oculus and the G2 and have the best of both worlds (a no brainer).
The index is clearly still a great HMD, but a little long in the tooth showing its age when it comes to price 'v' experience.

On a side note, people keep mentioning full finger tracking. Is this actually being used by anything yet? Genuine question as i have never used it and don't recall anyone mentioning that its required in a game or that a game is far better due to it. Is it not just one of those 'bragging points' that people use but there is no real use for it in the real (virtual) world?
Its been out a few years now, so surely there must be something (not referring to being able to give someone the finger in social games).
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Great video, but looks like the pricing structure is way off.
Going by the video, the Oculus is the cheaper one, the Index next and the G2 the top tier HMD.
For the price of the Index you can get the Oculus and the G2 and have the best of both worlds (a no brainer).
The index is clearly still a great HMD, but a little long in the tooth showing its age when it comes to price 'v' experience.

On a side note, people keep mentioning full finger tracking. Is this actually being used by anything yet? Genuine question as i have never used it and don't recall anyone mentioning that its required in a game or that a game is far better due to it. Is it not just one of those 'bragging points' that people use but there is no real use for it in the real (virtual) world?
Its been out a few years now, so surely there must be something (not referring to being able to give someone the finger in social games).


You are ignoring the other positives of the Index. It has best in class tracking, best in class vertical FOV, best in class consumer grade horizontal FOV, best in class audio, multiple refresh rates, best in class controllers which are 2-3 years ahead of the competition and best in class tracking accuracy.

I do agree with you that the Index headset looks like it could do with a price cut but the controllers are going to hold their value as nothing else comes close. The lighthouses I thought would have become cheaper to manufacture too.

There is more to VR than just visual fidelity although I do agree, its a big part of it.

The finger tracking is another layer of immersion. Before I bought Index I thought it was a gimick but its not. Your fingers are in VR. You pick up objects like you do in real life. YOu can pick up a bullet with your index and pinky finger. Its supported in lots of games. Even without the finger tracking, you can let go of the controller and it stays on our hand whilst still being ergonomic (if it fits you). It has loads of input methods which are all fantastic IMO.

Also the grip button which you have ona n oculus controller IS the handle. Its REALLY cool. When I played robo recall I was always used to grabbing the grip button to grab a gun.. but in VR with index controller.. u just.. grab the gun. literally. Its a game changer and something so simple but so intuitive.

In bone works I'm actually grabbing walls and pushing myself against them or away from them...

Basically its a generational (or two generational) leap in controller input methods for VR which is very very very important as it adds another layer of immersion.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
God i type so much. I do think Index needs a price drop tho. Surely the headset is still not as expensive as it is to produce as before.
 
Great video, but looks like the pricing structure is way off.
Going by the video, the Oculus is the cheaper one, the Index next and the G2 the top tier HMD.
For the price of the Index you can get the Oculus and the G2 and have the best of both worlds (a no brainer).
The index is clearly still a great HMD, but a little long in the tooth showing its age when it comes to price 'v' experience.

On a side note, people keep mentioning full finger tracking. Is this actually being used by anything yet? Genuine question as i have never used it and don't recall anyone mentioning that its required in a game or that a game is far better due to it. Is it not just one of those 'bragging points' that people use but there is no real use for it in the real (virtual) world?
Its been out a few years now, so surely there must be something (not referring to being able to give someone the finger in social games).

There's not a great deal of support from developers from ANY sort of finger tracking in terms of gameplay. My main project, Nakamura's Fall VR, is going to have doors opened with a thumbprint and flicking switches with the index finger but otherwise there isn't going to be a use of finger tracking.

Half Life Alyx is the only game that I know of that fully utilises the tracking and gripping with all fingers, the vast majority of games using the Index controllers have wiggling individual fingers for the sake of wiggling individual fingers. Unless a developer is targeting a specific headset's features (like me with the Rift) they tend to code for the lowest common denominator (Vive and WMR controllers) and stop there. You get a few exceptions to this rule here and there but generally developers will do the bare minimum because we're mostly a lazy bunch of bastards lol :laugh::rotfl:
 

scotthillier

Active Member
Not so much a case of wiggling fingers as it is using your fingers like you would in real life.
I.e. pick up a grenade, make a throwing motion, releasing the grenade by taking your fingers off the object.
Do that with any other controller and the controller flies out of your hand.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
There's not a great deal of support from developers from ANY sort of finger tracking in terms of gameplay. My main project, Nakamura's Fall VR, is going to have doors opened with a thumbprint and flicking switches with the index finger but otherwise there isn't going to be a use of finger tracking.

Half Life Alyx is the only game that I know of that fully utilises the tracking and gripping with all fingers, the vast majority of games using the Index controllers have wiggling individual fingers for the sake of wiggling individual fingers. Unless a developer is targeting a specific headset's features (like me with the Rift) they tend to code for the lowest common denominator (Vive and WMR controllers) and stop there. You get a few exceptions to this rule here and there but generally developers will do the bare minimum because we're mostly a lazy bunch of bastards lol :laugh::rotfl:

Sorry but just no.

even playing robo recall, a game not supported by the index, is much better using the index controllers.

I’m actually grabbing the guns in VR whilst on my rift or quest I was pressing a grip button lol


you are talking about something you haven’t experienced and these types of uninformed opinions on a device they haven’t used is why index users like atmos end up being so aggressive sounding when they try to explain the positives of the device
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
Snowdog should play another non Knuckle supported game. Vader Immortal. Not only do you flick switches but you pull levers, climb ladders and use the force open handed. The Knuckles are the best way to play the Oculus exclusive. But allas I'll just go back to knawing my own leg off while Snowdog continues to denounce their abilities. lol
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Snowdog should play another non Knuckle supported game. Vader Immortal. Not only do you flick switches but you pull levers, climb ladders and use the force open handed. The Knuckles are the best way to play the Oculus exclusive. But allas I'll just go back to knawing my own leg off while Snowdog continues to denounce their abilities. lol
I didn’t even think about Vader immortal.
Wow that game must suck even more on oculus hardware as the only thing I enjoyed of it was the use of index controllers 😂😂
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Argh I wish pimax would up their game and ask for help from valve. They could release some excellent light house hmds with the right guidance
 

Atmos

Well-known Member
Argh I wish pimax would up their game and ask for help from valve. They could release some excellent light house hmds with the right guidance

Yeah Valve already supplied Pimax with some base stations and Knuckles.

The problem with Pimax HMDs for me is the convergence. When I got the Index it was hard to switch the between the two. Index is so easy on the eyes and just worked every time.

Pimax need to completly redesign their optics.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Yeah Valve already supplied Pimax with some base stations and Knuckles.

The problem with Pimax HMDs for me is the convergence. When I got the Index it was hard to switch the between the two. Index is so easy on the eyes and just worked every time.

Pimax need to completly redesign their optics.


Tbh I think Pimax will just dissappear soon.

They've struggled to meet a sensible price point for an experience which far surpasses the Index or G2. Its probably asking too much of a company in its infancy to do just that. Their product line is messy, their customer service is redundant!
 

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