PX60 PX70 vs PH9 (Videophile nonsense or not)

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by Mister-E, Apr 25, 2007.

  1. Mister-E

    Mister-E
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    Hi all well I’ve been following the plasma section for a good few months now. I purchased a TH50PX60 and to be honest I thought it was ok. Until it developed purple snakes and lots of them. Then I got a replacement that had 4 dead pixels and buzzed like hell. Then I got a replacement and that was fine and then died the next day. Now its been a month getting my cash back from crampton and moore and I’m looking to buy again.

    I don’t mean to sound obtuse but there seems to be a lot of flannel thrown around by people with regards to the panny’s. I’ve seen a total of 9 of these px60 sets in homes and lots in stores and;

    Everyone defo gets image retention – but I’ve never seen burn. Yet people claim they don’t get it rofl

    Everyone of them buzzes, lots buzz very loud and are not fit for purpose in my eyes!

    The picture is good but there is magenta fuzz on everyone I have seen and snakes do appear on many of the 50’s on low birate TV programs.

    The build quality of the last panels seems poor too.

    To me these are facts end of even though lots dispute them. This is leaving me with a quandary. Should I get a TH50PX70 or a commercial 50PH9? I can go up to £2000 but would rather spend £1400ish but wouldn’t we all like stuff cheaper.

    There seems to be many more benefits to the commercial. Firstly its got a longer guarantee indicating its built better. This is backed by the lack of people complaining about buzz or purple snakes.

    The ones I have seen in the stores to display their goods etc seem to be much better PQ quality. I’m no videophile and nor do I want to be, but hey no purple lines, fuzzy trailing edges, buzzing etc would be nice.

    Plus regarding purple snakes I am beginning to think its not a fault at all but its all in the calibration and that settings can be made to create snakes. Again this is where a commercial excels you get a calibration disc and far more settings to adjust in order to get a good PQ.

    The down side is lack of speakers, freeview and connections etc but I am coming around to those Onkyo’s (even though I’d use some cheap richersounds speakers with it)

    Plus the deal on AVsales at the moment is damn fine.

    The thing is no-one seems to comment on how good the ph9 is against the px60. I’m getting the impression that they are chalk n cheese but people are afraid to say anything. I for one am not impressed with the px60 way too many niggles and I got to be honest I have seen older commercial models with much better PQ. This leaves the px70 but with none to look at, what do you do take AVsales 50PH9 with an Onkyo amp and all the free extras or buy a PX70 for £400-£450 less – or am I just talking brown smelly stuff :)

    I would be really nice to get some honest opinions of the PH9 in comparison to the PX stuff ;-)
     
  2. gizlaroc

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    I would not have bought a PX60 and advised heavily for people to get the commercial screens instead, however the PX70 has closed that gap, alot!

    I have played with the 42PX70 a fair bit now and think it is a very good screen, no problem with snakes and that digital fizz you got with bright scenes on the 60 is far far better. I still think the commercial screen is better though, and unless you really need an all in one system I would go with this every time, you can really squeeze loads out of thing with all the settings available and it has individual settings for each input.
    You can also store different settings under Cinema, Normal etc. unlike the consumer screen that uses these to load different gamma settings etc.
    So you can really tweak it for each bit of kit you own.

    Having said all that I am going to sell my 26LXD60 as I have moved it from the kitchen to the conseratory and need something bigger, and for the first time ever I am considering getting the PX70, as a second screen which I am not going to be quite so anal about it is excellent.
     
  3. Mister-E

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    Yep I think I'll be getting the one on offer from avsales - just going to weigh it all up tonight. I've yet to see a th50px70 in the flesh but if I get chance I'll pop to a panny shop tomorrow. I'm very much drawn to the commercial set up now after all when your paying this kind of money you want as many options and as much quality as you can get. The PX60 even at £999 doesnt do that for me. Thanks for your reply its good to hear someone giving an honest comparision between the pannys on offer at the moment. There are lots happy with the px70 but what is now putting me off is people are reporting the same/similar niggles as on the px60 :-( not good :)
     
  4. Gromit

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    Would you kindly elaborate on this?
     
  5. gpa

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    Plus regarding purple snakes I am beginning to think its not a fault at all but its all in the calibration and that settings can be made to create snakes. Again this is where a commercial excels you get a calibration disc and far more settings to adjust in order to get a good PQ.



    I would add, poor source and poor transfers to that list as well. The purple snake legend has been blown out of all proportion. In terms of quality picture the commercial panny's do have it. The current £1300.00 quid for the 50" ph9is a steal, especially with the extras. I can assure you you will not be disappointed.
     
  6. s1m0n

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    Mister-E you must be reading my mind...I just got a quote from Alastair for a PH9, although I'm not yet decided...need to ask some technical questions first...and that's the thing about the 'commercial panel' versus 'tv set' choice...it's easy to buy a tv set...plug it in and it works...but the pro panel is designed to be full of options and flexibility..it's a bit like the Pc computer versus Mac debate...and why the Mac continues to sell so well...it's easy, and the PC can be a real pain...but has a lot more potential..

    ...I hear people complaining about the complexity of regular plasma settings, options, resolutions etc...but that's just peanuts to Pro panels.....and that's why there are professional installers, they build up experience, find which settings work, and make it look easy...it's taken me years to get the PC knowledge I have now, and that's still nothing like enough to solve all problems....I have to say I'm dreading the dive into plasma technology that the PH9 demands...

    ...Here's an example...the PH9 comes with few connectors built in, and not the one's you're likely to need!...so you need to specify extra boards, at extra cost...ok fair enough...so AVSales is offering to include an HDMI board as part of their great price deal...good so far...but how many HDMI sockets are provided?...just one?....most people will need more, which is where the Onkyo offer comes in, acting as a source combiner with just a single HDMI output..to fit the PH9's input....but is this a good move?...now I need to research this Onkyo...is it the best option or just a relatively cheap way of solving a problem...it clearly isn't ideal to insert another box between your source and the display....

    -so do you buy a cheap DVD source and the Onkyo upscales?
    -is the Onkyo any good at upscaling?
    -why do people pay good money for Video processors instead?
    -if I got a good DVD, like the Oppo 981, is that wasted money with the Onkyo as well?
    -what about my legacy stuff, Sky (SCART) and even VHS (SCART)?
    -daisy chaining SCART is a solution, but you lose quality, it's analogue after all.
    -what about these extra boxes: RGB SCART to Component converter?
    -or that recomended VGA converter, for playing games on the screen?

    ...there's lots of options...AND I LIKE RESEARCHING THIS STUFF!!...but it's gonna take me some time...and getting a plasma anytime soon seems to be less and less likely....

    ...and what about the 'future-proofing' choices?...there's discussion of the importance of a screen accepting 1080p...the old PX60 didn't (only went as far as 1080i)...the new PX70 addresses this and accepts 1080p...the current Pioneers already accept 1080p...and even go so far as to accept 1080/24p...the solution to 3:2 pulldown jagglies (streuth I've learnt a lot of stuff on these forums!)....Pioneer boast about this because the Panasonic PX60 and PX70s don't have it...but the PH9 does!....so I start looking at the technical sheet for the PH9 and there's a whole list of inputs it accepts...which include 720/25p and 720/30p...which are new to me, but sound like the progressive equivalents of 720/50i and 720/60i, 50/60Hz tv...but when you read the 1080 stuff it says accepts 1080i and 1080/24p, but doesn't list 1080/25p and 1080/30p...does this mean the PH9 has the older version of the viera processor, and can't handle 1080p fully?...I don't know...more research (strangely the Panasonic website lists these sources as accepted, but adds a '?' after them...maybe they don't know either!!.....I found the table that listed inputs in the .pdf of the commercial catalogue)...

    ...someone has posted a link to the .pdf manual for the US version of the upcoming PH10...and it clearly lists that screen as accepting those 1080/25 & 30p sources....and it's going to be an ability we're likely to want...

    ...so more questions....

    ...by the time I get the answers the new Pioneers will be here, and that may make it all academic:rolleyes:
     
  7. Mister-E

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    Originally Posted by Misty View Post
    Hi all, I just hung my new TH50-PX70 and on the whole I am fairly happy with it apart from the points below: -

    1. I have noticed whilst watching SKY HD that as I change channels I get 14 or so vertical ghosted bars which then dissapear when the channel locks in.

    2. High pitched fan noise from the screen.

    3. The screen seems to react audiably to sudden bright changes in output, an example is in the Spiderman HD trailer I downloaded there are a few bright flashes that almost seem to make the screen labour and make a clicking noise.

    4. SD quality seems to be down in comparison to my old TH-42PV500

    Sorry to sound so negative but anyone wanting an unbiased opinion of this new screen doesn't just want to read posts praising a product when a more clinical post may answer the points raised above.

    If anyone has any feedback or suggestions on the above please post as I need to know if I am being overly critical or if I have a duff unit.

    Thanks in advance guys

    there is one example and there are others on Panasonic TH50PX70B Owners Thread :)
     
  8. Mister-E

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    s1m0n we sound like we are defo in the same boat - think I'll go commercialbut like you said its a lot to weigh up and probably like me you only want to spend out once. What I do like with seperate amps is that in a few years changing that for something that can super duper the PQ is better than changing the dispaly and if you got a display thats cracking then you can add to it. Also I cant tell the diff between 720 and 1080 hook up ps3 and xbox and played blue ray and to me there is nowt between them. All I would like is better PC connection as I'm thinking of making a media box myself. But in the end all I really want is a trouble free (after set up lol) good picture with no loud buzzing, no purple nonsense and no dead pixels and the px stuff its defo not 100% in those areas its a god damn lottery with them and I'm not a betting man I work to hard for my cash :)

    Ps good to hear someones views who is also going through the same decision process :) Thx :)
     
  9. J80FAB

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    'High pitched fan noise from screen' ?

    The PX70s don't have fans, well the 42 inch certainly doesn't.

    Have they put fans in the 50 inch model :confused:

    If there are no fans in the PX50 then what is this high pitched fan noise from screen supposed to be ?
     
  10. choddo2006

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    I don't think the PH9 accepts 1080p/24 over HDMI does it? Isn't that only analogue? And according to the PDF, same is true for 1080p/60.

    One of the reason people buy expensive video processors is to remove all the concerns you mentioned. I can use SCART (although the connector is different), s-video, component, composite, HDMI and several combinations thereof without worrying about inputs on the screen. The Onkyo gives you a lot of that switching without the high quality processing, but it's clearly not a sensible option for anyone who already has an amp and doesn't want to replace it.
     
  11. papa_flump

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    I've jumped ship from the commercial panel (42PWD7) and gone for my first TV type panel (see TH50PX70 owners thread)... I must say I've had no such issues with my screen as posted earlier...

    basically, if I had no wife :thumbsup: :suicide: and no annoying friends/family who came up with such quotes as... where's teletext... what's that other box for... where's the speakers... etc. etc. then I would stick with a commercial panel.... and feel slightly smug that I have something that is not only critically acclaimed but they can't buy it from comet or curry's.... but

    Life's not that simple... getting phone calls from the wife whilst I'm at work saying.. how do I get the dvd to work or where's sky gone :boring: and the usual... there's no sound... (PWD7 was connected via a single vga lead... everything else went through an amp & selector box) was part of the reason & relief in getting a straight forward tv... can my contact lens inhabitted eyes tell the difference between a commercial panel & the new PX70.. no not really, I'm just a guy who likes to watch football and now I have sky HD I'm a very happy camper indeed. Also got a ps3 for blu-ray and still came in within the same budget as a commercial panel with all the connectivity...

    After all it's only a tv and whilst I loved my PWD7.. I now love my PX70 as much.. no... more because it's bigger :hiya:
     
  12. ted26

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    If you read the thread then you can tell this person has a faulty unit so its hard to use it as evidence of anything!
     
  13. Mister-E

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    No not really as I was one of the first to have faulty PX60's on the 50' and then a shedload of people reported the same probs - is this a one off or more to come? No-one has that answer yet but I'm not betting £1400 on it :) Plus I've read a few other not so positve quotes too but yes I agree with you at the moment things are going in the px70 favour I hope it stays that way but we need more sold to find out.

    Plus lets forget about the fan nonsense we all knew when we read it that it was probably the good ole cheap as chips total garbage psu :)
     
  14. ted26

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    I agree with you as i have the TH50-PX70 and must admit that there is something about the set that i aint sure about.

    I had a panny th-42pw5 panny for 3 years and am unsure if this set processes as well as my old set!

    The jury is out as far as i am concerned :)
     
  15. gizlaroc

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    PW5, a hard act to follow.
     
  16. choddo2006

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    Prontos are the solution to all wife-related technology challenges ;) It's still not enough to keep the in-laws from getting into trouble while babysitting though.
     
  17. s1m0n

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    Just found a recent good review of the Onkyo SR674 offered by AV sales as a good companion for the PH9...

    Secrets of Home Theater review of Onkyo SR674

    ...it's a very positive review, so sounds like a good AV amp, if you haven't got one already...but as for the video-source-switcher job, it seems to have only 2 HDMI inputs...so does not really solve this future-proofing problem...
     
  18. s1m0n

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    ...in addition I found a link to a Panasonic 9 series .pdf that has a table listing all the inputs, including HDMI, that the earlier .pdf I was looking at was missing:

    Panasonic 9 series .pdf (including HDMI)

    ...it seems the PH9 series does not handle 1080/50p or 60p at all, only going up to 1080/50i and 60i....which may be related to the 9th generation Panasonics generally....the 10th (current) generation boasts of the improved 'Vierra 2' processing which does accept 1080p inputs.

    ...The PH9 does accept 1080/24p, something apparently unusual for Panasonic plasmas...and something in favour of Pioneer plasmas...but, as choddo pointed out, the Panasonic PH9 will not input 1080/24p over the HDMI board...there are various component boards, HD-SDI board, and the 'PC input' (a 15pin D-sub built in to all pro plasmas)...this D-sub is what I think people are calling the 'VGA' input, although it's capable of much higher resolutions than VGA..

    ..so you would need a device outputting in one of these non-HDMI formats (and the associated input board in the PH9) to use 1080/24p...either your DVD player or some kind of converter/processor...

    ...as a side note the full HD commercial displays, the PF series, will accept the full 1080/50p and 60p signals...via a DVI-D board instead of HDMI (although I understand you can convert HDMI-DVI signals simply with an adaptor...probably losing the audio through this cable)...and also via the above boards mentioned in the PH9's 1080/24p capability....Maybe the PF series are the transitional displays between Panasonic's 9th and 10th generations...with 1080p but only via DVI?

    ...these PF series displays are, of course, a lot more expensive.
     
  19. Mister-E

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    Thanks for that s1mon. I'll be probably getting the Onkyo, I'm gutted I missed the £299 offer for it only a week or two back :) Also thx for inputs info. 720 is more than enough for me, I cant tell the diff between 720 and 1080 on the xbox360 lol :) Off to read the onkyo review now :)
     
  20. Mister-E

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    Well all you lot talking about your plasmas has gotten me down so I cant wait no more I got to have one so I ordered the 50PH9. For me I think the deal the av-sales are offering at the moment is damn good. I got the ph9 package the onkyo amp package and the wall bracket with 5yrs warranty for only £400 more than the px70. No offence to px70 peeps I didn’t like the PQ in store I thought that SD did not improve over the px60 and people (not many) reporting niggles that were on some (not many) px60’s I thought pah I could do without that. Even the px70 in the store buzzed like hell and had lots of purple fizz, the next one I look at buzzed even more but good pq and the last one was quiet and had purple fizz and delay on moving images. Considering I got messed around with 3 px60’s I just didn’t want the hassle.

    So now I got to buy a freview box and some speakers.

    Any views on what freeview box. I think its got to have a certain output other than scart for the Onkyo and I was thinking of getting a PVR (think that’s what they are called lol).

    With speakers, errr get ready to cringe. I was either going to get a cheap pc set and cut them up or a cheap package or lastly pop to richersounds and don’t spend too much. Budget and me being naturally tight is what all that is about. I’ll have to check if you can hook up any speaker to the Onkyo first though I guess.

    Got an xbox and xbox 360 to hook up to it. But after seeing the PS3 and its blue ray and more importantly streaming from home network ability (play any format) what a bit of kit to have – but to rich for my married butt – will have to admire my best mates hook up to his cracking 50px60.

    Many thanks to those who have given me advice especially the posts of Ray P. I’m looking forward to going back to big screen and the portable TV can go lol :)
     

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