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Pw6/434/hd6??

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by chez, Nov 30, 2003.

  1. chez

    chez
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    I went shopping today, with a view to going into the Panasonic shop, looking at a PW6 then going to John Lewis to order myself one.

    That's as far as I got on my planned journey though as the PW6 really didn't impress me.

    The picture seemed to flicker really badly, whether it was terrestrial TV or DVD!

    So I thought I'd give up on my mission for today and think about it next weekend.

    However, on my way home, I happened to pass Currys and thought I'd see what they had on display.

    They had the Panny PA20 and a PW5, both of which showed the same flicker that I had seen before and the PA20 seemed to have a great deal of interference on all solid blocks of colour (although I put this down to the setup in Currys rather than the panel!).

    Then, I looked over to the back of the store, where I saw what was quite possibly the best picture I have yet seen on a plasma and possibly even as good as I've seen on a CRT.

    Sure enough, they'd taken delivery of the Pioneer 434. The difference in quality between this and any other set I'd seen was unbelievable!

    So, now I'm left with a few questions -

    Do the 6 series Panasonics suffer from flicker or was this down to poor setup in both shops?

    Is the Panny HD6 meant to be better than the PW6 and, more importantly, how does it fair next to the 434??

    What causes the flicker and does it make sense that the HD panel doesn't flicker while the SD ones did??

    I know the easiest way to answer these would be to go to a specialist and demo them side by side, but I live in the midlands where this just isn't possible!!

    Thanks in advance
    Chez
     
  2. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    I reckon you should be able to get a side by side in the midlands just a matter of calling lots of dealers to see what they have. I have not seen flicker on PA20/PW5/PW6 or any other plasma (i may be very lucky or have crap eyes) Have a look at the Fujitsu HHA as PQ is great, Pio 434 is highly anticipated and looks like they have got it right! If currys can make one look good then a proper setup should be superb!
     
  3. chez

    chez
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    I will try ro get a demo, but it's not proving easy!!

    I'm in Northampton and nowhere in Northampton or Milton Keynes has both of the panels (PW6/434) for demo.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm going to want a 434, which is a shame as it means I'll have to wait until I've got the money! (Can get the PW6 for £3200, 434 for £4000)

    Also, I could have done with getting it from John Lewis as the only reason I'm looking at Plasmas is that JL are giving me a full refund for my TX36PB50 which has shadows and lines all over it!!

    JL have the PW6, but not the 434.

    If I have to wait a couple of months, that means I'll have to put up with a 14" TV in my lounge (really not ideal!!)
     
  4. jason t

    jason t
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    i got the 434 last week from jl in kingston and i saw it today £300 cheaper in jl bluwater :mad: but after a quick phone call looks like i will be £300 better off and still have my 5 year warranty:D
     
  5. chez

    chez
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    So JL do stock them - sweet!!

    Do you mind me asking how much the bluwater branch are selling them for??

    Also, what do you get with it from JL?? I only really need the screen and tuner, but most places make you have the speakers and stand as well!

    Thanks
    Chez
     
  6. jason t

    jason t
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    yes its a complete package speakers table top stand media box and screen plus 5 year warranty !!!! it was £4199 in bluewater

    jason
     
  7. chez

    chez
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    Great, thanks Jason.

    Looks like this could make my mind up!!

    The best I've seen is £4k for just the screen and tuner.

    £4200 for the complete package is a great deal (I'll probably end up selling the speakers and stand, but the 5 year warranty is worth the extra!!)
     
  8. jason t

    jason t
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    i think soo !!! i will most probably be selling my stand soon so i can wall mount it i think they are much nicer on the wall

    jason
     
  9. chez

    chez
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    One last thing Jason - which stand is supplied? Is it the table top stand or the taller silver stand or the one with the glass shelf? (http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_detail.jsp?product_id=5770&taxonomy_id=62-63 , http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_detail.jsp?product_id=5771&taxonomy_id=62-63 or http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/product_detail.jsp?product_id=5772&taxonomy_id=62-63)


    Also, does anyone know of anywhere within an hour or so of Northampton that would have both of these screens availalbe for a demo??
     
  10. jason t

    jason t
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    chez it comes with PDK-TS04 the table top stand !!
    the others are about £600 each (good try though)




    :smashin:
     
  11. chez

    chez
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    Thought as much!! Thanks for all the info Jason ;)
     
  12. kifimoto

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    It's absolutely unbelievable! that John Lewis is cheaper than Sevenoaks!!! I just bought the 434 from the Kingston Branch of Sevenoaks and paid 4400 for the thing with speakers and stands.
    I have to say the stand is actually of very good quality so i think it's money well spent....
    having said that, the package of JL is ab. fab! :suicide:
    but anyhow, the 434 is SO BEAUTIFUL i'll pay anything for it. For some reason it looks much bigger and more beautiful in my lounge than in curry's.
    If i hadn't bought it yet i'll go to JL first thing tomorrow!
    bugger.
     
  13. chez

    chez
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    Has anyone else ever noticed flickering on the PW6??

    I haven't ruled it out completely (it's still £1000 cheaper at the end of the day!)

    I could understand it being down to bad setup in one shop, but in both???
     
  14. acegadget

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    Pioneer PDP-434

    Right....Yes the Pana's do suffer from a flicker!
    Yes......The Pioneer is the best Plasma on the market at the moment.
    Yes......I do know where you can view both sets.

    You are all going on about saving money on your plasma by buying it from JL but at the end of the day although better than box shifters Curry's do they actually know what they are talking about?
    I have sold 8 PDP 434's of which the first on I bought myself, out of those 8 I have installed or have yet to install all of them. Hense when you come to Oxford Sevenoaks it is me who will deal with you and you get the service you deserve when spending 4k plus. You are spending 4k not being funny but is it worth saving £200 buying from someone that when you ask any questions they have to consult the manual or Pioneer.

    But were ever you decide on YES buy the Pioneer cause it is awesome:D
     
  15. NeilMcRae

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    Who ever says the panny 6 suffers from flicker must be blind. The old 5's +only+ when using the tuner do suffer from this a little but the 6 has completely eliminated it.
     
  16. Dalorp

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    You really need to see a demo of the models you may want side by side. I have a Panny 6 and have never seen a flicker but some do. I have seen the Panny 6 and Pinoneer side by side and to be honest saw now difference between picture quality and there fore decided to spend £1000 less. I also hated the 434 design so was quite happy to stick with the silver P6.

    Obviously though its all down to personal choice as we all have different eyes - and allso wives (mine hates anything black lol)
     
  17. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    Well, I have a PW6 and I don't notice any flicker, and am very happy with it.

    I looked at both the PW6 and the 434 - I thought both were excellent; I went for the PW6 as all I wanted was the screen (didn't want speakers, tuner).

    Mark
     
  18. chez

    chez
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    Well - I've been out and about today and auditioned both the sets, but I'm still not sure!

    I went to Stratford Hi-Fi in Lemaington spa, who told me over the phone that they had both sets on display.

    Upon arrival, I found out that they only had the Panny on display, but they were happy to 'show' me the pio (ie. get it out of the box and stand there looking pleased with themselves!) They didn't have any stands for the Pio, so couldn't demo it!!

    I had a demo of the PW6. Watched bits of Gladiator and Finding Nemo.

    I was far more impressed with it this time than when I saw it before. The blacks were very black, but I felt that it seemed to push all of the dark greys towards black rather than showing them as greys. There was also a tiny bit of flicker, but nowhere near as bad as before.

    I did notice a little bit of 'noise' in large areas of colour, but nothing too off-putting.

    I then headed to Technosound in Milton Keynes (where I have bought most of my kit from in the past) for a demo of the Pio 504 (they didn't have the 434 - but assured me that the PQ is identical on both).

    I watched a bit of T2 and Gladiator again (so I could compare)

    The picture on this set seemed much clearer with far less noise than the Panasonic, although the blacks did not appear to be anywhere near black (this is made to look even worse by the jet black surround on the set!)

    The guy in the shop did say that it had been left at factory settings (which makes me think there is room for improvement) but didn't seem like he wanted to start playing with the settings (it was 15 minutes before they shut though!).

    I think I prefer the overall PQ of the Pioneer set, but am left wondering just how bad the black levels are.

    Is it very, very obvious when watching that the blacks are dark grey? (before I saw the set, I had imagined that it would be the sort of thing you would only notice if you had a crt screen sitting next to it to compare it to).

    As I said, I don't think Pioneer have done themselves any favours by making the surround out of jet black glass!

    One other thing I'm curious about is the HDMI.

    I have a Meridian 596 DVD player at the moment, but if I wanted the Pioneer, I would be tempted to sell my 596 and get the Pio 868. I was told by somebody (can't remember who!) that the 868 would give a better picture if used via HDMI than my 596 would via component. Is this true, even though the actual video circuit in the meridian is likely to be of higher quality?

    Thanks
    Chez
     
  19. joys_R_us

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    I seem to be in the minority in thinking exactly the same. The black on Pana are blacker but in my view this comes at the cost of having lost detail in shadow areas...

    Re. the second statement/question I can assure you (but here again I might be a minority) that I just can't see any problems with the black levels in my sensibly lit living room. I keep looking at these blacks of my Pio, they really are very good. Yes the black frame is blacker (I LOVE IT !) but this is also the case when the PDP is shut off...

    I wouldn't be concerned with the black level problem, be it a Pana or Pio of latest generation.
     
  20. pteittinen

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    I'm shopping for a plasma for my living room, and am torn between the Panny TH50PHW6B and Pio PDP-504HDE.

    I haven't seen either "in action", but on paper the Panny wins - yet reading this forum gives me the impression the Pio has the better picture (apart from the black level).

    Panny
    --------
    resolution: 1366x768
    contrast: 4000:1
    brightness: ??
    colors: 1.07 billion

    Pio
    ---------
    resolution: 1280x768
    contrast: 1100:1
    brightness: 1000 cd/m2
    colors: less than a billion (?)

    The superior contrast alone should make the Panny a winner, right?
     
  21. joys_R_us

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    There are three recommendations in buying a plasma:

    1. Forget the numbers look at the picture
    2. Forget the numbers look at the picture
    3. Forget the numbers look at the picture

    :p :laugh:
     
  22. steve36

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    chez,
    I have seen the pioneer 50" and not seen any visible noise during the demo I saw, but I have seen the 43" looking very processed and actually more noisy than the Panasonic PW6.
    One thing to remember, in all cases the picture noise is often a result of different settings on the plasmas.
    I find with mine if I use one of the brighter settings with Sky(low res channels), it appears very noisy, but when I adjust the contrast a little it looks good.
    Often Panasonics in shops are set very bright to show-off, this can make noise more visible. At home you would not normally have it this bright.
    Are stratford hifi still using monsters inc for the demos ? All plasmas look good with this !

    Steve.
     
  23. gandley

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    I had the 503 and for dvd this was the winner over my pw5 but the pany does regular tv better.

    also the 50ins pany has fans so check to confirm.

    pany has better blacks and truer colours but pioneer 504 has better detail and a more 3d feel with dvd but not good for sky
     
  24. pteittinen

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    Thanks for the comments!

    Which set has better connections? I'd need VGA, component, RGB Scart (and maybe DVI). Doesn't the Panny require additional modules for some of these?

    My use will be approx. 10% PC (games), 40% games consoles, 20% DVD and 30% digital (DVB-T) TV.
     
  25. gandley

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    pioneer wins hands down here.

    connection on pio so easy as all is on media box., no having to route behind screen as with pany.

    yes you have to buy extra modules if u need to.(on pany)

    but the pio is the better screen. i have spent time with my friends and seen it side by side with my pany and id go for the pio. for dvd its the winner via hdmi
     
  26. KarlRobinson

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    Chez,

    I had the same issues as yourself regarding blacks but it never really highlighted the problem until i saw the 434 next to a CRT. I saw the 434 next to a W6 and thought the pic was better, and no real difference in black levels.

    At Whsmith today I saw a few magazines reviewing the 434 and they all stated it was the best plasma they'd ever seen. Make up your own mind, either way none can replace a CRT at present.
     
  27. redsox_mark

    redsox_mark
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    And the December Home Cinema Choice mag had the PW6 as the best plasma ever.....
    Agree, you need to see them and decide which you like best.
    Mark
     
  28. KarlRobinson

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    Don't think HCC has reviewed the 434 yet.
     
  29. sunil4

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    JL Bluewater now claiming not to sell the Pio 434?? - any ideas short of me driving there myself in this Xmas mayhem traffic

    Ta
     
  30. johnelf

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    JL Bluewater had then last Friday (5thDec) for £4500 for complete package previously described.
     

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