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Pv500 vs PE50

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by maxib, Oct 30, 2005.

  1. maxib

    maxib
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    Okay, I think I've been convinced by this forum to go for plasma over lcd and was pretty much ready to go for the PV500 (37 or 42 depending on what prices I can find). But Ive just been noticing that a lot of people opt for the £1000 cheaper Pe models and insist that PQ is just as good on them AND they will be able to show HD stuff. What AM I actually going to get for my £1000? You will probably say "go and see demos for yourself". Maybe im too shy or timid, but do you actually go and ask people to set up different tvs for you to see, even perhaps knowing that you are not going to buy from them that day? Dont they get mighty ****** if they take ages to set it up and then you just say "thanks, thats helped. Bye" ?? And is this standard service in high street big names or do you only get this in specialised dealers?
     
  2. RHCP

    RHCP
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    I'd go for the PE50 - fantastic machine.

    Then wait a couple of years and spen your extra £1000 on a true hi-def screen when hi-def is out.

    Then you've got 2 amazing machines :thumbsup:
     
  3. GASWATKINS

    GASWATKINS
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    I in the same position with these 2 plasma s
    but have to wait another month for a will, ie the monies to pay out on the beast
    so i will follow this thread with some interest
    Cheers
     
  4. billym

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    I've had a TH42PE50 for two weeks now and it just keeps getting better and better.

    I had a TH42PE50 and the PV500 demo'd side by side in a specialist supplier store with both standard input and also HD input which was through component on the PE50 as it does not have DVI - I couldn't tell the difference between the two sets and, if anything, the PE50 looked better in non-HD.

    I don't have any interest or intention in using HD within the next few years anyway - as far as Sky is concerned the PQ I have on the PE50 via Freeview just now is awesome so what would I gain?

    The PE50 doesn't have PC or DVI input however for everything else it is fantastic - the PV500 just isn't worth the extra £££, for me at least. At the end of the day though you need to see these for yourself and consider what you need to use the set for over its expected useful life. With the PE50 you would not be disappointed though.
     
  5. Degas

    Degas
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    I thought the PE50 had VGA input?
     
  6. RHCP

    RHCP
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    nope, but would it be worth £1000! :)
     
  7. maxib

    maxib
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    Hmm. On another thread I had people saying that the 50 just wasnt able to compete pq wise with the 500 for some technical reason or other, cant remember. If i do want to watch true HD soon (I thought that DVDs and games and stuff would all be going that way soon, not just Sky?) is the 50 still just as good? And can it be linked to my pc in any way?
     
  8. chedmaster

    chedmaster
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    you can only link it to PC with svid or component if you get an adapter for some cards. You may not be able to use Sky HD after 6 months or a year, or you may be very limited (HD that is) as channels may require a digital HDCP socket. (notice all the "may"s, you may be able to get a naughty box of tricks to overcome these issues). HD DVD and Blu-ray are pretty much out for a PE50 in HD, but can be used with component at SD res i believe (eg 576p or 480p), but they and Sky HD will likely look better than current SD anyway, even if they are downscaled before the screen.

    Basically, you will never get true HD with a PE50, because it doesn't have the resolution, but you will see a definate improvement if you choose to use an HD source.
     
  9. maxib

    maxib
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    Sorry Chedmaster I really am a complete novice with this stuff. Please tell me if i understood your reply correctly: Sky HD, DVD and Games will all look better on the PV500 but on normal tv they will both look the same? When you said that HD DVDs were a no for the PE50, what would billym have been shown for the HD demo? Would it have been a DVD do you think and therefore not really producing a true HD image? IS this change in resolution going to be noticeable or is it just technical?
     
  10. Faust

    Faust
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    I would just add this, (a) Sky's first generation box will have component as well as HDMI, and according to an email from them they expect a 5 year cycle on the first digi box and do not expect to deploy HDCP except for the odd subscription sporting event during that time. (b) go see both panels PV500 and PE50 running a Hi Def feed, and if you can see any difference then you must have eyesight to rival that of a Peregrine Falcon. (c) with an SD source such as Freeview or Sky, I think the PE50 displays a slightly better picture. That only leaves the PC input - personally I have a computer and a TFT monitor for that purpose, I bought the PE50 to watch tele.
     
  11. chedmaster

    chedmaster
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    Right,

    The PE50 is 852x480 pixels, the PV500 is 1024x768

    SD is either 480 or 576 lines, you can see how it matches the SD screen

    HD is either 1280x720 (matches PV500) or 1920x1080i (interlaced)

    720p on a PV500 will have very little scaling (resizing to fit panel), and so should show it close to pixel for pixel. On the PE50 it will be scaled down to 852x480, and if you were examining very closely, you would see more detail on the PV500, but from normal viewing distances the difference will be much more subtle, some say its un-noticeable but (no offence or direction here) those people have usually gone for the PE50 :) .

    1920x1080 HD will be downscaled for both (and de-interlaced etc), but again the PV500 can technically show more detail. Again whether you can see this is up to you and your vision/viewing distance.

    NTSC (480 lines) will likely look best on the PE50, as it is native, PAL may look the same, I don't know as I haven't seen them side by side with every format.

    The PE50 doesn't have a digital HDCP socket (eg HDMI or DVI-HDCP), so will not be able to take a HD signal from Blu Ray and HD DVD (this may not be 100% as copyright content may or may not allow HD from the analogue component outs, which the PE50 can accept). Same goes for Sky, but they promise their channels will be available, at least initially, through component.

    With a good scaler the PV500 may look better with SD as it can be upscaled without any loss of quality, and the PV500 should have less colour banding because of more pixels etc etc but this is all down the viewing!

    edit: apologies if you knew all or some of that, i wanted to cover everything :)
     
  12. the highlander

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    thanks for that chedmaster :thumbsup: it makes things a lot clearer in my eyes now :D
    i have had a pe50 for about 6 months now and I'm very happy with it :D

    if i wanted to connect a PC to it ( as i have 6 in the house network , both wired and wireless ) i know you said svid ( easy to do ) what are these other connector's you are telling us about .
    could you please post a link for them and the one you think would give the best quality picture from a PC to the pe50 .
     
  13. chedmaster

    chedmaster
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    the component dongle for ATI cards pops up on ebay every so often, or you can buy it from america (not for sale in UK officially). i dont know about nvidia ones, may be much the same.

    for ati cards i think its compatible with 9600s, 9700s and 9800s, dont know about the X***'s
     
  14. Thekop

    Thekop
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    The 42" or 37" PV500 is the obvious choice in my opinion.. Why compromise for a short term fix with the "52" when with a little bit more saving, you could be HD ready with the "500" - for which HD broadcasting ( or whatever ) is only just around the corner ? :thumbsup:
    I had mine delivered Saturday and I'm just stunned by the quality. :D

    I also think it's much better looking than the old model :smashin:
     
  15. jwramsay

    jwramsay
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    But IIRC, the first gen Vierra chokes on 720p (i.e. can't even downscale it)?
     
  16. Degas

    Degas
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    I have one of those actually that I don't need actually, if anyone wants it drop me a PM and I'll let them have it cheap.
     
  17. chedmaster

    chedmaster
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    Yes, (at 50hz only?) the PE30, I think its fixed for the PE50 though.
    You bought the PV500, so you've obviously got your reasons, but as a neutral bystander I can see good reasons for a PE50 as well. E.g. 1080p screens down to current 42PV500 money?
     
  18. maxib

    maxib
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    Thanks Chedmaster, You've been really patient explaining it all. I wont pretend that I understand what interlacing or downscaling means - i havent a clue, but i guess the only thing for me to do is to view both side by side as once all the technical talk is done, the decison on pq does all appear to be completely subjective. On the topic of HD DVDs to run into one of these sets, have i understood correctly from other threads that DVD players showing this are not yet available? I thought I saw DVDs which said they had HDMI output. Just what are my options for viewing anything HD (like DVDs) on one of these screens right now?
     
  19. chedmaster

    chedmaster
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    downscaling is changing HD res eg 1280x720 to either the panels native res 852x480 or to SD eg 720x480. This results in a loss of detail technically but its hard to see normally from normal viewing distance.

    upscaling is the opposite, and is what these so called Hi def dvd players do. the take a SD dvd, and upscale it to HD res eg 1280x720, then output it by HDMI. If you like its "pseudo HD", no more detail, but sometimes the DVD player upscales better than the panel. No need for this for a SD screen (in fact it would prob degrade pic).

    Interlaced is what SD and 1080i HD is. Theres one frame with the odd lines, then one with the even lines, making a full frame every two frames, as opposed to progressive scan's one full frame per frame, eg 1280x720p.
     
  20. maxib

    maxib
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    Right. But the picture on one of these HI Def DVD players would look better on a HD screen than on a normal screen? Would they work better when the actual DVDs are filmed in HD or will i have to go and buy another DVD player in a year to see the real thing? (ie why di you call them "so-called" HD players?) Sorry, i hope you're not getting too bored with these basic questions but you're really helping me!
     
  21. jedimaster1971

    jedimaster1971
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    are these leads any good for pc to PE50 component use

    hxxp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-25FT-VGA-TO-Component-Video-3-RCA-Cable-SVGA-UK_W0QQitemZ5824141150QQcategoryZ41999QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    excuse my stupidity just looking for a solution

    many thanks for bearing with me
    jedi
     
  22. chedmaster

    chedmaster
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    lol no problem hopefully if theyre all answered it will help other people in future as well.

    these current dvd players play dvds, and upscale them. it will not make the dvd look better on an HD screen than on an SD screen, it will attempt to make it look as good. If the dvd player doesnt do it, the HD screen will, to match its native res (probably 1024x768).

    the HD formats will not be dvd,

    they will either be HD-DVD (a new format) or Blu-Ray disc (BDrom - also a new format) There will be little or no hd content on standard DVDs, their capacity is too small.

    So these so called HD players take a SD dvd and try and make it in to HD. HD DVD will already be in HD, so wont need upscaling. Yes you will need a new player to play one/other/both of these new formats.
     
  23. chedmaster

    chedmaster
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    jedi,

    no. you need the official ATI component dongle and a compatible card.
     
  24. chedmaster

    chedmaster
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  25. jedimaster1971

    jedimaster1971
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    ched,
    :thumbsup:

    jedi
     
  26. Thekop

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    Sure there are good reasons for purchasing PV50 models, they are fine sets for the money. But no good for anyone with an eye for the 720p HD future :)
    It's a bit premature talking about 1080p standards though. Movie software for that is practically non-existant. And in my view both HD/DVD or Blue Ray is nothing but a pipe-dream, and will probably end up in the same graveyard as S-VHS :eek:

    I would have to say though, that the 42" PV500 picture is the finest I've seen from any set, CRT, LCD or other Plasmas for the money.. A full 110% :thumbsup: from me for anyone wanting a little slice of mini-cinema heaven :)
     
  27. MAT365

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    yes I think there are reason's to buy the 500V over the 50PE, in that if you want to get the best overall picture you have to get the 500V, although only a slight improvement, it is there.
    However I disagree that a reason to get the 500V ober 50PE, is future HD compatiblity. The 500V is not even completely compatible with 720p let alone 1080i, it just meet's the requirements of a definition 'HD Ready' put togther by a group of manufacturers and retailers and we know whose side they are on.
    The point is that 'HD Ready' is an in between state of affairs and is not really future compatible.
    Sure as Chritsmas comes every year we will shortly see sets coming out advertised with descriptions such as 'real HDTV'.
     
  28. gettingthefear

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    my thoughts exactly, RHCP. the pv500 goes for €3500 here (france), whereas i can get the pe50 for €1800. mainstream HD broadcasts are at least a couple of years away, by which time my €1700 euros will buy a big chunk of whatever finally emerges as the dominant technology - be it plasma, lcd, dlp or even SED - AND i'll still have a perfectly good pe50 to hang in the den for gaming etc. the only drawback is the lack of pc access and a BIG thanks :smashin: to the chedmaster for his advice on that front.
     
  29. Sulis

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    This is not very helpful. The PV500s are certainly able to display 720p (and 1080i) at a quality pretty much indistinguishable from 'completely compatible' sets. The important bits are HDCP and HDMI inputs, and a reasonably compatible pixel count. Will there be improvements in the future? Yes, of course there will. However, until a significant amount of content is shot or produced at 1080p the PQ improvements in terms of resolution are liable to be marginal – it will only be on larger ( > 50") screens that you'll see it. I would expect future improvements to be aimed at increasing contrast, brightness and black levels.
     
  30. maxib

    maxib
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    Hmm some more food for thought - im getting no nearer to working out the better option. I have to buy a tv now. The reality (for those who suggested that i get a PE50 and use the money i save to get another newer sceen in a year or two) is that whatever price i pay, i know that i will not fork out another £1000-2000 in a year or two - i will simply stick to what i have. With this in mind, am i better off getting the 500? I thought it was all equipped for the future but now i'm reading that it is not really future-proof and it is not really a proper HD screen. Is this the case? Basically i want to get something that will offer me the best PQ for SkyHD and hopefully any other sources (like games consoles or HD DVDs) for the forseeable future! Can the PE50 offer me this now (if so I just cant see the point of producing a 500 and why so many are buying it - there must be something to it surely?)
     

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