Public sector pay cap scrapped. Elections time?

As I say, I’ve said my piece and given the facts. The RCN guidelines can say whatever they like but the real world payslip is what matters. Everyone is different and makes different choices, I just feel that someone shouldn’t be penalised for doing the job they trained for and are very good at just because of a number on a piece of paper but let’s move on.
 
If everyone progresses to the next (presumably managerial/supervisory) level, who do they manage/supervise? :devil:

Rhetorical Question BTW :)
They manage the next generation of nurses coming through the system. Plus those who choose not to pursue promotion for their own reasons.
 
But the "highest pay available for their job" is not some law of physics which can't be broken.
It is however understood up front and has been this way for many years. If people don't like this system, they knew the way it worked when they joined.
 
It is however understood up front and has been this way for many years. If people don't like this system, they knew the way it worked when they joined.

That's a different argument to the salary being some insurmountable cap.

Whether people really understod it or not when they joined I think it quite debatable. Pick and chose examples but mine are from people who choose nursing for wanting to help people. They are also the sort of people who would not have sat down for any time to work out what they're career choice meant financially for the next 40 years.

Sure you can say anyone going into nursing, for example, is an adult who makes their own choices; but just like so many other things in life there is a limit to how far ahead people will check anything. I know countless people who took their first job to get any old job and never considered what this would lead to, do you want to condemn the lot of them?

I think those people, not unreasonable, genuinely expect deep down that their salary would keep inline with inflation. Also particularly when we're talking about what is frankly complex pay scales with a whole variety of factors / requirements which people would not understand when doing their initial training!
 
It is however understood up front and has been this way for many years. If people don't like this system, they knew the way it worked when they joined.

I would also argue that they also signed up for regular annual rises in line with cost of living.

However, the issue of letting people ‘stagnate’ while they still actually perform a vital role is that it leads to people leaving the profession entirely which means the NHS rely more and more on expensive bank staff and immigration.
 
I would also argue that they also signed up for regular annual rises in line with cost of living.

However, the issue of letting people ‘stagnate’ while they still actually perform a vital role is that it leads to people leaving the profession entirely which means the NHS rely more and more on expensive bank staff and immigration.

It's a fair point that skimping on wages ends up driving up costs with bank staff and in teaching supply teachers. So it's false economy in one sense to be skimping on wages to the point people are driven out.

The immigration argument normally ends up getting messy, but what not to forget about economic migrants (who are normally cheaper even if only as their training was abroad) is that they are easy come easy go... they have documents to travel and can go to various countries to do the same job.. many of them will speak multiple languages opening up even more opportunity. So it is very easy to lose them from the UK employment market entirely. Those are options home grown "captured" people don't have, and may well have even less of an option of soon.
 
So it seems that we're now arguing that it's not just fruit pickers who's wages are driven down by the sticky-plaster of immigrant labour, who could have guessed? :)
 
A question if we ever more pay people more then we ever more raising the costs of living more to pay people more, so we have to pay them more as the costs are more, etc Where will it end? Do you think it is sustainable?

I am certainly to adverse to my taxes being raised to sustain it . Your suggestion being that wages should remain stagnant accross the board . That's gonna be good for zero
They manage the next generation of nurses coming through the system. Plus those who choose not to pursue promotion for their own reasons.

As again if the next generation coming through with wages stagnant does this in itself pose a problem on recutment from within the UK ,as such is this why the NHS has to rely so much on staffing from outside the EU ?

I'm not stating facts here BTW just asking the question.
 
So it seems that we're now arguing that it's not just fruit pickers who's wages are driven down by the sticky-plaster of immigrant labour, who could have guessed? :)

Generally an entirely different set of immigrants though to be fair, that the Leave vote isn’t going to have any impact on ;)
 
So it seems that we're now arguing that it's not just fruit pickers who's wages are driven down by the sticky-plaster of immigrant labour, who could have guessed? :)

Like I said it gets messy.

Quick Google and 5% of nhs staff are eu nationals (not Brits!) And about 13% are "foriegn" but from how I read that report it may be higher.

The only party keeping wages low of NHS staff is their employer I.e. the government. They set taxes and borrowing and they can set wages. It's nothing like the private sector where there is no money tree.... the government can just tax us to death if it wants.... or print money (oh they do that don't they).

Anyone suggesting migrants are driving down NHS staff wages in the face of a recruitment shortage and the government being their employer is looking for a scape goat.

If it is the fault of the economic migrants (and let's be honest we are including highly skilled people here too) then what us going yo happen if they all leave because that would be best for those left right? The NHS will melt down as we don't have the capacity to replace them.
 
As again if the next generation coming through with wages stagnant does this in itself pose a problem on recutment from within the UK ,as such is this why the NHS has to rely so much on staffing from outside the EU ?
The vast majority of our nurses are British. Nurse training courses are still over subscribed.

Of course we still need to supplement this with foreign nurses (of which the single biggest country source is outside the EU incidentally).
 
Thanks for pulling up the band information. I’m going away today so will be a bit pushed but I’ll get my other half to copy all her wage slips for your if you like next week if you really don’t believe her.. The guidelines are just that and it’s determined by the Trust to implement the increments.

As I said before, this has hogged too much of the thread already. The fact is, you feel that someone who stays in the same role, for whatever reason, doesn’t deserve an annual performance-related rise and that’s fine, it’s your opinion.

Please do come back and post up some evidence to contradict the pay bands that clearly show on the RCN site that the top of pay band 5 has moved by circa £1000 between 2014/15 and 2017/18.

I'm all for people being paid fairly but your opening post is simply not believable, the hitting the top of a pay band is common is large private sector companies as well; it isn't just public sector workers being persecuted by whichever political party you don't care for.
 
Please do come back and post up some evidence to contradict the pay bands that clearly show on the RCN site that the top of pay band 5 has moved by circa £1000 between 2014/15 and 2017/18.

I'm all for people being paid fairly but your opening post is simply not believable, the hitting the top of a pay band is common is large private sector companies as well; it isn't just public sector workers being persecuted by whichever political party you don't care for.

You’ll be glad to know that I’ve just walked in the door after a 3 hour drive and I’m really excited about a random poster asking to see my wife’s payslips.

However, I’ve already said twice that I’ve hogged the thread enough so feel free to believe or ignore my post. It’s really not as exciting as you find it. Particularly the part where I said the bands on paper can say what they like but a real world payslip is what matters but hey, keep showing me numbers on a site :smashin:
 
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Please do come back and post up some evidence ... ...your opening post is simply not believable... persecuted by whichever political party you don't care for.

Welcome to the Politics forum. Great first post, please do come back when you are in a less frosty mood :D
 
My next door neighbours wife hasn't seen a pay rise in 9 years with HMRC - they've just been given 1.8%. That actually equates to a wage cut if you count in the cost of living increase over 9 years.

Quite dreadful how the past few governments have treated public sector workers. I think they realise that because much of the civil service are female employees they're unlikely to take industrial action, so take advantage of them.
 
My next door neighbours wife hasn't seen a pay rise in 9 years with HMRC - they've just been given 1.8%. That actually equates to a wage cut if you count in the cost of living increase over 9 years.
My next door neighbours regularly share details of their salaries with me too..... Cough.
 
I asked a chap three doors down from me but he told me to....he wasn't forthcoming with his salary details
 
My next door neighbour's wife left a box of OMO washing powder in the window.
 
My next door neighbours regularly share details of their salaries with me too..... Cough.
I don't recall I said my neighbour had shared the amount she gets paid but simply she hasn't seen a pay rise in 9 years plus the amount they have now been offered. I'm sure if you do a bit of sleuthing you can ascertain if this is correct or not.
 
I don't recall I said my neighbour had shared the amount she gets paid but simply she hasn't seen a pay rise in 9 years plus the amount they have now been offered. I'm sure if you do a bit of sleuthing you can ascertain if this is correct or not.
It's not correct.
 
My next door neighbours wife hasn't seen a pay rise in 9 years with HMRC - they've just been given 1.8%. That actually equates to a wage cut if you count in the cost of living increase over 9 years.

Quite dreadful how the past few governments have treated public sector workers. I think they realise that because much of the civil service are female employees they're unlikely to take industrial action, so take advantage of them.
It does not equate to a wage cut, the wage has staid the same. It has not been cut.
 
It's becoming obvious that if we truly cared about the starved, beaten and oppressed public sector workers (who are all modern day heroes), we should start by bringing an end to these evil Tory 'payrises', which are actually paycuts in disguise.

With 5.5m public sector employees in the UK a 5% paycut will lead to a deflationary reduction in the cost of living, which will mean the 5% 'cut' is actually an 11.42% pay rise, if you factor in the cost of living decrease.

Obviously it will take a few years for the deflationary trickle-down effect to take hold, so although it may sound like I'm talking complete bollocks, what we need to do is start making across the board public sector paycuts now, and big ones at that.

'Scrap the pay cap scrap', that's what we really need to be campaigning for. :D
 

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