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PT-AE100 vs PT-AE300

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Oxfordguy, Nov 25, 2003.

  1. Oxfordguy

    Oxfordguy
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    Hi Guys,

    As a long time owner of a PT-AE100 (very happy one indeed), I've just gone out and purchased a 300. I'm about to do a side by side comparison between them, but wanted to ask your opinions of the best way to do such a comparison.

    Firstly, I'm only using S-Video from a 200 disc Sony non-prog DVD. Secondly, I have no intention of using a HCPC, unless it's clear that I will get vastly superior results as I can't be bothered with the hassle.

    Third question, what's the best way to setup up the 300? I hear talk of AVIA, I assume this is a calibration disc, but where can I get one?

    Very last quesiton, anyone know how much a PT-AE100 is worth roughly speaking. It has around 600 hours use and no dead pixels.

    Thanks in advance.

    Ox
     
  2. chic

    chic
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    how much did you pay for your a300
     
  3. (GTV)Chris

    (GTV)Chris
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    I feel the only way to do a comparrison is by eye alone.
    I did this with three projectors before purchasing the AE100.
    Everybody see's things slightly different. It's subjective. And statistics mean nothing if you don't like what you see.
    I run my AE100 via a PC with very good results - I also run it in Wife mode from a prog scan DVD player - but there is a certain amount of ringing in the image and no where near the quality of the PC.
    I use AVIA and think all the test signals on both sound and vision are excellent. I bought it from either www.play.com or www.futureent.com for about £30. And it is well worth it.
    I am looking at upgrading soon so would love to know the results.
    But you will get a better image using RGB, Component or VGA.

    Cheers

    Chris
     
  4. theritz

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    Hi,


    The matter is entirely one for yourself, but I wonder why you would want to do such a comparison..................... it's clear on the basis of many posts here (and on avs) that the ae300 is a "better" projector than the AE100 - in terms of resolution and contrast, and has the added advantage (or disadvantage if you're Kramer !!) of smoothscreen technology.

    No desire to poyp, or be negative or discouraging, but can't see the point, tbh.

    Sean G.
     
  5. sweetmate

    sweetmate
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    You will get vastly superior results using an HCPC or even a prog scan dvd player via component than using a multichanger interlaced player.

    Amazed that you have bought 2 projectors and are using nowhere near the potential of either of them.
     
  6. pj

    pj
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    i would definitely try a pc just to see the improvement(do a search on here for the powerstrip 1:1 settings) i have a an AE100 and tried it first with svideo tosh 210(looked great) then tried a few prog scan players(looked amazing) then i tried the pc and have never looked back! it really is the best it can do(apart from d-vhs but i cant afford that yet!)
    i would try it just so u can see the difference! bet it looks even better on an AE300!
     
  7. wozwebs

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    Hi there - I also have an AE-100 and love it to bits. Currently connected to a Toshiba SD330 via a component cable. I think the picture is great but have yet to try my PC.

    If I were to then what would I need to get the best quality picture and also DD/DTS sound.

    A better graphics card? (Currently have a 64mb Radeon with S-Video TV-out)

    A new sound card? (Just have standard one at the moment)
    would it have an optical output socket?

    A lead to connect from sound card to PJ? (where can you get these from?)

    Sorry so many questions but if it can improve the picture then i'm all for it. Only thing that would concern me would be the extra noise from my tower. If I think the improvements warrant it then I would consider a HCPC option.

    Also what DVD software would you recommend? Currently have Win DVD Pro
     
  8. Oxfordguy

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    Thanks for the replies so Far. As to why I want to compare.... I purchased the AE300 from my father-in-law who works at Panasonic. I want to compare the two to see if my decision to buy the 300 was justified, as to be honest, I could sell the 300 and make a few quid whereas I'm making a loss by getting rid of the 100.

    The reason for not going down the PC route is that I have quite a nifty home setup going (IMO) whereby I have a 200 disc DVD and 400 disc CD player that enable me to start everything up from the comfort of my chair. I don't even have to put a disc in. The thing I especially like about the changer is that I can peruse my discs to decide what i want to watch that night.

    Yes I could do this via a catalogue, but this system has a bit more of the wow factor. What I would like is a 200,300, or 400 disc Prog scan player, but it seems these dvd changers have died a death with Sony, Kenwood, and Pioneer having discontinued their changers in the UK.

    If I do change, then I'll wait for a prog-scan DVD recorder as at least this is justifiable so that I can permenantly archive from Sky+.

    So, back to my original question; any got any idea what my 100 is worth, and just to add an extra question, should I have purchased then Sony HS-20 as although the 300 was a bargain, I can afford the HS-20 at a push.

    Oh, Screen wise I'm using a 102" Draper Luma 16:9. I do have a couple of PC's that I could use to setup a HCPC to try out. Any suggestions re software? I have an NVIDIA ti4200 and an Optical out on the soundcard. Is that sufficient?

    Thanks again guys. Also, for anyone that is interested, I've been extremely happy with the 100 out of a non-prog DVD for the last year. Just saying that as when I originally bought it, I thought it would be terrible without a HCPC. Having never seen one in action, I can't comment on how much better it is % wise. It'd be nice to know.
     
  9. (GTV)Chris

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    Maybe about £300 for a second hand AE100?
    I am thinking of going for a AE300 and would probably sell my AE100 for this amount with about 250 hours on it.
     
  10. Oxfordguy

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    Gosh, that's a big loss in a year. I bought mine for over a grand almost exactly one year ago. I really thought I'd get at least £400. But I just that's the way technology goes.
     
  11. sweetmate

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    Try it, you'll be amazed. Get a 1:1 pixel ratio, set up the dvd software correctly, calibrate with avia. You'll be amazed, interlaced via s-video will look like a tub of vaseline smeared on the lens by comparison. It far outweighs the "no need to get up off the sofa to watch a dvd" factor! :)

    P.S. Chris, I'll take your AE-100 for that figure. Is it a UK model?
     
  12. Bert Coules

    Bert Coules
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    "Try it, you'll be amazed..."

    I realise of course that this is the received opinion, but I have to say that when I tried it I wasn't in the least amazed. It seemed to me that the extra hassle, the extra noise and the added inconvenience were certainly not worth the very marginal improvement in picture quality over my standard Toshiba DVD player/Pro-V/AE-100 combination.

    Perhaps it's my eyes. Or perhaps (as others have said) it's because I prefer to look at the content rather than the quality. Either way, I think it's worth saying that these things are highly subjective: there is no absolute right or wrong, better or poorer...

    Bert
    http://www.bertcoules.co.uk
     
  13. (GTV)Chris

    (GTV)Chris
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    Dead right Bert.
    It is massively subjective.
    My wife can't tell the difference between my DVD player and my PC, Neither can my mate.
    But I see a vast difference. But let it be known that I have the Yamaha Prog scan machine component out which was only £150 - and I don't think it is particularly good.

    P.S - not sellin my Panny at the moment co's I can't afford the upgrade, sorry.
     
  14. Bert Coules

    Bert Coules
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    Chris,

    I drew a few rather disbelieving comments here a year or so back when I mentioned that I could quite happily watch a projected movie or a TV programme via composite video from a VHS recording - as long as I thought the programme worth watching in the first place.

    I understand and respect that some people quest after what they think of as the best attainable quality; it's a pity that - sometimes - there's not a lot of traffic in the opposite direction.

    Bert
    http://www.bertcoules.co.uk
     
  15. sweetmate

    sweetmate
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    But Chris you are comparing htpc with a prog scan dvd player via component video. Plug it in via s-video, turn off progressive scan and then tell me if the difference is subjective or visible to anyone with a pair of eyes.

    And Bert I'm sorry but you are talking nonsense, there is such a thing as better and worse quality. Just because it is of no interest to you, doesnt mean it isnt there.

    And as for

    what on earth does that mean? People should quest for the worst attainable quality? Wow remind me not to ask you advice for what to spend my money on!!
     
  16. calibos

    calibos
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    I'm with you Bert. I had convinced myself that my 1:1 PC was miles better than my regular DVD player with my old AE100. Circumstances for a few weeks meant that I had to disconnect the PC and not even use my dvd player but use my PS2 for dvd duties! I couldn't wait to get the PC hooked back up. When I eventually did I found myself saying to myself, "ya know it doesn't look much better than the PS2. I popped a copy of FOTR (I had 2 at the time) into both and synchronised both the PS2 and the PC and switched between inputs. I couldn't really see a difference, certainly not enough to warrant the hassle involved with the PC. This was a comparison between what accepted opinion states is the worst type of DVD source (PS2) and the best (PC)....and I couldn't tell the difference.

    While I can tell the difference between Composite and RGB fed to the PJ I cannot tell the difference between prog scan and interlaced because to my eyes the internal PJ scaler and de-interlacer are doing a grand job.
     
  17. sweetmate

    sweetmate
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    K PS2s for everyone it is then, forget those crappy progressive scan dvd players folks, and those stupid htpcs, if you want the cutting edge, top quality out of your projector, feed it a ps2, and the best bit is, a wired remote control, GENIUS!!!
     
  18. Oxfordguy

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    Acutally, I can see where both opinions are coming from. I haven't gone down the prog-scan or HTPC route for two reasons. Firstly, I like having all of my dvd's in one machine (also it's quite a pose), and secondly, I like the picture I get currently, so don't see the need to change.

    Before anyone comes back and asks why I've just bought a PT-AE300 as a replacement, well it's simply because it was so cheap that I could. If I don't think it's any better, I'll flog it.

    I guess you could compare this arguement to the 50Hz/100Hz TV debate. I've got a 32" panasonic 50Hz tv, and when I look at 100Hz sets, I think they're rubbish as they all seem to have artifacts when images move too quickly. I think I'm probably in the minority with my views, but I guess i am with my views on HTPC's.

    Phew, glad thats over. I'm off to try our the HTPC this weekend just so I have a proper opinion for the future having seen them both together.

    What's the current views on the ProV+??
     
  19. theritz

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    Keith,

    Ha!!! I'll ask Kramer to open a new forum for you - "Front Projection for the Blind" :D

    Oxfordguy,

    Interlaced DVD through a ProV is an improvement, but the AE100 still has to scale the XGA resolution to 852x484; where the pc really scores is that the signal is matched to the lcd panel perfectly, so both de-interlacing and scaling are done in the pc. The AE300 won't do a perfect 1:! ixel match, it just isn't capable of taking it, but it can still be driven at a near-match - do a search and you'll find other posts on that specific topic.

    Have fun trying it out...................

    Sean G.

    All the best,

    Sean.
     
  20. Bert Coules

    Bert Coules
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    My dear Sweetmate,

    "And Bert I'm sorry but you are talking nonsense, there is such a thing as better and worse quality."

    Well, it's kind of you to be sorry on my behalf, but there's really no need; quality - like beauty, goodness, purity and the perception of the excellence of audio-visual equipment - lies very firmly in the eye (and brain) of the beholder, and nowhere else. There are no absolutes.

    Originally posted by Bert Coules: I understand and respect that some people quest after what they think of as the best attainable quality; it's a pity that - sometimes - there's not a lot of traffic in the opposite direction.

    "what on earth does that mean?"


    Read it again: the meaning's perfectly clear: "sadly, some people are more intolerant than others..."

    I once knew a chap who hated colour television. It was his firm conviction that all programmes looked better in black and white. Did I agree with him? No. Did I believe that he was wrong? The question isn't relevant: on a matter of personal opinion, it's not possible to be wrong.

    If you can get to London (or a local library) I suggest seeing, or reading, the excellent philosophical murder-mystery musical acrobatic play "Jumpers" and absorbing what Tom Stoppard has to say on the subject of good and bad bacon sandwiches.

    Bert
    www.bertcoules.co.uk
     
  21. sweetmate

    sweetmate
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    Bert indeed there are no absolutes, but in AV there is a very definite range of quality of equipment, formats and connections. Sure its hard to hear the difference between an optical or coax digital connection (some say they can hear a difference, i cant) but there is a definite difference between say composite video and component video. THAT IS SCIENTIFIC FACT. There is no way you can dispute that. If there were no difference then why are tv programs mastered to digibeta stored in component form, why not on a nice vhs tape?
     
  22. nunew33

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    Bert im with you. My projector experience to date is a 480 by 640 200 CR 250 lumens with which which screen door is an understatement, more like polka dot vision. Source is a budget philips using composite. This is what my local film soc uses, I never notice the quality as Im usuually engaged in the film. Im sure I would notice the improement of Prog scan, 1:1 pixel mapping, RGB etc, but would it make the experience of the film any better?

    No IM (very subjective) O.
     
  23. Bert Coules

    Bert Coules
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    Sweetmate,

    "...there is a definite difference between say composite video and component video. THAT IS SCIENTIFIC FACT. There is no way you can dispute that."

    But I don't dispute it. What I'm arguing is that it's not possible to say that one is better than the other.

    Bert
    www.bertcoules.co.uk
     
  24. sweetmate

    sweetmate
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    Ok what I meant to say was that component video is a better storage method than composite video and THAT IS SCIENTIFIC FACT.

    From the Video essentials website (I'll skip the bit where component video is explained as I'm assuming you know what it is):

    "A composite video signal on the other hand contains all the information needed for the color picture in a single channel of information. Much higher program production quality is possible in the component domain because analog compression is used to place the three channels of component information into the single channel of composite information. Once that compression take place it is extremely difficult to get back the original quality of the component signal."

    The phrase to look at here is "Much higher program production quality". This is why tv programs are mastered to component digital video, this is why dvd is a component video source (as opposed to vhs and laserdisc which are composite).

    If you want to argue that "Much higher program production quality" does not qualify as any "better" in your eyes, then do so, but you will sound like a fool.
     
  25. Bert Coules

    Bert Coules
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    "If you want to argue that "Much higher program production quality" does not qualify as any "better" in your eyes, then do so, but you will sound like a fool."

    There's no need, surely, to descend to the level of personal abuse? This is a matter on which we disagree; that doesn't make either of us fools, or wrong (or right, come to that) - it simply makes us people who hold different opinions.

    On a question like perceived picture quality, there is no such thing as "better" - there's only highly subjective, personal reaction. You can quote all the science you want, but to someone who prefers his projected image soft, shaky, red-tinged and adorned with vertical banding, what you would see as the finest picture in the universe would be close to being the worst picture in the universe...

    Bert
    www.bertcoules.co.uk
     
  26. theritz

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    Sweetmeat,

    While don't agree with Bert's opinion as to the comparative benefits of one form of video transmission as opposed to another, the following is uncalled for:

    Bert is right (and very far from a fool, as posters here would know from long experience), as is Calibos.......... at the end of the day when you spend your money, and you're happy with the result (be it composite video from a VCR, or anything else ) then someone with a view that it can be "better" with different technology etc. is not in a position to insult them if that person doesn't see the difference, or is happy with the setup they have.

    Sean G.
     
  27. sweetmate

    sweetmate
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    Look, Bert, the ritz, calibos and whoever else, as far as quality of video source, component video is better than composite. End of discussion. I've presented my reasons and evidence for this, if you feel composite is better, prove to me why it is, and dont just say, because my eye says so or because i like my video to be "soft, shaky, red-tinged and adorned with vertical banding". :rolleyes:
     
  28. Bert Coules

    Bert Coules
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    Sweetmate,

    Quite clearly this discussion has more than run its useful course, but I'll have just one more go at explaining what it is I've been trying to make you see...

    "if you feel composite is better, prove to me why it is..."

    I don't feel that. I've never said that I do.

    What I feel is that the whole concepts of "better and worse" (let alone "proof") are totally meaningless in this context: what I find good another person might well find totally unacceptable, and vice versa.

    There aren't universal standards, only personal ones: and while I grant that the overall weight of opinion does indeed bend in certain directions, that doesn't invalidate the beliefs of those who choose to lean against the wind rather than with it.

    Now do you see?

    Bert
    www.bertcoules.co.uk
     
  29. popeckia

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    Surely the issue here isn't (and from having just read the entire thread, wasn't ever) about which connection is the best. It is far more about saying that the difference is either imperctible to some, or sufficiently small that other factors come into play.

    I do happen to use my PC for most viewing on my projector, including running sky through it and using dscaler, because I personally can perceive just enough advantage to make it worth it.

    However, it's a huge aggrovation and sometimes I tear the s-video lead out of the back of the PC in frustration and plug it straight into the projector.

    Quality really isn't everything, and sweetmate is obviously getting a little over-excited about all this. It's quality, cost, aggrovation, and indeed personal perception.... and that is all that people have been trying to say
     
  30. sweetmate

    sweetmate
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    Bert I understand what you are saying, I just think its incorrect!!!

    There are cases where everything is down to personal opinion (ie this projector looks better than this one, or i prefer this screen because it has a warmer look or more contrast etc, etc). This is especially true in the area of sound quality and formats, but when it comes to video standards and connections THERE ARE UNIVERSAL STANDARDS. This is why TV shows are mastered using the highest quality format and system possible within budgetary constraints (that’s digibeta via component connections in this country). This is why a film or expensive TV show is shot on high quality film and not vhs camcorder. This is why DVD mastering is a process of achieving the highest quality encode within a given bit constraint. And so on and so on...

    Now if a home user feels there is no difference to their eye or ear and do not feel Format/Connection A is sufficiently better than Format/Connection B to warrant the effort/money then so be it, I can totally agree with that. But if it is widely acknowledged by both the industry and the customer base that Format A is a better delivery format than format B, then they have to acknowledge that that is the case, regardless of their personal opinion.

    For example I acknowledge that HD is a better format than DVD. I do not currently have the means or feel I need to buy a dvhs player and other necessary equipment, but I do understand and acknowledge that it is a better format, even though DVD suits me just fine (for now :))

    If not Bert, why do you own DVDs and a DVD player? Is it solely for extras? Or sound formats? Why didn’t you stick to vhs only? If you are about to sit down to watch a favourite film of yours, would you pop in the vhs copy or the DVD, assuming you had the choice?
     

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