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King Tones

Distinguished Member

mark1080p

Well-known Member
As daft as it sounds have a look at the Minecraft RTX videos. Maybe even the Control ones too.

I think the raytracing will be a big feature as it brings in a lot more reality to games.
I must admit I’m judging this based on a video via YouTube on my iPhone. Maybe when I see the effects on my main tv I may change my mind
 

Lancia34

Distinguished Member
I must admit I’m judging this based on a video via YouTube on my iPhone. Maybe when I see the effects on my main tv I may change my mind
Ray Tracing is a massive win for gaming in that step closer to photo realism. It follows in the footsteps on anti aliasing, bump mapping, 3D acceleration etc... to provide a subtle but massive keep in realism.
When done well it can be truly stunning and close to cinematic CGI.
 

Stinja

Distinguished Member
I’m struggling to see what it’s going to really add to the gaming experience?
Better graphics.

Then it comes down to what one wants in games, and unfortunately IMO too many people got caught up in chasing shiny looking stuff. Marketing people love it, because you can't show better mechanics or better AI in a magazine picture; profit-driven pubs/devs as its faster and easier to make something look better than play better; hardware makers can push out new stuff each year, for spec-superioritists can show off how much "better" their system is than others.

Don't get me wrong, games have got better, but "what if" we'd chased graphics as a secondary factor.
Take enemy AI, games like FEAR or even MGS2 got lauded at the time, 2019 and you've got so-called AAA games with AI routines that would have been embarrassing 15 years ago.
We still have enemies unrealistically spawning, when again in the mid 2000s a game like Rainbow Six Vegas's terrorist hunt had all enemies placed on the map at the start, do rudimentary stuff, and only react when alerted by the player. Ditto Operation Flashpoint games, letting you scout and plan, because you could actually check and see the enemies.

For me i'm really hoping next gen does more than plop out ray-tracing, 4K and 60fps, but that seems to be the push, and what resources are going to be left after that?
 

mark1080p

Well-known Member
Take enemy AI, games like FEAR or even MGS2 got lauded at the time, 2019 and you've got so-called AAA games with AI routines that would have been embarrassing 15 years ago.
Yes totally agree.

We still have games, where if you shoot someone on a flight of stairs. Half of the body defies gravity and hovers, whilst the other half can go through walls?! Or take down 2 enemies within close proximity their bodies merge into 1 on the floor.

I think basic ai mechanics should at least be able to mimic the laws of gravity FOR all AAA Games at least
 

silvercue

Distinguished Member
Better graphics.

Then it comes down to what one wants in games, and unfortunately IMO too many people got caught up in chasing shiny looking stuff........

Don't get me wrong, games have got better, but "what if" we'd chased graphics as a secondary factor.
Take enemy AI, games like FEAR or even MGS2 got lauded at the time, 2019 and you've got so-called AAA games with AI routines that would have been embarrassing 15 years ago.
We still have enemies unrealistically spawning, when again in the mid 2000s a game like Rainbow Six Vegas's terrorist hunt had all enemies placed on the map at the start, do rudimentary stuff, and only react when alerted by the player. Ditto Operation Flashpoint games, letting you scout and plan, because you could actually check and see the enemies.

For me i'm really hoping next gen does more than plop out ray-tracing, 4K and 60fps, but that seems to be the push, and what resources are going to be left after that?
Mmmmmmmmm shiny......

Although more seriously there are some good points there. Not sure the lack of development in some areas is a consequence of improved graphics, but there may be a relationship.

Some areas of game development or lack of it do puzzle me. I still believe that Quake 3 was a far better online experience, for anyone with a decent connection, than many modern shooters. This still has me scratching me head.
 
I think part of the issue with AI developemnt is that is very vary hard to progress it and if you fail to get it working then its wasted time and a big cost. With graphic development its much less risky and you can higher a group of artists and crack on with its, also some game houses are using 3rd party engines (unreal etc) so these engines are progressing all the time as they are a business in themselves and generate money. I dont know if there is similar in the AI world for games, maybe.

I am not saying this doesnt or shouldnt be worked on but every year the graphic side of things improves and always will as there is a whole industry around it as ultimately that is a driving force for sales, where as AI being OK in your game rather than pushing the boundaries of what has gone before less so. So I expect better graphic and hope for better AI.
 

Darth_terra

Distinguished Member
Something to add with regards to raytracing is it's not just for visuals it can also be used for audio something Sony is making a big deal of with their 3D audio, Audio is something that barely gets any mention or improvement but is just as important you only have to look at Movies and the changes there with audio via Dolby Atmos and DTS-X, Sony clearly sees this as something that needs changing for games also and I think could be a bigger game-changer than some might think.
 

FadgewackeR

Distinguished Member
Something to add with regards to raytracing is it's not just for visuals it can also be used for audio something Sony is making a big deal of with their 3D audio, Audio is something that barely gets any mention or improvement but is just as important you only have to look at Movies and the changes there with audio via Dolby Atmos and DTS-X, Sony clearly sees this as something that needs changing for games also and I think could be a bigger game-changer than some might think.
Only if people have the systems in place to make the most of it, of course.
 

Flawed Tactics

Active Member
A soundbar with a subwoofer will do me fine next gen and beyond
 

Stinja

Distinguished Member
I think part of the issue with AI developemnt is that is very vary hard to progress it and if you fail to get it working then its wasted time and a big cost.
We could choose to make better AI and other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win, and the others, too.
 
We could choose to make better AI and other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win, and the others, too.
Aspiration, let me introduce you to business he is over there with by the drinks table next to profit.
 

apolloa

Distinguished Member
If that happens then like with the PS4, they will not be showing the console to the public and instead we will have to wait several months before we see it, that’s what they did with the PS4, a closed private event where no photos leaked of the consoles, a few specs were but nothing major and that was it, until E3 when they showed it to the public and announced all the specs etc.

Sony are the ultimate p**** teasers.
 

Darth_terra

Distinguished Member
If that happens then like with the PS4, they will not be showing the console to the public and instead we will have to wait several months before we see it, that’s what they did with the PS4, a closed private event where no photos leaked of the consoles, a few specs were but nothing major and that was it, until E3 when they showed it to the public and announced all the specs etc.

Sony are the ultimate p**** teasers.
Sony are no longer interested in E3 so there won't be the need to do any of that, they will most likely show PS5 at the event.
 

apolloa

Distinguished Member
Some good news!! Now that Trump has decided not to whack a 25% tariff on Chinese goods, it means the next gen consoles will be cheaper then you thought and manufactures will continue to make goods in China.
Apparently Sony Microsoft and Nintendo all ganged up together to lobby Trump not to put the tariffs on, because it would damage sales and the games industry.

I won’t guess on a price though as the rumours are all pointing to a lot of tech in these new machines.
 

Stinja

Distinguished Member
… next gen consoles will be cheaper then you thought and manufactures will continue to make goods in China.
Remember kids: don't lick your consoles!

Don't know if they'll be cheaper, more likely the price has already been considered, and just goes up due to local taxes etc.
Current PS4 prices vary a bit: Worldwide Playstation 4 Prices Compared
So like that if the cost was going to be £X, with Trump-taxes it'd be £X+Y, now it's back to £X, and not going to magically lower.
 

apolloa

Distinguished Member
Remember kids: don't lick your consoles!

Don't know if they'll be cheaper, more likely the price has already been considered, and just goes up due to local taxes etc.
Current PS4 prices vary a bit: Worldwide Playstation 4 Prices Compared
So like that if the cost was going to be £X, with Trump-taxes it'd be £X+Y, now it's back to £X, and not going to magically lower.
Nope, Sony Microsoft and Nintendo all state their console prices would have gone up with this tariff including new consoles. They are businesses and aren’t going to swallow a 25% increase.
 
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Remember kids: don't lick your consoles!

Don't know if they'll be cheaper, more likely the price has already been considered, and just goes up due to local taxes etc.
Current PS4 prices vary a bit: Worldwide Playstation 4 Prices Compared
So like that if the cost was going to be £X, with Trump-taxes it'd be £X+Y, now it's back to £X, and not going to magically lower.
Agree if they were $400 they were going to be $500 with a 25% tariff now they will be $400 again
 

apolloa

Distinguished Member
Whatever they price it at, they’ll need to be very careful as the Switch is flying off the shelves with no slowdown, and it has two price tiers.
 

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