PS4/PS5 crossover titles

sleepylaser

Well-known Member
What sort of crossgen improvements are people expecting from the likes of LOU2 and ghosts of Tsushima? I’m assuming that these will be the biggest cross-gen PlayStation games of the year.

Worth waiting to play them on ps5?
 
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Darth_terra

Distinguished Member
There is nothing to say that they will get PS5 updates, LOU2 has no release at all at the moment and whilst Ghost of Tsushima is still on for 26th June that could change at any moment.

The only game I know that is cross-gen is Cyberpunk 2077 which CD Projekt Red confirmed, I'm going to wait for Sony or the devs to announce if any PS5 updates are coming first.
 

Waynej

Distinguished Member
First-party AAA titles are highly likely to get a PS5 patch, there's so few next-gen exclusives at launch that this is a real must for Sony and Microsoft to push with their own exclusives. Gears 5 is already confirmed to be working at 100+fps for Series X. I would typically anticipate uncapping to be the norm for a lot of games so resolution and framerate can attempt to hit there ceiling target.

A lot of titles won't need much work doing at all if third party titles like Wolfenstein The New Colossus are any indication - with its dynamic resolution and uncapped framerate.

Such options are clearly present to take advantage of the new consoles with minimal input by the developer from the consoles respective launches. There will obviously be cases where patches are in the works and better optimised. For example, if I recall correctly, God of War has a 1080p performance mode. I'd expect that to hit 60fps comfortably, though being first-party perhaps the devs will go in and offer a third option to also incorporate resolution scaling so it can max at 4K and adjust down accordingly to maintain 60fps.

I would be really surprised if The Last of Us II does not have a dedicated PS5 patch. If the Part 1 remaster is any indication, PS4 Pro went up to 1800p 60fps and native 4K 30fps. I'd expect there to be a locked 60fps option on the PS5 whilst targeting or checkerboard scaling to 4K. In other words, basically a third step-up option over the PS4 Pro's options.
 

Nemesis X2

Distinguished Member
I also wouldn't be surprised to see cross-buy on first party titles.
Totally agree. I think Sony expected to launch LOU2 and Ghosts on PS4, make a fortune and then 6 months later release PS5 versions to cash in again. Equally launch PS5 versions of God of War, Spiderman etc. I thibk they've been put in a bit of a spot by Microsoft and also CDPR stating any next gen version / patch will be free if you buy on current gen. If they planned the same I'd expect they would've stated as such by now....

Who knows but it would be easy cash in for them and they've a history of it, however remasters from PS3-4 were justified as had to be redone from Cell to x86 development so a lot of work went into them. From ps4-5 though its X86-X86 so little more than upping settings on a PC title hence a bit of a rip off to cash in.
 

Waynej

Distinguished Member
Totally agree. I think Sony expected to launch LOU2 and Ghosts on PS4, make a fortune and then 6 months later release PS5 versions to cash in again. Equally launch PS5 versions of God of War, Spiderman etc. I thibk they've been put in a bit of a spot by Microsoft and also CDPR stating any next gen version / patch will be free if you buy on current gen. If they planned the same I'd expect they would've stated as such by now....

Who knows but it would be easy cash in for them and they've a history of it, however remasters from PS3-4 were justified as had to be redone from Cell to x86 development so a lot of work went into them. From ps4-5 though its X86-X86 so little more than upping settings on a PC title hence a bit of a rip off to cash in.
I think that's well and truly a thing of the past now, it just wouldn't pass anymore following the mid-gen refresh we've already had.

We're now accustomed to upgrades for consoles for the first time in the console space. In typical PC fashion the devs are likely to create similar presets for their cross-gen console games, much like they would for PC. So for example PS4 could be the PC equivalant to Medium, PS4 Pro is High and PS5 is Ultra. You pop the game disc in on either box and it defaults to the dev's recommended pre-set.

You can see the pattern emerging already with more recent games even on Xbox One X no longer hitting that 4K mark with recent titles like Doom Eternal, next-gen PS5 and Series X are already the 4K target. I believe it's 1800p 60fps on Xbox One X with dynamic resolution scaling, so on PS5 and Series X this will likely just max out at 4K.
 

Nemesis X2

Distinguished Member
I think that's well and truly a thing of the past now, it just wouldn't pass anymore following the mid-gen refresh we've already had.

We're now accustomed to upgrades for consoles for the first time in the console space. In typical PC fashion the devs are likely to create similar presets for their cross-gen console games, much like they would for PC. So for example PS4 could be the PC equivalant to Medium, PS4 Pro is High and PS5 is Ultra. You pop the game disc in on either box and it defaults to the dev's recommended pre-set.

You can see the pattern emerging already with more recent games even on Xbox One X no longer hitting that 4K mark with recent titles like Doom Eternal, next-gen PS5 and Series X are already the 4K target. I believe it's 1800p 60fps on Xbox One X with dynamic resolution scaling, so on PS5 and Series X this will likely just max out at 4K.
I agree, thats what should happen as MS have confirmed their end, but the fact Sony have not said anything seems potentially ominous.

Equally you cant use the PS Pro updates as a gauge because they were still PS4 games played on variants of the PS4, hence they had no choice. Going up to PS5 i can definitely see Sony releasing different versions for each generation. I really hope they dont, but i just wouldnt be surprised if they try to cash in on the double dippers.
 

zt1903

Distinguished Member
Totally agree. I think Sony expected to launch LOU2 and Ghosts on PS4, make a fortune and then 6 months later release PS5 versions to cash in again. Equally launch PS5 versions of God of War, Spiderman etc. I thibk they've been put in a bit of a spot by Microsoft and also CDPR stating any next gen version / patch will be free if you buy on current gen. If they planned the same I'd expect they would've stated as such by now....

Who knows but it would be easy cash in for them and they've a history of it, however remasters from PS3-4 were justified as had to be redone from Cell to x86 development so a lot of work went into them. From ps4-5 though its X86-X86 so little more than upping settings on a PC title hence a bit of a rip off to cash in.
You're not being very consistent there. Did Sony "cash-in" with TLOU on PS4 or was it a genuine remaster requiring a lot of work because of cell to x86? ;)

I don't really see any evidence that they plan to "cash in" on TLOU2 or Ghosts of Tshushima. Sony have already confirmed backwards compatibility for physical and digital PS4 games, and that the vast majority will be compatible with a boosted mode on PS5 allowing games to run with higher frames and resolution - Cerny said they'd already tested the top 100 games in this mode. I don't see this as been any different to offering a "next-gen patch". Tbh I just don't see the opportunity to resell a remaster this time around.

I don't think they've been put in a spot by CDPR either. 3rd parties are at liberty to offer upgrades on cross-gen if they wish, on whatever platforms they wish. Last time around this happened with COD Ghost and Assassin's Creed IV.
 

sleepylaser

Well-known Member
So are we expecting just increased resolution/frame rates, due to unlocked elements in the existing PS4 code? Or can we look forward to developers actually adding to the code for ps5 versions of PS4 games? Can we look forward to ray tracing in Ghosts of Tsushima for example?
 

Nemesis X2

Distinguished Member
You're not being very consistent there. Did Sony "cash-in" with TLOU on PS4 or was it a genuine remaster requiring a lot of work because of cell to x86? ;)

I don't really see any evidence that they plan to "cash in" on TLOU2 or Ghosts of Tshushima. Sony have already confirmed backwards compatibility for physical and digital PS4 games, and that the vast majority will be compatible with a boosted mode on PS5 allowing games to run with higher frames and resolution - Cerny said they'd already tested the top 100 games in this mode. I don't see this as been any different to offering a "next-gen patch". Tbh I just don't see the opportunity to resell a remaster this time around.

I don't think they've been put in a spot by CDPR either. 3rd parties are at liberty to offer upgrades on cross-gen if they wish, on whatever platforms they wish. Last time around this happened with COD Ghost and Assassin's Creed IV.
Fair point , cash in maybe the wrong wording re the PS4 remasters because they did need to rework them for different architecture. But if they did similar from 4-5 it would be.

You mention back compat but this isnt the same thing. Back compat will allow you ro play a PS4 game on PS5 and you may get some minor benefits to fps, resolution etc. We're not talking about back compat we're talking about games that will launch on both consoles, and therefore be significantly different due to the hardware. MS have confirmed for the likes of Halo Infinite etc if you buy on current gen, if and when you upgrade your console, your machine will automatically install the next gen version. You won't have to pay for the same game twice. Thats what CDPR confirmed for Cyberpunk also.

Given how close their releases are to their next gen hardware launch id be amazed if Sony havent been working on PS5 versions of their two big releases this year to take advantage of the tech.
 

Waynej

Distinguished Member
There's a little too much overthinking going on here, I think. ;)

Forget the fact that this is a jump to the next-generation, that only applies to games released on next-gen hardware only. As far as cross-gen titles go, the existing code doesn't care if the step-up consoles are called PS4 Pro and next-gen PS5. To the game both those boxes will simply be considered more powerful current-gen PS4's.

You can use The Last of Us II as an example, like the previous game it will likely have different modes. Obviously first-party studios will already have PS5 dev-kits so they can optimise a patch for PS5 specifically.

What I suspect most third-parties will do given the time they have to cater for various platforms, is they'll likely just offer an optional capped 60fps mode and leave dynamic resolution scalling in play. This way they have already nailed-in framerate, which would be the most jarring aspect if let unchecked, and instead rather leave the resolution to adjust accordingly. We should be looking at native 4K given the GPU bump on offer for next-gen consoles. There is the potential to go above 60fps too for current-gen titles that already offer this on existing hardware. However, I don't think Sony will emphasise that possibility if they don't have their own branded TV's ready to take advantage of it. I guess that overhead though could well prove more beneficial for the future of PS VR.

At this point I am just eager to get my hands on The Last of Us II, and it's the multiplayer I am hoping to see come to fruition still as this will be what keeps me coming back to it regularly over the following year or two.

Given the game's delay, with no release date in-sight now, I am currently contemplating selling my PS4 Pro and then waiting patiently for PS5. I mainly play on Xbox One X with Game Pass and use PlayStation for exclusives.
 
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Nemesis X2

Distinguished Member
There's a little too much overthinking going on here, I think. ;)

Forget the fact that this is a jump to the next-generation, that only applies to games released on next-gen hardware only. As far as cross-gen titles go, the existing code doesn't care if the step-up consoles are called PS4 Pro and next-gen PS5. To the game both those boxes will simply be considered more powerful current-gen PS4's.

You can use The Last of Us II as an example, like the previous game it will likely have different modes. Obviously first-party studios will already have PS5 dev-kits so they can optimise a patch for PS5 specifically.

What I suspect most third-parties will do given the time they have to cater for various platforms, is they'll likely just offer an optional capped 60fps mode and leave dynamic resolution scalling in play. This way they have already nailed-in framerate, which would be the most jarring aspect if let unchecked, and instead rather leave the resolution to adjust accordingly. We should be looking at native 4K given the GPU bump on offer for next-gen consoles. There is the potential to go above 60fps too for current-gen titles that already offer this on existing hardware. However, I don't think Sony will emphasise that possibility if they don't have their own branded TV's ready to take advantage of it. I guess that overhead though could well prove more beneficial for the future of PS VR.

At this point I am just eager to get my hands on The Last of Us II, and it's the multiplayer I am hoping to see come to fruition still as this will be what keeps me coming back to it regularly over the following year or two.

Given the game's delay, with no release date in-sight now, I am currently contemplating selling my PS4 Pro and then waiting patiently for PS5. I mainly play on Xbox One X with Game Pass and use PlayStation for exclusives.
You're making assumptions there. The fact Sony have been silent on the matter is the point im making. It wouldnt surprise me at all if they released a PS4 and PS5 version of games. Then if PS4 version played back compat would only get basic back compat benefits not the full fat PS5 version which is what MS have committed to.

Hopefully Sony follow suit but they've given no indicators yet to suggest otherwise.
 

zt1903

Distinguished Member
You're making assumptions there. The fact Sony have been silent on the matter is the point im making. It wouldnt surprise me at all if they released a PS4 and PS5 version of games. Then if PS4 version played back compat would only get basic back compat benefits not the full fat PS5 version which is what MS have committed to.

Hopefully Sony follow suit but they've given no indicators yet to suggest otherwise.
What exactly have MS committed to though?

They may have marketed it more but unless I've missed something they're not offering anything more. "Smart Delivery" doesn't seem to promise anything particularly different to the PS5 offering BC with PS4 games in a boosted mode.

Much ado about nothing IMO.

The more important difference is that PS5 is going to launch with games that are designed for and are only playable on the PS5 whilst the Series X is going to launch with "enhanced" XBO games.
 

Waynej

Distinguished Member
You're making assumptions there. The fact Sony have been silent on the matter is the point im making. It wouldnt surprise me at all if they released a PS4 and PS5 version of games. Then if PS4 version played back compat would only get basic back compat benefits not the full fat PS5 version which is what MS have committed to.

Hopefully Sony follow suit but they've given no indicators yet to suggest otherwise.
Assumptions go both ways though, as you're assuming they'll have a specific dedicated PS5 copy of a current generation game.

I'm not saying you're wrong, no-one can say for sure, but I do assume cross-gen will be a priority.

A case could be made last-gen for titles like Last of Us Remastered given they were built specifically for the PS3. This generation we basically had a fixed-spec gaming PC's with a console OS. To my limited knowledge this also appears to be the case for next-gen too. It's borderline the same as the current generation - and devs love familiarity of course - but now there's finally a serious consideration for both CPU and GPU to ensure we can hit those higher framerates alongside the expected resolution bump. The main standout benefit besides 60fps presumably being the minimum standard, is of course the jump to an SSD.

It's just simpler to think of a PS4 enhanced game as a cross-gen title, much like PC presets. There will likely be a recommended preset for PS4, PS4 Pro and PS5. Naturally you would expect the latter to target 4K 60fps, and work in reverse down to 1800/1440p for PS4 Pro and then 1080/900p for base PS4, and also reduced to 30fps.

But you're right, all we can do is make assumptions at this point. Ultimately any PS4 game is likely just to treat the PS5 as a PS4 Pro v2. It's not until we get games that no longer factor in the previous generation that things will take a more significant leap forward.

The same applies to Xbox Series X and Halo Infinite. We are talking about a cross-gen game that is planned to coincide with the launch of the Series X console. I'd be far more excited though if this game did not have to cater for the base Xbox One or One X at all. As ultimately besides the differences in resolution and framerate, the vision and scope for the game has to keep in mind the lowest spec box, therefore you can only ever have the same amount of characters/enemies on-screen and the playground of the world can't be extended beyond the capabilities of the last-gen box. Furthermore, this is the reason why I am going PS5 first, because Microsoft are commited to their exclusives being cross-gen for a few years. So I can just play on my Xbox One X at 1800p or so below the 4K target of the Series X version, but it'll obviously still be the same game.
 

sleepylaser

Well-known Member
What exactly have MS committed to though?

They may have marketed it more but unless I've missed something they're not offering anything more. "Smart Delivery" doesn't seem to promise anything particularly different to the PS5 offering BC with PS4 games in a boosted mode.

Much ado about nothing IMO.

The more important difference is that PS5 is going to launch with games that are designed for and are only playable on the PS5 whilst the Series X is going to launch with "enhanced" XBO games.
You’ve missed the series x version of Gears 5, which appears to be more than just taking advantage of unlocked frame rate.

Xbox cross gen compatability has been a strength for some time. Microsoft’s pc experience is probably a key differentiator in that.

We are still waiting to see whether Sony can improve on cross-gen, and we are still waiting to see if ps5 really will realise the promise of next-gen any more than series x will ‘at launch’.

Ps5 will be awesome but there’s no doubt in my mind that Microsoft will ace the cross-gen test, whereas with Sony I’m yet to be convinced.

Bring on the games!
 

Nemesis X2

Distinguished Member
Your effectively highlighting what should be happening re natural scaling like PC etc, but Sony haven't confirmed this whereas MS have. Buy one game get the best version based on hardware etc. There could be significant differences in cross gen versions of any games not just FPS and res, obviously, and back compat PS4 games may just bump the basics not effectively become the full blown ps5 version.

As for back compat, Sony haven't even sussed out fully hence "hope" to have the most played 100 for launch. As for the vague statements on the rest the key point many choose to overlook is they've stated if any work needs doing to make a PS4 game work the the Devs will need to do it. Most Devs unless have a financial incentive such as dlc to sell or a pending sequel so want to generate franchise interest etc probably won't bother, meaning many games won't be back compat and a lot of users left disappointed if their favourite games don't fall in the list. Even some that do get sorted may be years down the line it's very vague at best.
 

zt1903

Distinguished Member
Your effectively highlighting what should be happening re natural scaling like PC etc, but Sony haven't confirmed this whereas MS have. Buy one game get the best version based on hardware etc. There could be significant differences in cross gen versions of any games not just FPS and res, obviously, and back compat PS4 games may just bump the basics not effectively become the full blown ps5 version.

As for back compat, Sony haven't even sussed out fully hence "hope" to have the most played 100 for launch. As for the vague statements on the rest the key point many choose to overlook is they've stated if any work needs doing to make a PS4 game work the the Devs will need to do it. Most Devs unless have a financial incentive such as dlc to sell or a pending sequel so want to generate franchise interest etc probably won't bother, meaning many games won't be back compat and a lot of users left disappointed if their favourite games don't fall in the list. Even some that do get sorted may be years down the line it's very vague at best.
That's just not true Cerny specifically addressed it. It's what he was talking about in relation to this graphic:



And Sony have confirmed full BC, the testing of the most played 100 was in relation to the boosted mode.


With all of the amazing games in PS4’s catalog, we’ve devoted significant efforts to enable our fans to play their favorites on PS5. We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5
Note: they will never say all, neither will MS, as there will always be poorly optimised games that won't run properly.
 

zt1903

Distinguished Member
You’ve missed the series x version of Gears 5, which appears to be more than just taking advantage of unlocked frame rate.

Xbox cross gen compatability has been a strength for some time. Microsoft’s pc experience is probably a key differentiator in that.

We are still waiting to see whether Sony can improve on cross-gen, and we are still waiting to see if ps5 really will realise the promise of next-gen any more than series x will ‘at launch’.

Ps5 will be awesome but there’s no doubt in my mind that Microsoft will ace the cross-gen test, whereas with Sony I’m yet to be convinced.

Bring on the games!
How do you work that out? I never said that the improvements were restricted to frame rates. My basic point is that both consoles are going to see a potential for dialled up settings on prior gen games, without a need for further optimisation on the part of the developer. Some devs may choose to have enhanced versions of cross-gen games too. So what?

It appears that Gears 5 is going to run on Series X at 4K/60fps with similar to PC Ultra settings as opposed to 4K/30 on the One X. Great. I'm sure it'll look nice.
 

Nemesis X2

Distinguished Member
That's just not true Cerny specifically addressed it. It's what he was talking about in relation to this graphic:



And Sony have confirmed full BC, the testing of the most played 100 was in relation to the boosted mode.




Note: they will never say all, neither will MS, as there will always be poorly optimised games that won't run properly.
You're wrong. That graphic is not the same thing. The clue is I'm the heading, its referring to back compat which is not even close to the same thing.

As for the 100 there was reference to boost, but he said "nearly all of them will be playable at launch". Playable, not enhanced, and less than 100. As for the later statement they released to say the majority will be playable on ps5, I'm well aware of that and referred to it, but it doesn't suggest a timeframe so some games may be years off and many will need Devs to make them work and many won't bother. On Xbox it's all handled by MS so Devs just need to green light it.

As for not saying all, of course not as there's sometimes issues with licensing for in game music etc causing legal problems as covered for 360 as an example on Xbox, so to then play on Xbox One causes complications contractually. But the way Sony have detailed things there'll be a lot more that are never back compatible for other reasons.
 

zt1903

Distinguished Member
There are three BC modes:
  • Native Mode - Fully unlocks the GPU at 2.23GHz for next-gen games
  • PS4 Pro Legacy Mode - Drops the GPU to 911MHz with 218GB/sec bandwidth, and 64 ROPs to emulate the PS4 Pro
  • PS4 Legacy Mode - Drops the GPU to 800MHz with 176GB/sec bandwidth and 32 ROPs to emulate the base PS4
What Mark Cerny actually said was:

"Running PS4 titles at boosted frequencies has also added complexity. The boost is truly massive this time around and some game code just can't handle it. Testing has to be done on a title by title basis. Results are excellent though, we recently took a look at the top hundred PS4 titles as ranked by playtime and we're expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch on PS5."

Cerny is clearly talking about running PS4 games boosted in the Native Mode and talks about having already tested 100 games. Where they are not tested to work in native mode then they'll work in one of the legacy modes (depending on whether they had a Pro patch or not) hence the clarification about the overwhelming majority of the catalogue.

Why would Cerny talk about games being playable with boosted frequencies if that didn't do anything? Why play them on boosted frequencies if they can run downclocked in PS4/Pro mode. What's the distinction between the 100 and 4,000+ if we're not talking about boost.

The comms has certainly been capable of interpretation but what you're suggesting isn't logical.

Digital Foundry agree.

 

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