PS4 Discussion - PC Gamer's PoV w/ No Flaming!

Will You Buy The PS4?

  • YES, YES, YES! TAKE MY MONEYS!

    Votes: 6 16.2%
  • No. The presentation sucked balls.

    Votes: 1 2.7%
  • I'm a PC gamer brah. Consoles suq.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I will wait for the Xbox 720 press conference before I make up my mind.

    Votes: 16 43.2%
  • I want to wait for pricing and final hardware details.

    Votes: 7 18.9%
  • I'm buying both the 720 and PS4, because I'm richer than all of you!

    Votes: 7 18.9%

  • Total voters
    37
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Tall_Paul

Distinguished Member
1st question...... what would be the cost of the components listed within the PS4 spec actually cost if it was a PC?

I think what Sony did was very cleaver. They demonstrated what the box will be capable of doing while partually avoiding getting too mixed up with the specifications. People get too obsessed with the specs and loose sight of the end goal.

The real question is whether Sony have achieved the next gen gaming platform at a target price or not?

If people were expecting the PS4 would rival in power a high end desktop PC (i7, top flight GPU) for £400 - they are off their rocker!

So the PS4 doesn't have to be faster than a supercomputer... it just needs to be good enough to run the games at the target resolution (to 1080p).

The PS3 processing power is pretty poor by today's PC standards, but the game performance the game houses squeeze out of it is very impressive.
Rough retail prices:

7850 GPU - £150
CPU - £80

Although it's a combined CPU & GPU APU so probably looking at about £100, jaguar hasn't been released yet, the a10 5800k APU is the top of the line desktop version and costs £100.

500GB HDD - £40
PSU - £40
Motherboard - £60
8GB System ram (DDR3 so nowhere near as expensive as GDDR5) £40
Blu-ray drive - £30

Total Retail price around £400 ish

It works out about right, I'd expect retail price of the PS4 to be between £300 and £400, £300 being a 320GB version and £400 being a 1TB version.
 
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Soundburst

In Memoriam
£400 retail not including R&D costs. . .OS and software development costs etc. It'll be sold at a loss as away of course.

So does the strange camera come with it? I can't see people bothering to buy it separately. If they bundle the camera and microphone then it'll go a good way to ensuring a very social console (being visible on a friends screen as you watch them play a game - but who would do this lol). If it's all seperate then It'll be awkward.

The camera has two basic HD cameras in it 1280X800 so I can't see it being that expensive to bundle in.
 

scanz

Distinguished Member
If Sony manage to include 4K Blu-ray playback then that will be a big selling point, even though 4k TV's aren't really around yet it'll help get 4K off the ground. Remember what happened to Blu-ray when the PS3 was launched.
Good point, no mention of this last night or from further reports yet. Do hope so and it would make sense in terms of progression from the PS3.
 

TheNameIsJambo

Distinguished Member
Rough retail prices:

7850 GPU - £150
CPU - £80

Although it's a combined CPU & GPU APU so probably looking at about £100, jaguar hasn't been released yet, the a10 5800k APU is the top of the line desktop version and costs £100.

500GB HDD - £40
PSU - £40
Motherboard - £60
8GB System ram (DDR3 so nowhere near as expensive as GDDR5) £40
Blu-ray drive - £30

Total Retail price around £400 ish

It works out about right, I'd expect retail price of the PS4 to be between £300 and £400, £300 being a 320GB version and £400 being a 1TB version.

The Jaguar is and isn't an APU. It's a 'building block' of an APU. From what I've seen online of the new Jaguar [successor to Bobcat], the Jaguar isn't like the AMD A10 - Which has a HD7750-ish, or something like that, attached to the CPU.

The Sony Jaguar will be a lot different to a desktop Jaguar. AMD are probably holding out to see how much graphical prowess they can cram in, without busting the wallets of consumers.

I don't know if the GPU will be an 'on-die' solution with the PS4, they could probably tack it on at the side, easily, but then again - They have voltage leak and heat to worry about doing that. The HD7850 and 7970M run kinda warm. Maybe having one monolithic vapour-chamber HSF will solve their problems, but if they have two separate chips then they can run the clocks and voltages higher, because the heat would be spread across the board and each HSF can focus on drawing away the heat by itself.

I can see both of the chips being stuck together [Like Intel i5/i7 and the HD3000, HD4000 etc.] Those Intel chips can still run cool, even when they're both at it and it would probably increase throughput as they can share caches.

Bah, we'd need to see under the hood - But from the conference yesterday, the damn thing isn't even finished yet! [As expected].

But there will be two separate types of chip in that thing, 8xbog standard x86 chips & 18xGCN CU clusters - It's just a question of seeing the die images.

EDIT:
You're pretty close with the PC specs. It is around £400-500 for a similar PS4 setup. They're going to make a lot less of a loss this time around.

Both MS and Sony made huge losses on this thing. This time they're going to try and recoup their losses.

I think MS moreso, as the leaked specs on that were a lot worse off than the PS4 - And the PS4 have Gaikai at their disposal!!
 

Tall_Paul

Distinguished Member
Good point, no mention of this last night or from further reports yet. Do hope so and it would make sense in terms of progression from the PS3.
Well it'll have a blu-ray player, and HDMI, and no doubt it'll have upscaling capabilites so I'd be surprised to not see 1080p blu-ray 4k upscaling at the very least.

4k requires HDMI version 1.4 (PS3 only has HDMI 1.3, which cannot be updated to 1.4 with just firmware as it needs a new chip) which they would be stupid not to have.

HDMI 1.4 supports 3840 x 2160 pixels at 24Hz, 25Hz and 30Hz and 4096 x 2160 pixels at 24Hz.
 

Tall_Paul

Distinguished Member
Interesting blog post by AMD here AMD and The Sony PS4. Allow Me To Elaborate. | AMD Unprocessed

What exactly is a semi-custom APU? Let me elaborate:

At the most basic level, an APU is a single chip that combines general-purpose x86 central processing unit (CPU) cores with a graphics processing unit (GPU) and a variety of system elements, including memory controllers, specialized video decoders, display outputs, etc. Our semi-custom solutions take the same treasure trove of graphics; compute and multi-media IP found in our APUs, and customize them for customers who have a very specific high-volume product that could benefit from AMD’s leading-edge technologies.

In the case of the PS4, we leveraged the building blocks of our 2013 product roadmap – the same technologies you find in the latest AMD APUs powering PCs, ultrathin notebooks and tablets – to create a solution that incorporates our upcoming, low-power AMD “Jaguar” CPU cores with next-generation AMD Radeon™ graphics delivering nearly 2 TFLOPS of compute performance! This unique APU architecture enables game developers to easily harness the power of parallel processing to fundamentally change the console gaming experience. Not only creating the opportunity for new possibilities in software design, but also faster and more fluid graphics.

This is going to be a very exciting year for gamers, especially for those with AMD hardware in their PCs and consoles, as we have even more game-changing (pun intended) announcements still to come.
 

Tall_Paul

Distinguished Member
Well it'll have a blu-ray player, and HDMI, and no doubt it'll have upscaling capabilites so I'd be surprised to not see 1080p blu-ray 4k upscaling at the very least.

4k requires HDMI version 1.4 (PS3 only has HDMI 1.3, which cannot be updated to 1.4 with just firmware as it needs a new chip) which they would be stupid not to have.

HDMI 1.4 supports 3840 x 2160 pixels at 24Hz, 25Hz and 30Hz and 4096 x 2160 pixels at 24Hz.
And there we go, 4K confirmed. But only for video playback, no games.

PS4 will output video in 4K, but not games | Joystiq

The PlayStation 4 supports 4K resolution output, Worldwide Studios boss Shuhei Yoshida just told us – but only for video that was recorded in the format. He clarified that games do not play in 4K.

On the upside, that means you don't have to go buy a 4K television yet. On the ... other upside, it prevented Sony from calling the thing "PlayStation 4K."
 

turk3y

Well-known Member
As a current ex-console gamer turned PC gamer, it's all about the games. :smashin:

Hardware aside (100% agree that it can only mean good things for the gaming industry as a whole and especially good for the PC gaming market), if there are games on the PS4 that look great and aren't on PC, then I'll be tempted :D

If Sony manage to include 4K Blu-ray playback then that will be a big selling point, even though 4k TV's aren't really around yet it'll help get 4K off the ground. Remember what happened to Blu-ray when the PS3 was launched.

With the specs of the PS4, all developers should be able to make games run at 1920x1080 and at 60fps, if they don't then I'd be a little disappointed. The 7850 gpu can already run BF3 which is a pretty demanding PC game at that res and frame rate, so I don't expect anything less for the PS4.

I think 4k on these consoles is going to be hard, I assume the GPU's dont have hardware h.265 decoding so that will need to be done by the cpu's which look quite weak or if they can do it expect the consoles fan to be screaming as they will be running flat out, normal bluray will not even make the unit sweat with hardware decoding.

Also from what I saw did the demo units at CES not need 4 parallel HDMI cables to get content onto the screen? if these consoles do not have some new uber hdmi port then how can they even push the content?

I am no expert in this field but it looks kind of like the 360 launching just before HDMI went mainstream that bad luck in the timing meant it just missed the boat. I am sure these tweaks can be added to later units as it would not affect the old units but will make people unhappy but Sony not using the PS4 as a 4K Trojan horse would be a surprise.

if the gpu can do the current games at 1080p60 you can be sure that once the bar is pushed further with the pc crowd that the consoles will feel the strain again and the devs will fall back on what they know, render low and upscale for output to try and keep up. i would love everything to be 1080p60 with AA tho so we can only hope.
 

Tazbot

Distinguished Member
TheNameIsJambo said:
My other PS4 thread was shut down in the PC Gaming section - And thus, I came here.. Only to receive grief so far.

I was hoping to break down the components and capabilities of the PS4 with like-minded beings - Hopefully come up with some good ideas of what Sony can bring to the table.

So much for trying to contribute to the community.

Bring your ideas, break down the components et al but all for what - Sony won't bring any of your ideas to the table, they'll bring their own - sorry mate but a waste of a thread IMO. All this can be discussed in other threads tbh.
 

addyb

Distinguished Member
Got to love the thread title. Asks for no flaming yet instantly has a dig at people interested in the PS4.
 
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Cha1ky

Distinguished Member
Is there really any need for this thread here? I couldn't give a **** what anyone from a so called "Master-Race" thinks about the PS4 and I'm a PC gamer!

Exactly. Wasnt allowed to belittle the PS4 in the PC section so wants to start here.
 

addyb

Distinguished Member
Ive had a look at the other thread that was locked in the pc section and think calling potential PS4 owners filthy peasants is OTT and can see another attempt to wind members up being made here. Im closing this thread as imo its a deliberate attempt to wind people up.

There are plenty of other threads in which to discuss the PS4.
 
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