ps3 uncompressed 5.1 - not too impressed - your opinions?

[abs]

is it me or does the sound through optical sound better than via hdmi for uncompressed 5.1 audio from my ps3 playing blu ray? i have only tried casino royale but found the sound output from the optical to be more punchier and dynamic than the pcm sound via hdmi. i am running it through my 7100 es.

has anyone experienced similar or is it this particular blu ray disc? i also noticed that on the opening credits when chris cornell is singing the theme his voice sounds very distant when listening via hdmi but the vocal from a backing singer is more emphasised. whereas thru optical chris cornell is clearly heard and the backing vocalist not as obvious?

i want to give the pcm audio a chance but so far i am not overly convinced. any comments appreciated.

 

[Chiribo]

Just like a previous thread said, don't you need a receiver which is capable of HDMI 1.3 which is what the PS3 is in order to get the full blown PCM 5.1 experience rather than using a receiver that is HDMI 1.2 which is then the weakest link and only gives you the sound that was possible under the 1.2 standards.

So basicaly you just need to try it all out with a receiver that does PCM 5.1 rather than 2.0 or whatever (not certain what kinda PCM is under the 1.2 standard)

Neh?

Edit: http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=504339 The thread that seems to have a fairly decent explanation about all the sound stuff in regards to the PS3

 

[Dave]

Just like a previous thread said, don't you need a receiver which is capable of HDMI 1.3 which is what the PS3 is in order to get the full blown PCM 5.1 experience rather than using a receiver that is HDMI 1.2 which is then the weakest link and only gives you the sound that was possible under the 1.2 standards.

So basicaly you just need to try it all out with a receiver that does PCM 5.1 rather than 2.0 or whatever (not certain what kinda PCM is under the 1.2 standard)

Neh?

To be blunt, no.

The PS3 does the decoding of the PCM and sends the signal as raw data. My amp is only HDMI 1.1 but is still capable of recieving PCM over HDMI.

IMO PCM sounds a lot better than DD or DTS. House of flying daggers was breath taking with the PCM soundtrack. The fight in the bamboo forest was mind blowing.

 

[Chiribo]

Yes but the if the receiver is 1.1 it can't handle all the data that's sent to it because the bandwith has been increased in 1.3 as I remember reading about that in a few places.

But meh anyway gotta save up some money and get me a new receiver and a couple of speakers to complete the suround sound setup

 

[Dave]

Yes but the if the receiver is 1.1 it can't handle all the data that's sent to it because the bandwith has been increased in 1.3 as I remember reading about that in a few places.

I haven't got a clue about the bandwidth limits regarding each HDMI version but just know that according to my amps manual it supports linear PCM up to 7.1 @ IIRC 96khz.

I think the issues regarding LPCM and HDMI 1.3 are more to do with the amp decoding the signal rather than recieving it already decoded from whatever source.

What I do know is the difference between uncompressed LPCM and DD are obvious to my ears. The bitrate goes up around 10 times higher with a PCM soundtrack according to the display on the PS3 and certainly there is a huge difference.

But meh anyway gotta save up some money and get me a new receiver and a couple of speakers to complete the suround sound setup

Onkyo 604 supports PCM and can be had for 300 quid now, fantastic amp at that price. It's being discontinued shortly though so if you're thinking about it soon bear that in mind.

It's unlikely you'll get anything else at that price that supports LPCM.

 

[zz101]

Onkyo 604 supports PCM and can be had for 300 quid now, fantastic amp at that price. It's being discontinued shortly though so if you're thinking about it soon bear that in mind.

It's unlikely you'll get anything else at that price that supports LPCM.

Do you mean this one?

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/product_en_4414853.html

Does it support 7.1 PCM over hdmi or only over the 7.1 multi channel inputs?

 

[Dave]

Do you mean this one?

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/products/product_en_4414853.html

Does it support 7.1 PCM over hdmi or only over the 7.1 multi channel inputs?

Yep, that's the one and it supports 7.1 through the HDMI input.

 

[zz101]

Yep, that's the one and it supports 7.1 through the HDMI input.

Are you sure as a thread on another forum found via google (dont think I can link to it??) says...?

"You'll get uncompressed PCM audio, but the Onkyo can only do a max of 5.1 for PCM, even though it's a 7.1 receiver. You could get 7.1 through a Dolby Digital/DTS source and have the receiver do matrix processing for the extra two channels."

I have 7 speakers at the moment - if I play a TruHD HD-DVD the rear speakers are silent and the side speakers become the rears which is less than ideal. If its the same with this amp then its not worth the upgrade for me.

 

[Gizmo 76]

Not really up on all this uncompressed stuff, anyone care to enlighten me...

I have a Denon 2803 Amp which has no HDMI input, just Component, I don't use these on the amp anyways. I have my PS3 connected through an Optical Connection...

If I select Bitstream I get the use Dolby Digital and DTS (only got Xmen3 at mo, so just DTS ), now if I select LPCM my amp plays through all the channels and displays 5 CHANNEL ST on the display!?!?

So what am I better off with, from a quick play DTS initial seemed better, but it could of just been louder.

I will have another go tomorrow, but would I be getting the full uncompressed soundtrack with the LPCM setting through an Optical Connection with an Amp of my age???

 

[Dave]

Not really up on all this uncompressed stuff, anyone care to enlighten me...

I have a Denon 2803 Amp which has no HDMI input, just Component, I don't use these on the amp anyways. I have my PS3 connected through an Optical Connection...

If I select Bitstream I get the use Dolby Digital and DTS (only got Xmen3 at mo, so just DTS ), now if I select LPCM my amp plays through all the channels and displays 5 CHANNEL ST on the display!?!?

So what am I better off with, from a quick play DTS initial seemed better, but it could of just been louder.

I will have another go tomorrow, but would I be getting the full uncompressed soundtrack with the LPCM setting through an Optical Connection with an Amp of my age???

Optical is limited by the amount of bandwidth the cable can physically carry.

It won't support the full uncompressed PCM soundtrack but if you set the PS3 to bitstream it maxes out the bandwidth available.

DTS and Dolby digital still sound great though, the difference isn't night and day at all. It's hard to describe the difference with LPCM. It just sounds more real if you know what I mean. Or erm, uncompressed.

 

[Dave]

Are you sure as a thread on another forum found via google (dont think I can link to it??) says...?

"You'll get uncompressed PCM audio, but the Onkyo can only do a max of 5.1 for PCM, even though it's a 7.1 receiver. You could get 7.1 through a Dolby Digital/DTS source and have the receiver do matrix processing for the extra two channels."

I have 7 speakers at the moment - if I play a TruHD HD-DVD the rear speakers are silent and the side speakers become the rears which is less than ideal. If its the same with this amp then its not worth the upgrade for me.

I'm not too sure about this to be honest, give us a min and I'll check the manual.

 

[JonStatt]

First of all, HDMI 1.1 will support full uncompressed 5.1 no problem. There is no bandwidth issue for this, so this is theoretically the best connection method.

For optical out, the sound will be downconverted, but to a bandwidth greater than normal DVD. This means that the sound will still be obviously audibly better than a normal DVD will.

From experience and tests with various family members and friends, you can hear a slight difference between uncompressed and the compressed optical if you close your eyes and listen for it. However, when you visually stimulated by the movie on the screen and you are not focussing on the sound, its really not noticeable anymore!

Perhaps for a music concert blu-ray or HD-DVD, the difference would matter more than an action movie with explosions etc.

 

[Gizmo 76]

Optical is limited by the amount of bandwidth the cable can physically carry.

It won't support the full uncompressed PCM soundtrack but if you set the PS3 to bitstream it maxes out the bandwidth available.

DTS and Dolby digital still sound great though, the difference isn't night and day at all. It's hard to describe the difference with LPCM. It just sounds more real if you know what I mean. Or erm, uncompressed.

Ok cheers Daerve,

So my connection method won't support full uncompressed, so am I better leaving it on Bitstream then out of the two choices, mine is only a 5.1 setup if that makes a difference???

 

[Dave]

Ok cheers Daerve,

So my connection method won't support full uncompressed, so am I better leaving it on Bitstream then out of the two choices, mine is only a 5.1 setup if that makes a difference???

Yep, bitstream whether it's 5.1 or 7.1.

 

[Dave]

Are you sure as a thread on another forum found via google (dont think I can link to it??) says...?

"You'll get uncompressed PCM audio, but the Onkyo can only do a max of 5.1 for PCM, even though it's a 7.1 receiver. You could get 7.1 through a Dolby Digital/DTS source and have the receiver do matrix processing for the extra two channels."

I have 7 speakers at the moment - if I play a TruHD HD-DVD the rear speakers are silent and the side speakers become the rears which is less than ideal. If its the same with this amp then its not worth the upgrade for me.

There's nothing in the manual that would suggest this is the case but I wouldn't like to say with 100% certainty that what you suggest isn't true.

It's probably a good idea to pose the question in the AV amps forum as the people in there know a hell of a lot more about amps than I do.

To the OP, my apologies for dragging your thread completely off topic.

IMO PCM sounds excellent and is noticeably better on House of Flying Daggers, Casino Royale, Click, Black Hawk Down and L4yer Cake. In fact every BR I've played that has a PCM soundtrack sounds great.

 

[abs]

no probs, anyone else got any experiences of optical v pcm?