PS3 to kick-start Blu-Ray? They haven't even started production yet!

RobDickinson

Well-known Member
Considering the Cell yield problems earlier, limited bluray drive supplies, late ratification of the HDMI1.3 chip (is it needed..?)

yes they can be making a lot of components, even the mainboards which will have been maped ages ago, and just assemble the units, no idea if they can make 2-4 million , they'v sold 100million ps2's so I assume they'll have production capacity if they can make the drives & cells.
 

Oakleyspatz

Well-known Member
The point I was trying to make with this thread, is that with such a short time from initial production to release date, there is very little time to see what (if any) bugs the PS3 may have ( Samsung Blu-Ray players anyone?) and if there are any, they will have next to no time to fix them before release.
Intial prototypes and production line units can have very different issues that do not come to light until those production units are made and tested.
Only time will tell I suppose, but, Blu-Ray and in particular the PS3 has the potential to royally balls the format right up yet again.
With the problems Blu-Ray are having what with codecs, dual layer discs, audio formats etc., should Sony really be leaving it so late for production and subsequent launch of the PS3 to an already fragile and confidence knocked consumer base?
 

Oakleyspatz

Well-known Member
RobDickinson said:
What makes you think that sony havnt had a preproduction PS3 up and running for months totaly tested & bug free?

Production (i.e. mass production manufacturing) isnt where you find the bugs.
Then if they have perfected Blu-Ray technology in their PS3, why on earth can't they do it with their stand alone Blu-Ray players?????
Sony's own stand alone Blu-Ray player has had more false starts than I've had hot dinners, but you are saying that within their PS3, they have all of Blu-Ray's problems licked?
I don't think so!
 

RobDickinson

Well-known Member
Who knows, I'd doubt development was still ongoing, & software fixes can be made leter.

Physicaly the units will have been finished a while ago, no idea what chip there using for the video out but I'd asume its not the same one as in the samsung & tosh players.
 

Oakleyspatz

Well-known Member
RobDickinson said:
Production (i.e. mass production manufacturing) isnt where you find the bugs.
This also implies that for instance the Toshiba HD-DVD players' and the Samsung Blu-Ray players' bugs that have come to light since production commenced, were all known before production when the pre-production models were made/tested?
This begs the question, if they knew of so many bugs, why on earth commence production knowing these bugs would severely damage the confidence in these new formats? I know Samsung were obviously keen to be the first to market with a player, but if all these bugs lead to the demise of the format, then what was the point?
I believe many hardware bugs only come to light once full production has commenced and are not found in pre-production units.
But I could be wrong!
 

RobDickinson

Well-known Member
Your probably not wrong, eevrything is built to a budget & timeline.

I dont beleive the tosh has any real hardware problems & they always expected to release firmware updates, i.e. improve the video decoding, do HD audio etc, features & spec changes that can be made , in software, later, yet still release a working quality product.

The samsung player fiasco was just that, they were trying to one up the HD-0DVD players by offering 1080p, how the issues got past QC I've no idea, but as its taking them months to fix a simple flag error in software I belive its a more serious problem with the upscaler.

Launching a console with major problems is not something anyone can contemplate, the PS2's dvd rom isues & 360's heat issues are relativly minor yet caused a lot of headlines.
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
Interestingly the dodgy bit on the Samsung BD player was the 'late' addition. Unfortunately for Sony, several key components are 'late' like HDMI 1.3, BR drives and the cell processor. This is quite a gamble by them to get it into my house for nov. There is not much slack here at all.
 

Oakleyspatz

Well-known Member
Nic Rhodes said:
Interestingly the dodgy bit on the Samsung BD player was the 'late' addition. Unfortunately for Sony, several key components are 'late' like HDMI 1.3, BR drives and the cell processor. This is quite a gamble by them to get it into my house for nov. There is not much slack here at all.
Exactly my point Nic !!:smashin:
 

ahin4114

Novice Member
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons why the Sony BR deck has had it's release date postponed is becuase they need many of the components which are in short supply to hit their targets on the PS3.

As for the cell yields, I think if you read the press releases more closely, they stated that the chips that were being produced were of sufficient quality to be used in the PS3, it's higher quality chips that are destined for IBM's server platform that was producing poor numbers.
 
ahin4114 said:
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the reasons why the Sony BR deck has had it's release date postponed is becuase they need many of the components which are in short supply to hit their targets on the PS3.

As for the cell yields, I think if you read the press releases more closely, they stated that the chips that were being produced were of sufficient quality to be used in the PS3, it's higher quality chips that are destined for IBM's server platform that was producing poor numbers.
Standard cell chip has 8 SPU's PS3 has 7 SPU's, on purpose, to increase yields. It's not a last minute change, it's always been the plan. The low yields (10-20%) reports are for 8 SPU cell chips. Unfortunatly, The Inquirer publish any old tripe, most of it "man down the pub" talk.
 

StooMonster

Well-known Member
mgillespie said:
Standard cell chip has 8 SPU's PS3 has 7 SPU's, on purpose, to increase yields. It's not a last minute change, it's always been the plan.
LOL, it's not "on purpose". It's simply that PS3 can operate with 1-of-8 SPUs not working; it was announced after the low yields numbers of Cell. But your point about yields sounds about right, would be very bad if 7 SPU yields were that low.

Similar to say how graphics card chipsets are graded: where all working pipes gets to be top card (low yields), where some broken pipes gets to be mid-range (mid yield), and lots not working to be bottom of range (high yield) -- all the same chip but with different levels of manufacturing failure.

As to Sony being downgraded from Hold to Underperform (or 3 to 2 if you like), that's got to hurt although it doesn't change Consensus much which remains at Outperform.

StooMonster
 

boksbox

Active Member
StooMonster said:
LOL, it's not "on purpose". It's simply that PS3 can operate with 1-of-8 SPUs not working; it was announced after the low yields numbers of Cell. But your point about yields sounds about right, would be very bad if 7 SPU yields were that low.

Similar to say how graphics card chipsets are graded: where all working pipes gets to be top card (low yields), where some broken pipes gets to be mid-range (mid yield), and lots not working to be bottom of range (high yield) -- all the same chip but with different levels of manufacturing failure.

As to Sony being downgraded from Hold to Underperform (or 3 to 2 if you like), that's got to hurt although it doesn't change Consensus much which remains at Outperform.

StooMonster
Sony seem to be under the cosh at the minute, maybe their sales pitch for the PS3 will be 'Batteries Not Included, Honest'
 

sif

Standard Member
Stoomonster, PS3 Cell's have only ever had 7 of the 8 SPE's working. Check out E3 2005 Sony press conference slides, from when the console was announced. Another SPE is taken by the OS btw.
 

RunDMC

Active Member
Stoo, as sif says, specs from E3 2005...

PLAYSTATION®3 Specifications Product name PLAYSTATION®3 CPU Cell Processor PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz 1 VMX vector unit per core 512KB L2 cache 7 x SPE @3.2GHz 7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs 7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE * 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy total floating point performance : 218 GFLOPS
 

StooMonster

Well-known Member
RunDMC said:
1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy total floating point performance : 218 GFLOPS
Listing 1 of 8 for redundancy implies they were expecting all 8 to function.

But since yeilds have been so low of chips with 8 working SPE they can't use 1 of 8 for redundancy now can they?

They just have to 7 and that's it, no more SPE reserved for redundancy.

StooMonster
 

RunDMC

Active Member
StooMonster said:
Listing 1 of 8 for redundancy implies they were expecting all 8 to function.

But since yeilds have been so low of chips with 8 working SPE they can't use 1 of 8 for redundancy now can they?

They just have to 7 and that's it, no more SPE reserved for redundancy.

StooMonster
Hmmm... Yes, good point, well made. :)
 

StooMonster

Well-known Member
Not got the PS3 menu system though. Looks a bit 'mock up' to me.

StooMonster
 

Mickey Mouse

Standard Member
No production runs as yet.

I am in the process of making graphics for the point of sale units at the moment and all I've had to work with is a wooden mock-up!! :eek:

Have been assured by contacts at Sony UK they have production 'in hand' and will make an announcement when appropriate to do so!

Probably won't help much but more information will be provided as I get it.

Mickey Mouse
 

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