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PS3 to 3D TV (3d picture) and Non-3D Receiver (lossless audio)?

Apnomis

Established Member
I've got 3d tv on the way and intend to watch 3d movies via my PS3. Unfortunately the more I read up on it the more I realise hdmi is not straight forward or user friendly and there is a lot of conflicting advice out there...

Currently all my equipment is connected to my Yamaha Rx-v3800 receiver and output to my tv. This allows me to get lossless audio from my PS3. Unfortunately it would appear that a 3d signal would not be passed through via the 3800 which means the PS3 would need connecting directly to the TV. If I did this though I would lose the lossless audio which I don't want to do.

My first instinct was to split the hdmi and send one to the receiver for the audio and the other to the TV for the 3d. But is this possible? I've read that splitters will downgrade to the lowest denominator so as the tv doesn't support 7.1 it won't give it to the receiver that can and as the receiver won't support 3d it won't give it to the tv. Making a splitter completely pointless!

Is this true? Is there a way around this? Splitting the sound from the picture seems like a pretty basic requirement, or has hdmi been created in such a way as to shaft you into upgrading everything in order to enjoy all the features at once?

Surely I can't be the first person to want lossless audio to their legacy receiver at the same time as wanting 3d on their new TV? Surely there's a cheap way to do this?
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
'Surely there's a cheap way to do this?' - nope, it gets expensive for small scale manufacture when you have Dolby and other 'licenced' technologies involved.

A Dual HDMI Out BD player or an HDMI to multi-channel analogue converter are two viable options (the latter requires your AVR to have multi-channel analogue Inputs).

Media Factory - Octava HDMX71-UK, 4x2 HDMI Switch with 7.1 analogue audio.

Joe
 

Apnomis

Established Member
Jeez - forget that I'd rather buy a new Receiver! The Yamaha RX-V675 (which I'm guessing will give a similar sound to my RX-V3800) is only £299 to buy!!!
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
A 3D capable AVR is certainly a good option - though the RX-V3800 is a nice sounding amp, you may need to set your sights higher than the model you indicate, ideally you'll want to audition any potential candidates.

Joe
 

Apnomis

Established Member
I was worried about that - but having just spent a small fortune on a TV I've not really got the budget to splash out. I love the sound of the RX-V3800, which is why my first thought was to go back to Yamaha. Another option was the Sony 1040, but it's hard to audition clearance models. I suppose I could stretch to the clearance RX-V775 - but is the difference to the 675 really going to be that noticable for the money?
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
I'd go have a good listen or better still organise a home demo - you may find in the long run it is better to live with DD/DTS via Optical in the short term (for 3D viewing) and then upgrade to a suitable 3D enabled AVR as and when funds allow.

I cant imagine the majority of your BD viewing will be in 3D so you can still have HD audio from your 2D collection!

Joe
 

Apnomis

Established Member
An excellent point - we only currently have 8 3D Blu-rays, so I'll just have to have a fiddle with the cables when I need to watch a 3D film. Not ideal, but would save me rushing into buying a new receiver. Having looked more closely at the Yamaha range it seems they now have a separate 'Adventage' range, so from your comments I assume that although it is prefixed with 'RX-V' the RX-V3800 is more closely related to the currently RX-A range...

I am still living in hope that I can get it to work somehow. I have read at least one unconfirmed report saying that the PS3 only does an EDID check once, so once it finds a 3DTV from a direct HDMI connection it will continue to assume it is connected to one even if you subsequently unplug it and plug it in to something else. I've also heard people who claim that as the PS3 is only HDMI 1.3a it 'cheats' when it comes to 3D and sends a side-by-side picture signal similar to the likes of Sky and Virgin Media which will work through the 1.3a ports on the Receiver.

I guess I will find out tomorrow when it is delivered...
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Its not the PS3 that's the problem :)

HDMI carries audio 'within' the video signal - when the video is 3D the HD audio is not in the same place as when its DD/DTS and the 'pre 3D' chip in your AVR doesn't have the ability to 'find' the HD audio.

HDMI requires a video signal to sync to the signal - the Players with Dual HDMI Out put a 'dummy' 2D 'blank' video signal on the second HDMI Out (along with the HD audio) - so now your non-3D AVR can sync to, find and decode the HD audio stream.

Yes to your findings on Yamaha's current range.

Joe
 

Apnomis

Established Member
That's my thinking too, but I'll try it none the less, some people seem convinced they can get it to work. While I've been reading up on it I've also seen mention that the PS3 cannot transmit HD audio and a 3D signal, it's one or the other so when playing a 3D blu-ray you don't get HD sound anyway, but again I don't know how true this is without experimenting myself.

I might just keep an eye out for a cheap dual output Blu-ray player instead and bypass the PS3 completely. I think games will still work in 3D on my current set up because that uses a different type of transmission to Blu-ray, so that would be problem solved. Plus I've been meaning to get a multi-region capable one for a while since my old multi-region DVD player died...
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
'some people seem convinced they can get it to work' - I'd ignore them :)

'I've also seen mention that the PS3_ cannot transmit HD audio and a 3D signal' - Sony added support for DTS HD whilst playing back a 3D movie back in 2011.

Octava HDMXA71 - here's one of our HDMI to multi-channel units keeping some very expensive company in a sound studio at EA!

Timeline Photos - The Media Factory | Facebook

Joe
 

Apnomis

Established Member
Right having had a play around I can confirm that once you calibrate your PS3 for 3D by plugging it directly into the TV you are then able to plug it into the RX-V3800 and it WILL pass through the 3D blu-ray output of the PS3 to the TV without issue!!

What it doesn't do however, as you pointed out, is find the HD soundtrack that is encoded into the 3D picture - you just get the PCM logo flashing on and off with no sound. However if you switch your sound settings to Optical it will obviously work over the optical cable.

The BIG advantage this setup gives is the ability to always have the HDMI plugged into the Receiver and not have to mess around unplugging it from the Receiver and into the TV - watching a 3D film is now simply just a matter of switching from HDMI to Optical in the PS3 Sound Setup menu.

It still means I don't get HD sound for 3D films but has a compromise I'm pretty happy with it. I don't know how or why the PS3 is able to bend the rules of 3D over HDMI 1.3a but it does!
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
You need our HDMI Analogue audio converter if you want 3D + HD Audio - I have an RX-V3800 in our test rack, works nicely with our converter :)

Joe
 

ChrisV

Novice Member
You need our HDMI Analogue audio converter if you want 3D + HD Audio - I have an RX-V3800 in our test rack, works nicely with our converter :)

Joe

Hi Joe

I am in the same situation as Apnomis - looking for a relatively inexpensive way to get lossless audio using the PS3 and my non-3d yamaha amp.

I currently use the optical out from the PS3, however when viewing 3d movies, I have to adjust the delay settings on the receiver to account for picture lag.

I was wondering if you have any comments on the following:

CLUX-3D12S1A - 1 x 2 HDMI Splitter with 3D Audio to Amplifier
The 3D HDMI 1in 2out Splitter with audio from Cypress Technology is fully compliant with HDMI. It allows the output from any HDMI equipped device, such as a 3D DVD or Blu-ray Player, to be split and connect up to two HDMI displays, such as a HDTV or a HD projector in the same room. The third HDMI output is an audio with blue screen output, which means it can be connected to an AV Receiver that does not support 3D signal.

This Cypress device has a number of applications, such as promotional use in showrooms for home entertainment or just general advertisement, educational or business presentations, as well as your own home entertainment set up.

Features

  • HDMI, HDCP1.1 and DVI 1.0 compliant Receiver
  • Deep Color video up to 12-bit, [email protected]/60 Hz
  • One HDMI source to connect up to two HDMI displays simultaneously
  • One audio-only HDMI output connected to AVR
  • Splits a HDMI source to two outputs without signal loss
  • Supports DVI source and DVI display by using HDMI to/from DVI adaptor cable
  • Supports LPCM 7.1CH, Dolby Digital and Dolby Digital Plus Audio transmission (32–192 kHz Fs sample rate)
  • Supports a wide range of PC and HDTV resolutions from VGA to WUXGA and 480i to 1080p
  • HDMI cable distance test with 1080p/8-bit or 12-bit resolution,
  • HDMI Input/Output distance can run up to 15 meters
  • Supports EDID functionality.
see

3D HDMI 1in 2out Splitter
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
On paper it looks good - it's not listed on the CYP Europe website, pretty sure it was a while back.

If you can test it out knowing you can return it should it not deliver in your system it's worth trying out!

Joe
 

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