PS3 and meridian 568 DSP for hi-res sound ?

lamboption

Standard Member
I have a PS3 and a 1080p LG plasma and a meridian 568.2 DSP and a 7 channel 100w amp ( using 5 channels) with 5.1 speakers.
So , great I have hi-res video but id like True HD Master Audio too.I guess Im out of luck using my meridian in any way for this purpose since it has no HDMI connections and is hecnce not HDCP compliant ( though it has 24/96 dacs) ?
So am i correct in saying I need to buy a HDMI v1.3 compliant processor and connect this to my PS3 and then to my amplifier to get full re sound ?

thanks for the help :)
 

kingfats

Distinguished Member
I have a PS3 and a 1080p LG plasma and a meridian 568.2 DSP and a 7 channel 100w amp ( using 5 channels) with 5.1 speakers.
So , great I have hi-res video but id like True HD Master Audio too.I guess Im out of luck using my meridian in any way for this purpose since it has no HDMI connections and is hecnce not HDCP compliant ( though it has 24/96 dacs) ?
So am i correct in saying I need to buy a HDMI v1.3 compliant processor and connect this to my PS3 and then to my amplifier to get full re sound ?

thanks for the help :)
Welcome to the forum. :smashin:
So you want HDMI out of the PS3 to a converter/processor and then analogues to your meridian.....is that right?
All the best.
 

Phil43

Active Member
I have a PS3 and a 1080p LG plasma and a meridian 568.2 DSP and a 7 channel 100w amp ( using 5 channels) with 5.1 speakers.
So , great I have hi-res video but id like True HD Master Audio too.I guess Im out of luck using my meridian in any way for this purpose since it has no HDMI connections and is hecnce not HDCP compliant ( though it has 24/96 dacs) ?
So am i correct in saying I need to buy a HDMI v1.3 compliant processor and connect this to my PS3 and then to my amplifier to get full re sound ?

thanks for the help :)
There is a new 621 (six to one) HDMI to PCM box (approx £1500) soon to be realeased that you can use into the MHR link of your 568.2, Google meridianunplugged
 

Nic Rhodes

Well-known Member
Excellent box by all accounts, and I know where to get a good deal on it ;)
 

lamboption

Standard Member
thnks for that guys , I want a digital solution to my meridian and then analogue from there , so the HD 621 is i guess what Im looking at , with the 513 patch.
I guess my concern is the meridians are 6 yrs old , and surely DACs are much cheaper these days....so is it worth £1.5k or just better to get an Integra DTC-9.8 THX or better (when one is released) and not risk the oldish meridians packing in.this would also leave me with the option of using the meridians in another location as a simple cd/dvd-a source.
Meridian of course claim that separating the video and audio in the HD 621 is a necessary thing , and that it de-jitters but Im not capable of assessing this claim
 

phulme

Active Member
Well I have got my HD621 and all I can say is that it is definately worth the money.:clap:

The HD sound formats are a big step up in quality. The panning from rears to front/steering is seemless.

I used to own the 568.2mm and it has a very similar sound to the G68 I use.

I am confindent that the combination of 568.2 + hd 621 will out perform nearly all the solutions available from other manufacturers.

On merdianunplugged.com one person is using cheap vga to 3 phonos to connect to the 568.2

HD 621 at last - The Hitchhikers Guide To Meridian

Regards Phil
 

Baggy

Well-known Member

z5461313

Well-known Member
Also - does it rely on the bluray player to do the decoding of the HD sound?

Where is the sound decoding performed. Is the Meridian box just a distributor?
 

Uridium

Well-known Member
Also - does it rely on the bluray player to do the decoding of the HD sound?

Where is the sound decoding performed. Is the Meridian box just a distributor?
The PS3 is only able to send HD audio decoded as LPCM. it is unable to send the bitstreamed TrueHD or DTS-MA audio.
 

z5461313

Well-known Member
Isn't that defeating the purpose of the Meridian?

It being a superior surround sound decoding unit compared to a bluray player?

Not sure I get it, if the Meridian is just delegated to a channelling job as anything could do that?
 

Uridium

Well-known Member
Isn't that defeating the purpose of the Meridian?

It being a superior surround sound decoding unit compared to a bluray player?

Not sure I get it, if the Meridian is just delegated to a channelling job as anything could do that?
Quite possibly yes but I'm afraid this is just a hardware limitation of the PS3. it lacks the physical hardware within to bitstream HD audio codecs.

If you wanted to bitstream the HD audio codecs for decoding by the Meridian you would need to use a different Blu-Ray player that can bitstream. (Most current models do)

Admittedly my Onkyo Receiver is much lower class than the meridian but the difference between my PS3 decoding and sending LPCM to the Onkyo and my Sony S350 bitstreaming to my Onkyo for decoding is marginal to say the least.
 
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Baggy

Well-known Member
It's basically a 6 input HDMI switchbox which extracts the HDMI audio for the digital inputs on a Meridian processor 568.2mm and up.

Your player would need to decode the audio to LPCM as the PS3 does.
 

Avi

Distinguished Member
Isn't that defeating the purpose of the Meridian?

It being a superior surround sound decoding unit compared to a bluray player?

Not sure I get it, if the Meridian is just delegated to a channelling job as anything could do that?
Does Meridan provide a solution to decoding HD audio codecs ?

Also out of interest how would the Meridian be superior at decoding HD audio codecs than any other reference decoder?

AVI
 

Ian_S

Distinguished Member
I don't believe they do, and in theory it wouldn't.

However, Meridians philosophy on what to do with digital signals is quite different from most, and one would hope that once the audio came out of their 'switchbox', it would be rather free from stuff like jitter, and that it's ultimate transition to analogue before hitting a speaker cone would be done rather better than most.

You could liken it to the Classe approach in some respects, if it's lossless audio, and the player delivers that accurately (not through bad decoding, but through rubbish mixing later) then a good HDMI input solution should get you perfect audio.

I would expect though at some stage they'd want a Meridian transport that integrates properly into their overall system and that they'd provide an upgrade to their DSP's to support the HD codecs. They also seem limited to six channels and possibly 96KHz, which given that 192KHz titles are appearing would seem to leave a lot of scope for improvement on their part.
 

z5461313

Well-known Member
This is the thing

I have a Meridian 568.2, and it is the complete surround sound processor as it has 5 chips in to process and decode

I compared it to many all in 1 solutions, and it is just better in its decoding, compared to them

But it doesn't decode HD Audio which can be considered a limitation. It can be sent the bitstream, and it decodes it as Cinema and it is still brilliant with its detail and surround sound processing

So no it doesn't decode HD audio

It doesn't seem to make sense to let a bluray player do the decoding, as you could probably buy a £300 Yamaha to do the channelling in this case

I'm not getting the HD621 purpose?
 
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Avi

Distinguished Member
This is the thing

I have a Meridian 568.2, and it is the complete surround sound processor as it has 5 chips in to process and decode

I compared it to many all in 1 solutions, and it is just better in its decoding, compared to them

But it doesn't decode HD Audio which can be considered a limitation. It can be sent the bitstream, and it decodes it as Cinema and it is still brilliant with its detail and surround sound processing

So no it doesn't decode HD audio

It doesn't seem to make sense to let a bluray player do the decoding, as you could probably buy a £300 Yamaha to do the channelling in this case

I'm not getting the HD621 purpose?
I think as Ian_s tried to explain that player based decoding isn't by definition worse or better than processor based decoding. Issues may arise from other aspects such as how accurately the sink i.e. AVR, Pro pro, surround processor etc re generates the audio lock when using the HDMI interface. Not all HDMI sinks regenerate the audio clock in the same way and some appear to have higher levels of jitter. The HD621 appears to be a solution to accurate HDMI audio clock regeneration i.e. lower jitter and then it uses a proprietary interface to the Meridian box.

AVI
 

z5461313

Well-known Member
Yes i understand now thanks

Still, it seems like the 5 decoding chips on the Meridian are not going to do anything with the HD621 attached

I guess it is the whole subject of bluray player decoding versus surround sound processor decoding

I remember before I had the Meridian, and was using Yamahas, the Yamahas did not have the steering ability or even detail ability that my Meridian has now

Its hard to believe a blu player will decode as well as a £2000 Meridian decoder irregardless of jitter levels
 

Avi

Distinguished Member
Its hard to believe a blu player will decode as well as a £2000 Meridian decoder irregardless of jitter levels
Why ? As I understand it the result of the HD codec "decode" must be bit perfect against a reference standard set by Dolby, DTS etc. Not sure how a decoder can be more accurate than achieving reference in terms of the decoded data. Also some title use lossess high def LPCM soundtracks that don't require decoding.

AVI
 

Ian_S

Distinguished Member
That's the point of lossless audio though. It removes any difference in the decoding to PCM. All certified decoders will deliver bit for bit identical output with the same input.

Now, decoding isn't all of the story. A DSP still has to apply level adjustments, speaker distance delays, speaker crossover settings and optionally equalisation, whilst still maintaining the integrity of the source. I would imagine that the Meridian will still do very well on those fronts. I believe the Meridians also have sophisticated upsampling algorithms to improve and correct even mastering errors.

Lossless audio largely means that at the lower end of the scale, quality has taken a big leap, but it doesn't mean that a cheap player is as good as a high end DSP. There's more to it than just turning DD and DTS back to PCM again. However, it does mean the gap between high end and mainstream is smaller, and that you still need the high end partnering equipment to realise the gains these things can make.
 

z5461313

Well-known Member
Great thanks

I didn't realise the lossless audio requires less work on the decoding side

Something to think about now

This means then that an Onyko all in one receiver that can decode the HD formats, could sound better than a Meridian 568.2 now?
 
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NonPayingMember

Previously Liam @ Prog AV
Everything needs work on the decoding side, or at least on the side from the point the signal comes off the player before it hits the speakers. The HD621 is effectively an audio processor rather than a switch box that "extracts" the audio. The big technologies the box has are FIFO de-jitter which reclocks the signal as it comes in to make a perfect jitter-free link to your 568 for output to the power amp, audio delay to bring the audio/vide sync back into line (from memory your 568 only handles up to 30ms), and the fantastic apodising filters employed during the upsampling step to output your audio at 96kHz per channel. The apodising algorithms so far have only come up in the DSP8000 and DSP7200 speakers, and with a firmware upgrade a few months back the DSP5200 speakers. It really does provide a much better seperation of sound and clearer sound stage. So the HD621 takes over quite a bit of your processing, and then uses your 568.2 to apply levels, distances, THX processes and Dolby/DTS for SD audio. The new Meridian setup software brings it all into line for you and means you effectively get yourself the equivalent of a modern day HD audio processor.

If you guys thought the Arcam AVR600/AV888 was the only product doing good things with HDMI audio you should probably hear a Meridian combo. Unfortunately you are looking at £5k for G61R + HD621 for their basic solution which only runs PCM audio inputs for HD, but still you've gotta hear it...
 

NonPayingMember

Previously Liam @ Prog AV
P.S. no the onkyo will never sound better than the Meridian. It doesn't do any kind of upsampling or de-jiterring of the signal, doesn't have as good DACs either, and will be destroyed by the Meridian on analogue audio performance. It does have a very good Audyssey implementation though, and HQV video processing if you will use it.
 

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