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PS2: underawed

Discussion in 'Playstation Forums' started by nunew33, Jan 4, 2004.

  1. nunew33

    nunew33
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    Got a PS2 for xmas from wife(so cant return it ithout offending).

    Got a free game with it, big deal!.

    Cant believe that I have to spend a further£20-£30 on a memory card to do anything meaningful with that game, then another £20 to play with two people, then spend another £40 every time I want a new game!!!!

    I also have to fork out on optical leads and componant leads adding another £20.


    I inherited some PS1 games and cant believe that in addition to the above I have to buy PS1 memory cards as well.


    Is it the same for all consoles?
     
  2. Miyazaki

    Miyazaki
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    Xbox and gamecube have four controller ports.

    Um...


    Xbox you don't need memory cards as it has a hard drive. Gamecube you need memory cards.

    I'd recommend getting an advanced scart lead with xbox and also an optical lead.

    Gamecube doesn't have DD, so just an rgb jobby for that.

    IMO you got the worst console mate.
     
  3. sjallen

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    You're underawed with it, yet you don't mention what game you've played on it and what you think of it. Yes, consoles leech money like a woman, but the PS2 is a good console. Try picking up copies of GTA3/VC, Metal Gear Solid 2, ICO, Pro Evo Soccer, Final Fantasy X, Devil May Cry.... each of those can be picked up for under £20, apart from the latest version of Pro Evo. Which, if you are a football fan, is a must - we can't have people encouraging EA by playing FIFA after all...
     
  4. calibos

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    I assume you have a PC m8? If your PC is anything under 3-4 years old and it had a half decent graphics card even for its time then its not surprising you are underawed.

    I was the same when I got my PS2 and the same with my X-box and Gamecube (excluding Rogue Leader on GC/absolute eye candy) Whereas most people were going from a PS1 to a PS2 and were rightly awed I had seen the transition to PS2 quality graphics with my PC in the intervening years between PS1 and PS2. When I got the PS2 I was like, "sure its only PC graphics and at lower resolution to boot"
     
  5. nunew33

    nunew33
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    PCs old (athlon 1.1 /Radeon AIW 32M). But I new what I was getting with graphics. Game I got was F1 2003, im an F1 nut so pretty happy (even though graphics aren't as good as Geoff hammond F1 2002 for PC).

    Had I known hopw few titles were DD/DTS and Prog scan and that I would need to fork out £50 just to play against a mate, I would have dropped hints for an Xbox.

    Im not underawed with it as a console.

    Its just the hidden costs of getting started which as someones pointed out, the PS2 seems the worst.
     
  6. Sinzer

    Sinzer
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    Hidden costs are all bad, thats how they make their money on overpriced gamepads and connectors.
     
  7. Greg Hook

    Greg Hook
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    PS2 memory cards are £14.99, not £20-£30. Plus all the latest games can be found for no more than £30 on the net. Extra controllers are pretty cheap aswell.

    I can understand why you would be disappointed with your initial package as I was when mine first arrived with the amazing game of International Cue Club which had me riveted to the PS2 for minutes, but if you persevere there are some excellent games for the PS2 such as GT3 and some of the older ones you can get very cheap on the net. Plus if you have broadband you can get the network adaptor and play games over the net (admittedly not as good/popular as Xbox live).

    Probably if you had a choice the Xbox would be the better option but as you have a PS2 now I would stick with it.

    I have a PC and I got the PS2 for the sheer simplicity and ease of loading and playing the games. I realise the graphics are not going to be as good but I am still very pleased with it.

    You are right though about the hidden costs, it would be nice if you could buy the console and it was complete with everything you needed to be able to play properly.

    Greg
     
  8. JUS

    JUS
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    I would take it back and get a Xbox. The wife only lives to make your life happy so I'm sure she won't mind :D

    All you'll need to buy extra for the Xbox is a wireless controller :)
     
  9. Willy

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    That's the way it is unfortunately, but you don't need to spend as much as you say.

    Memory cards are £17.99 on Play.com. Not sure about controllers, probably similar.

    Buy your games online at Play.com or Amazon, or pick up some 2nd hand titles from your local indie retailer for about £20-25 each. You're only going to be paying £40 per game if you shop on the high street.

    It still sucks though. Sony's decision to include 2 controller ports is one of my pet hates, and companies including non-RGB scarts always winds me up too.
     
  10. Willy

    Willy
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    And a decent video cable. And a DVD remote if he wants to watch DVD's through it.

    None of the console manufacturers are saints with regards to this sort of thing!
     
  11. JUS

    JUS
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    Willy,

    I agree there. Although some rip you off more than others. Xbox has broadband, 4 controller ports and a hefty hard drive, which saves quite a few quid over buying a PS2. I had a PS1 and it really got to me having to buy memory cards all the time, or having 3rd party ones wipe themselves clean...and what a flaff on using a multitap.

    Who uses their PS2 or Xbox to watch movies? I'd rather buy a cheap dvd player than buy a remote.

    I'm not saying the PS2 is rubbish. The Xbox is just better value :)
     
  12. NeilMcRae

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    Xenon [XboxNext] won't have a hard drive in it either folks!
     
  13. Sinzer

    Sinzer
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    I used to before I got a home cinema, I know quite a few people who still do. In fact I would say quite a lot of people do, esp for bedroom players.
     
  14. Miyazaki

    Miyazaki
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    Unless you work for microsoft there is no possible way you can know that.
     
  15. Messiah

    Messiah
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    "Talk Xbox's source (xbox-evolved.com) recently received an email from Microsoft PR, stating that the Xbox 2 will NOT come with a hard drive, although there will be a package which will contain one. This is said to be due to cutting the manufacturing cost of the Xbox 2 console.

    They have also been informed the Xbox 2 will not play the Xbox 1 games, this is due to NVIDIA causing problems with Microsoft, as we know Microsoft plans to go with ATI for Xbox 2, but without NVIDIA making some sort of emulator, the Xbox 2 will not play the games from the Xbox.

    Whether this is true is for you to have a think about, but I always like to consider such reports flawed until we have firm facts from an official 'named' source."

    Sources: TalkXbox & xboxrules
     
  16. nunew33

    nunew33
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    I thought the future of console gaming will be media less games, ie you download them or pay per play online. If this is the case there will need to be some form of local storage. Otherwise there will be a big assumption that lots of people will be on broadband and be happy about permenent connection, taken up by constant streaming of game data. If broadband suppliers ever move towards a model where you pay for volume of data rather than bitrate then this will become more of an issue.

    Or maybe you will pay £20 for a console and £100 for a 1gigabyte memory card!!!

    I would have also thought that local memory media (wether solid state or hard drive) would be a lot cheaper by the time next gen machines are ready and the cost of manufacturing will be in the graphics and cpu.


    But what do I know, Im a recently deflowered console virgin!
     
  17. SeeNoWeevil

    SeeNoWeevil
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    There is no way the Xbox 2 will not contain a hard drive and ditching backwards compatibility is a very bad idea.

    Here is what IGN 'know' about the xbox2

    click
     
  18. JUS

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    That surprised me. I couldn't put up with the noise from the thing.


    The future...

    I'm not going to take sides until I get a bit more info. Hell, I could go for a PS3 next time who knows.

    Interesting comment about backward compatibility. Not really interested in it myself...especially after trying to go back and play gran turismo on a PS1...uurrggghh.

    Ignoring the chip spec for now...Ditching hard drive, 5.1, four controller ports and developer support would be bad in my book.
     
  19. Sinzer

    Sinzer
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    They have no choice, I am sure the X-Box 2 will come with a non-HD version, they are making a huge loss on the X-Box, compounded even further with their price war. Besides HD does not equal much in the console world, Gamecube loading times are far faster than any X-Box or PC game and there is not a HD in sight!

    As for compatibility, let me put it this way. You are a graphics chip manufacturer, you get approached by the largest computing company in the world. You make a chip for them, you and the computing company start argueing over prices. Your new partner decides to go with your main competitor who have also just released faster chips than you in your home PC market.

    Now would you be happy in making sure that your graphics APIs were compatible with your competitors?

    They have already ditched developer support, now in the case that the X-Box 2 is significantly more powerful and is equally as hackable, you may find some programmer buffs who decide to write their own emu :)
     
  20. Miyazaki

    Miyazaki
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    Gamecube game discs have less than 1/3 of the capacity of the other two consoles, and the discs are a lot smaller. Which makes for faster loading times.

    Personally I would be surprised if the main two (Sony & MS) don't make their consoles more in line with the PSX.

    I see Nintendo continuing to be "games only".
     
  21. Squiffy

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    Don't most XBox developers use DirectX, which includes the standard Direct3d API?

    DirectX games on the PC work across chipsets, so I'd imagine they should on the XBox 2 too.

    Unless of course naughty developers have been "writing to the metal" or using specific nVidia calls to boost performance.
     
  22. Azrikam

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    My main gripes about the PS2 are the ones that have been covered. Having to buy memory cards just to play and only having 2 controller ports. It's rediculous the amount of worthless memory cards that I've got kicking around for the original PS and for the Dreamcast. The only thing I've bought for my XBox (besides extra controllers) is the AV scart lead.

    If consoles are going to head deeper into the world of online gaming, I don't see how they can't contain a hard drive. Frankly, I expect to see all 3 next gen systems with a built-in HD. (or as a bundle option at least) Memory cards have always been a ripoff for the consumer, though, so they might not be too keen to remove this income source. Any chance of seeing a compact flash slot on my next console? Didn't think so.
     
  23. eviljohn2

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    There's a GC adaptor that lets you use flash cards instead of conventional memory cards.

    Unfortunately games need to actually support the feature.
     
  24. Sinzer

    Sinzer
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    That doesn't account for HD loading times, which are supposedly faster access/seek and read/write. The reason the loading is quick is because of decent programming.

    "In June of 2002, nVidia released a new programming language called Cg, or C for Graphics, along with a free development kit and compiler. This language provides a tremendous number of functions for vertex and pixel shading, but is basically limited to just that. Cg operates above DirectX and compiles with the Cg compiler to assembly code used by DirectX. This allows developers to easily produce realistic three-dimensional scenes without having to program at the hardware level. The syntax is very similar to C, but it does not contain all of the power of C, namely pointers, although arrays are allowed. Cg also took some features from C++ such as function overloading. Companies such as Electronic Arts and Sega are using Cg to create more powerful games for the Xbox in far less time than in the past."

    This is taken from an internet source, not sure how reliable it is, which would explain the problem. Nvidia basically using a wrapper.
     
  25. nunew33

    nunew33
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    getting back to ps2 not being as good as I thought, Why are so few games using dolby digital when this appears to be standard on xbox games? And why are so few games using progressive scan compared to the xbox? On the subject of prog scan, does the DVD player output images in Prog scan, using componant cables, or the usual interlaced image
     
  26. Squiffy

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    As the above statement shows, that can't be the problem.

    CG is a higher level language that compiles down to DirectX code.

    IMHO it must be down to developers using GF3 specific calls/routines and/or writing to the metal.

    It may even be that MS optimised the XBox version of DirectX to make it specific (and optimised) for the nVidia graphics card.
     
  27. SeeNoWeevil

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    I'm sorry but that is complete nonsense, the HD is what makes the Xbox great.



    • Faster load times, compare to GTA on PS2 and initial load is down from around 50 secs to less than 10! Your also forgetting the HD caches 3 games at a time for almost instant load times on subsequent plays.
    • Better games, PGR2 constantly streams from the hard disk, I doubt it would have been possible otherwise. Not to mention the horrible constant disk seeking noise you get from the PS2 in games like GTA..horrible. Games like morrowind/fable would definitely be impossible without a HD.
    • No need for a memory card, enough reason alone for most to want a HD
    • Downloadable content - again another excellent feature not to mention one that is now making ms money
    • Custom soundtracks - need I go on?

    The bottom line is, no console manufactuer is going to ditch all these extra benefits now and unless memory chips become insanely cheap a hard disk is the only way to go.
     
  28. Sam

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    The problem with memory cards is that they are so ruddy expensive and don't have any capacity.

    There are certainly some benefits from having a hard drive, but I wouldn't care that my GC hasn't got one as long as I could buy one memory card that would be able to hold enough data for a generous collection of games (30-40).
     
  29. JUS

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    I don't think the ps2 can do real time dd. It can only replay prerecorded DD...for cut scenes etc.

    UK Xboxes don't support prog scan. US ones do. There is a little more info in the FAQ Neil put together. I believe the PS2 orginally didn't offer prog scan but has been changed recently to have it.
     
  30. Sinzer

    Sinzer
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    Errrrrrr....

    Read my comments regarding the Gamecube being able to load faster than PC, PS2 and X-box. It does not have a HD.

    Load times are down to correct programming and efficient use of hardware. HD tend to fragment a lot unless the OS is extremely efficient at storing data (ever known windows to be extremely efficient?). Like I said and others, there will a version that DOES NOT include a HD due to costs, unless they price their box at market prices in which case it would cost the same as a budget PC ~500-600 quid. No one in their right mind (addict grey importers aside) would pay that much for a console.

    HD means nothing to me as a console owner, I own a PC, which is far more customisable than any X-Box.

    Squiffy, you are most probably right, I simply don't know enough about it :p
     

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