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PS2 Mod Chips declared illegal

Discussion in 'Playstation Forums' started by johndon, Jul 21, 2004.

  1. johndon

    johndon
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  2. t-force

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    This could be very interesting. Do you suppose that this will mean the end of PS2 mod chips completely, or we will see import only mods created (if they can be)?
     
  3. johndon

    johndon
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    Well, the article suggests that possesion for commercial reasons is illegal but not for non commercial reasons but it then goes on to say that use of the chips is illegal so I guess its OK to have one as long as you dont use it!!

    John
     
  4. t-force

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    Like those speed camera detection thingies I guess.
     
  5. H4r7y

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    a pc shop was offering modding of ps2 and theyve stopped it now.
     
  6. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    - what about other consoles like the XB & CG - i've heard rumours of a GC mod chip (although they are not common) and the XB has various chips available. Surely for this to be law the same rule must apply to all make of console.

    To be honest I don't know why the software industry doesn't do away with piracy all together and go pay per play. This could be done online or through the purchase of coded game cards. This way you wouldn't waste money on duff games as people could play them for say an hour, decide they are naff and not play them again. Great games like Pro Evo 3 on the other hand would deservidly make more money than the poor games as people would pay to play them more. I paid £30 for pro evo 3 and have had probably a few hundred hours of play from the game. I've paid the same (or more) for other games and had anything from 10 mins to a few hours play from them. Admitidly the 10 min games usually go back but obviously ones that provide say 10-20 hours play don't

    This would also raise the quality of games and we'd hopefully stop getting rubbish like DRIV3R as the game wouldn't make enough money to justify it's development.
     
  7. idhutt

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    These are 100% legal to sell, own and use.
     
  8. Triggaaar

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    Apart from this High Court ruling (which could affect all consoles), are xbox mods illegal? I realise MS can ban you from live if you have the mod chip on, but is it illegal for a company to do the mod, or for you to own it? I didn't think so, as there are websites offering the service (which would be easy to shut down), but I asked my local game shop about the mod (in case there was anywhere local to get it done) and the guy said he couldn't make any comment on it for legal reasons.
     
  9. Dean

    Dean
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    The PS2 mod ban is a load of ****** IMO, though I still know of websites selling PS2 mods. Try www.psxservices.com for the Xbox mods.
     
  10. kelvin

    kelvin
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    The BBC's coverage of the story is here.

    As far as the impact on xbox modchips is concerned, I think it's a little less clear cut - with the PS2, all a modchip really did was bypass the copy protection system enabling users to play backups (in addition to legitimate games from different regions admittedly). With the xbox, a mod-chip dramatically increases the functionality of the machine - it's not solely for the benefit of playing "backups" (indeed, I think the main reason most people do it is to enable them to install legitimate aftermarket applications)...

    I'd be surprised if a court could apply the same reasoning to xbox modchips, as they have to the PS2 equivalent - certainly not without severely restricting civil liberties.

    Just my 2p worth :)

    Kelvin.
     
  11. dynamic turtle

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    Better remove those "Magic V modded" signatures from your profiles, lads!!
     
  12. kelvin

    kelvin
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    From BBC News:-


    Doesn't say anything about use, or posession for non-commercial purposes. It's only been made illegal to sell the chips - you're perfectly entitled to do as you please with your own equipment...

    K.
     
  13. dynamic turtle

    dynamic turtle
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    mmmm, true, but I think I'll err on the side of caution for the time being :)

    If only because the authorities would/could assume I know the identity & location of the mod-chipper!!

    DT
     
  14. Dean

    Dean
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    ha ha fair point :rotfl: a good question is it still legal to have if the mod was done before this court case? probably not but for now it stays in my sig :devil:
     
  15. kelvin

    kelvin
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    Of course it is - the modchips themselves aren't illegal (read my quote above) - selling, advertising, or using them for a commercial benefit however, is :)

    As for the "local authorities" hunting you down as a result of a comment in your signature on an internet forum... lol! :rotfl: Enforcing the prohibition of selling modchips from now on (for PS2's) is relatively easy, but there is no way in hell that Sony will, or can go after those who already have modded machines. It's your equipment, you're entitled to do as you please with it (whether Sony like it or not!). They can only attack the source.

    Kelvin,.
     
  16. Dean

    Dean
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    ok good stuff :smashin: I can play silent hill 4 now with peace of mind lol
     
  17. Stellavision

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    Do you think we'll see mod chip detector vans driving round soon? :rotfl:
     
  18. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    This is daft really as I got my PS2 modded simply so that I could play import games, not to play illegal pirate copies.

    People mod cars to make them look different and perform better so why can't we mod consoles!! Half the people who buy an X-Box buy it so that they can mod it and get it to do things and turn it into something more than a games machine.

    We buy the machines and we should be able to do what we want with them. Buying and using pirated software should always be illegal and it's by using more inventive ways to stop the problem that will defeat piracy. They simply have to make the content pay to play or offer monthly packages that people can sign up to, as is done with Sky & Cable.
     
  19. johndon

    johndon
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    gthom3 has a good point - Sony brought the same case is Italy and the judge there ruled that owners could do whatever they want with their consoles so the mode chips are legal.

    John
     
  20. H4r7y

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    but unfortunately, alot of other people arent as honest as you mate
     
  21. kelvin

    kelvin
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    But most people didn't...


    Chalk & Cheese IMO - people who mod cars do so at their own expense - not at the expense of game developers, and manufacturers who lose large sums of money due to piracy each year. Yes, most people who buy an Xbox go down the modchip route, but a modded Xbox has far more (legitimate) uses than a modded PS2... In many respects, an Xbox becomes more than a console when chipped. The PS2 remains fundamentally the same, but with the sole benefit being that copy/region protection is disabled...


    Yes, but that verdict looks at things from a slightly different angle though - the users viewpoint as opposed to the developers/manufacturers. Of course you're entitled to do what you like with your own console - that's not in question (hence the reason that modchips aren't illegal per se as a result of this decision), but you shouldn't be able to do so at the expense of those that support the industry.

    All IMHO of course :)

    K.
     
  22. CAS FAN

    CAS FAN
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    I still think that there can be no law against having a modded console, as long as you're not doing anything illegal.

    Regarding the X-Box - yes I agree more people do mod XB's for other reasons than to just play pirate software. Some do with the PS2 (i.e. they can have a HD fitted and be used to run other software such as MP3 players, emulators (there's a version of X-Mame for the PS2). The thing is that one of the main reasons (unfortunately) that people mod consoles (even XBoxes) is to play pirate software.

    This problem will never go away until the industry takes a good look at how it can eradicate the problem. Creating software protection methods does not work as people always find a way around them. The only way I see things working is like I have mentioned before - Have a pay to play system. Look at everything else - Digital TV, Electricity, Gas, Phone - they are all systems where you pay for your useage or for a certain package. Especially as broadband is now becoming common place I would expect to see pay 2 play systems come in within the next 5 years.
     
  23. kelvin

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    I know I sound like a stuck record, but from reading this thread, it seems to me (from comments like yours above) that most people think that modchips are now illegal.

    They aren't!! (Not for the average consumer in any case!) Read the articles again...

    There isn't, and for the forseeable future, there is unlikely to be any legislation that bans the use of modchips full stop. The law can only (really) tackle the source of a problem - anything else is likely to infringe an individual's civil liberties to too great an extent and cause uproar (deserved or not - that's people for you *shrug*).

    K.
     
  24. Stinja

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    Remember thats there's back history to this also. Sony wanted that big tax refund by classifying the PS2 as a computer, but by trying to get modchips made illegal they are also attempting to overturn the ability of PC owners to upgrade their machines (like mem or graphic-card upgrades), or so i understand. Unfortunately 3 countries have already declared that modchips are legal (Italy, Spain and Oz) and there are also EU laws regarding ownership and your ability to do with goods you own.

    So basically i think this ruling will get overturned again because it just isnt defendable, and potentially could make vast swathes of the population criminals. Sony's either got to accept the PS2 as a console, and therefore the somewhat tighter laws regarding them, or leave it as a PC and accept more freedom for the owner. They could all solve this by making consoles region-free, and then its more clear-cut that modchips would be for the illegal use of pirated software, but that opens up their whole poilcy of charging more for the country you live in...
     
  25. t-force

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    Not the case in Australia any more I'm afraid. Although the case originally went against Sony (they fluffed their presentation IIRC), they appealed and won, and it's now illegal to sell the chips there too.
     
  26. w3dal

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    Hi,

    I know this guy who went to court - what a small world!!

    There is no way that the modchip scene will die down, the modchips have been around for years and they are so easy to get hold of these days that they wont be able to stop everyone selling them or buying them to install in there PS2's

    This happened a couple of years ago to the NEO modchip series. They where about to release NEO4 which was the first direct boot chip and Sony got in and now its no more, although i do believe some people did get hold of a NEO4 modchip.

    The Messiah mod was starting to take shape around this time, but more people knew about the NEO modchips.

    Dal
     
  27. kelvin

    kelvin
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    Do vast swathes of the population sell and/or use modchips for commercial purposes then?! :confused:

    Kelvin
     
  28. Stinja

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    No but vast swathes upgrade their home computers. My point was that technically classifying the PS2 as a computer (for tax purposes) and then making modding your "PS2-computer" illegal could impact upon all computers - its if that precedent gets set there could be probs.

    But like i said, it could be solved by allowing consoles to be region-free (the legitamite side of modding) and then slam down hard on mod-chips for copied games (the illegal side). But its as likely as making the music industry realise sense over downloads, or the film industry of say releasing DVDs within 2-4 weeks of the movie release...
     
  29. kelvin

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    I agree (in theory) with the second part of your post, but I would like to just make a comment on the above...

    I agree, the above would be a particularly stupid step for Sony to take (for the industry as a whole), but it's just not going to happen. Even if Sony had succeeded in classifying the PS2 as a computer, they would never have gone as far as to try and prevent an individual from doing as they wish with it.

    Sony's "problem" in this instance is not with the fact that people are modding their consoles - it's with the mod's themselves (from a copyright perspective). One thing that people seem to be clinging onto in this thread is the fact that Sony (and all) don't like people chipping their consoles full stop - an area which (IMO) is beside the point. The only point of argument has been from a copyright perspective (as far as I can make out in any case)...

    I've not seen one thing which has attacked the use of modchips directly - everything centres around their use. That's the only point i'm really trying to make :)

    A lot of people seem to be panicking as a result of this decision - the reality of the situation is that to "Joe Public" on the street, it's of no real consequence.

    K.
     
  30. bigb

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    The big boys could resolve the piracy problem quickly-stop ripping off the punters with inflated software prices-an example-Game are selling Far Cry for the pc at £35.00. I bought a legit brand new copy off the net for £18.00 including postage. Software prices are too high!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
     

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