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Proud new arcam owner :)

Discussion in 'Arcam Owners' Forum' started by p3rfect, Dec 15, 2004.

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  1. p3rfect

    p3rfect
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    I have just won an eBay auction for an Arcam P90/3, it cost me £450.00 and I’m over the moon. Apparently it is 6 months old and in mint condition, although I have not seen it yet.

    Anyway, I have a quick question regarding biwiring...

    My set up is probably a little different to the rest of you all, ok a lot! I have 2 x Technics 1210's turntables, Ortofon Concorde dj's carts and a Pioneer DMJ500 dj mixer (yep I'm a bedroom dj; don't groan it’s what I call fun). The mixer is high quality, albeit perhaps, not high fidelity and cost me £475.00. I intend to use this mixer as a preamp for the P90 (at least for now) with my current pair of Mission M74’s that will do until I upgrade imminently; B&W 705 stand mounts are what I'm ultimately considering unless someone can recommend a better combination for use with dance music?

    So my question is: exactly how would I biwire a set of speakers in this set up? I'm a little confused after reading the Arcam manual online and now have the dreaded feeling I may need to buy an integrated amp in order to do this? Not the end of the world if push comes to shove as I have a NAD C370 I could painfully remove from the living room.

    Please let me know which cables I require, how to do it, if it's worth it and go easy on me; I'm new at this!!

    Thanks,
    Dominic
     
  2. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    You just get a speaker cable that is bi wireable, you connect the 2 positives and 2 negatives to the power amp and then run one to the low and one to the high terminals on the speakers, remeber to take the linking bar out of the speaker terminals.

    does that make sense?

    your cable if you have one made up with banana plugs will have a one pair at the amp end and 2 pairs at the speaker end.

    Oh and the Pioneer mixer is actually very impressive btw, Technics are the weak link, vestax sound so much better, but, and it is a big but, they aren't 1210s ;)
     
  3. p3rfect

    p3rfect
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    Thanks for the speedy reply :) I think it makes sense and sure it will when i see the thing, I just don't want to buy the wrong ones to begin with!

    How about something like these although I'm probably after 2/3 meters as the decks are quite hi up:

    "Nordost Red Dawn loudspeaker cable,2x1m bi-wire,terminated with 4xZ plugs at speaker end and 2xZ plugs at the amplifier end as new."

    £90.00 on http://www.adverts.hififorsale.com

    "4 x Z plugs at one end and 2 x Z plugs at the other" - being what I need to look out for?

    The 1210's maybe the weakest link, but like you said they are 1210's :p Glad to hear the DJM500 is a good buy tho :)

    Got any recommendations for speakers? My music room is about 10ft x 9ft and so I'm probably looking at stand mounts... Budget well erm maybe £800 at a push, would probably go 2nd hand route again... couple of hundred more for stands and cables. Music taste is obviously dance (house all the way to hard trance), but may plug in my iPod from time time time for a little of The Stone Roses ;)
     
  4. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    There are loads of speakers worth considering, have a read of the speaker forum for an idea.

    If you are into your house then I would consider getting some decent bookshelf speakers and a sub to handle the bass.
    With the way some of the house stuff is going back in style to early 90's again there is some superb dirty bass lines at the moment that are down lower than just speakers alone will pick up.
    Plus you can set the sub and main speakers up to work nicely together, leaving the sub to do the work and the mains to have an easy life.

    My favourite speakers under a grand are the quad 11L's, very deatiled but never sharp, great for house etc. as you can listen for hours.
    These are £380, and come up used for around £250+ spend £100 on stands and the cable you mention is a good cable.
    This would leave you a decent amount for a sub, personally I like the Rel stuff but alot of people on here prefer SVS and similar, so have a good search round.

    The DMJ500 is actually very good as a pre amp, I was amazed by it, I had a Cyrus pre in my system a few years back when the DJM500 first came out and stuck it in there when I was having a go with some CDJ's, and it was nearly as good as the Cyrus.
     
  5. cameronl

    cameronl
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    imho the arcam won't be able to drive the quads properly. I have an A75+ & an A32 and neither could drive the Quad 11L's properly...though for some reason the Quad 12L's did seem better...I ended up getting the 12L's and using another amp.

    CaM
     
  6. p3rfect

    p3rfect
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    Cheers fellas. I've had a quick look at the Quad 11L's and suitably impressed. Have also been seen second hand:

    Dynaudio- audience 52 £500
    Dynaudio- audience 52SE £750

    Have been recommended by a few different people now for my type of music, but I don't think you can biwire them :/

    Never heard a system with a seperate sub, Could that be run off the Arcam's unused 3rd channel or something?
     
  7. RaceTripper

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    Dominic...

    The Dynaudios cannot be biamped, but they don't really need to be if used with good amps (like your P90).

    I'm using Dynaudio Audience speakers in an Arcam AV setup and they sound great, both with digital and analog source. I have an AVR300 I'm using as a pre/pro and Alpha series amps (10P/3, 10P/2, 9P) to power them.

    In any case, if you can afford the 52SE don't even consider the 52. The 52s are great speakers, but the 52SE are leaps and bounds above. I use 52SE as side surrounds and they actually sound better than the 72 I use as mains. In a few months I'm trading up the 72 to a pair of the new 72SE.

    Dean
     
  8. p3rfect

    p3rfect
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    So are the Audience 52's (not SE) are still a good option for dance type music then? I will have to see how much I really have before I concider the SE's, but £500 would be preferable over £750!!

    Would bi-wiring not much much difference? The Arcam user manual really bigs it up! I'm wondering if £500 could be spent better on a biwireable set of speakers, or do the 52's just kick ass anyway?
     
  9. RaceTripper

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    Even the plain 52s are great speakers, and tremendous value for the money. They kick the butts of many floorstanders in the range. The 52SEs are way better because they use Contour drivers and crossover, but I doubt anyone would regret buying a pair of 52s either.

    Just because a speaker isn't bi-wirable or bi-ampable doesn't make it bad. Dynaudio just designed their crossovers better, so it isn't needed.
     
  10. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    You would connect the sub either to the same ouput from the amp, or you could daisy chain it, ie amp to sub then out of the sub into the speakers and use the sub as a crossover.

    I think most speaker manufacturers admit that bi-wiring is more of a marketing thing, (ooh that may stir it up a bit) people expect speakers to be able to be bi-wired.
    Personally I can hear sod all difference between 2 runs of £100 cables bi-wired against a single run of £200 cable, obviously from the same manufacturer.

    The Dynaudios are very good, a little dry sounding for me but well worth a listen too.
     
  11. David-Bel

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    Seconded. I am an happy owner of 52SE too and they are stunning in every area. They're able to deliver deep bass, and go much deeper than other standmounted speakers. Their strength is also their absolute neutrality.
     
  12. p3rfect

    p3rfect
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    Cheers boys, very helpful! The SE's have sadly been sold so I've put an offer in for the straight 52's that will leave me plenty for stands and cables. Think I will wait and see what these puppies sound like before adding a sub, can't wait! Will let ya know the outcome :p
     
  13. David-Bel

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    The 52 SE go as low as 42Hz if I do remember well. I doubt this is the case with the 52's. So you might well want to add a sub later on I guess.
     
  14. p3rfect

    p3rfect
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    Subs are pretty pricey! Which ones would you recommend? REL seems to get mentioned everywhere.
     
  15. David-Bel

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    I'm absolutely no expert but if I had to buy one for stereo, I would get a Rel indeed. The Stampede should be fine provided your room isn't too large. IMHO, it is good value for money.

    There are obviously many other reputed brands, but I can't comment on them.
    The Kef Sub I currently have is just fine for HC but that's it.

    Cheers,
    David
     
  16. David-Bel

    David-Bel
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    Have a look in the Rel Forum of the Subwoofer section.
     
  17. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
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    Try and track down one of the ST range used, Strata, storm etc.

    The nice thing with a sub is what it does at low levels, you don't have to have the system cranked right up to get decent bass, I don't usually get to listen to my music till 11pm (when my wife has finished watching all the **** on tv) so I can't have it at reference level, and without a sub it sounds flat and the soundstage dissapears.

    Unless you go for something that can handle 30hz well then I would say a sub is a must, especially with the type of music you listen to.
    Put it like this, if you listen without a sub you will be happy, add one and it will bring loads to your system, take it away and you will really notice the difference.
     
  18. RaceTripper

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    The primary difference bewteen the two is quality of sound, not so much freq. response.

    The 52SE go down to 45Hz where the 52 go to 52 Hz. Not much of an audible difference in bass response, if any.

    Incidently...I use a pair of 72s as mains and 52SE as side surrounds. My friend and I compared both pairs as mains using CD analog output from my DV88 Plus. Even though the 72s go lower (down to 28Hz), we both agreed that the 52SE are clearly superior in every other respect. I'm now planning to replace my 72s with either stand mounted 52SE or with the new 72SE.

    The Dyn bookshelves are very impressive speakers. Very detailed, revealing, and neutral.
     
  19. RaceTripper

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    The RELs are great subs. I also like the Dynaudios. I have a Dyn Sub30A. I recently demoed the newer Sub300, and have just ordered its big brother, the Sub500. The Sub300 was very impressive. The bass is very tight, detailed, and controlled without even a hint of boominess. I expect the Sub500 to be even better.

    The Sub300 is US$1400 and the Sub500 is US$1900. RELs are priced similarly, although they have a larger product range that starts less expensive and goes much higher.
     
  20. p3rfect

    p3rfect
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    Managed to pick up a pair of 52's for £400 + p&p, unused and boxed. Just gotta wait for the money to clear and they will be shipped. Apparently, the guy's father was Dynaudio UK until a court settlement where he recived products as a payout...

    "I have 62's/82's/contour 1.4's and many others" all usused but about 12 months old I believe.

    Anyone want's his contact details lemme know.

    Subwise, I'm gonna have to check out some prices I still need some cables and stands so watching my buget now!!
     

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