Question Projectors, Its been a while, 4k or no 4k?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by mrapbp, Dec 27, 2016.

  1. mrapbp

    mrapbp
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    Hi All,

    It has been a few years since I last looked at a projector setup, I used to be on top of all the latest technologies but it has passed me by over the last 7 years or so. So please bear with me and any advise would be greatly appreciated. I have had about 6 PJ set ups over the years but we are talking 15 years ago with the lst one being about 8 years ago and my knowledge is massivly out of date. I know things have moved on a little since my last setup!!

    I am now in a situation where I have a big enough room and sufficient funds to get a decent setup. What I dont know is if 4k is worth spending the extra on. The Sony VPL-VW520ES seems to be one of the better viewed 4K projectors but what ever way you cut it £8.5k is a lot of money if a decent 1080p PJ will do the job just as well (or near enough). Something like the Sony VPL-HW65ES at £2.5k would seem to be a good machine and I could easily buy the rest of my setup (need a new amp, speakers, screen etc) for less than the 4K Sony on its own. Also there doesnt appear to be much 4K source material available and the 4K side of my 79" Samsung TV goes largely unused.

    The one thing I would say is that typically if I dont get the best kit I can afford or is available then I end up selling and buying again, 'buy once buy right' as my old pappy used to say!

    So any thoughts/advice would be appreciated as I am really keen to get back on the PJ wagon!

    Thanks!
     
  2. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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    I would look at something like the Epson 9300 at around £3000, or the JVCs from around £4000. They aren't true 4k but use 'eshift' to use two offset 1080 images to create something inbetween - more like 3k. Both can take UHD so are worth the extra over 1080 IMHO. Try and get a demo to be sure it's what you want though.
     
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  3. mrapbp

    mrapbp
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    Thanks for the response! I am going to struggle to get a demo as there really isn't anywhere near me but will certainly go and have a look at a few before I buy.

    So from your response it would suggest you dont think 4K pj's are worth the extra?
     
  4. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    <subscribed>

    I'm also very much wondering this - though I am lucky enough to have a good nearby shop with demo room. Happy owner of a Sony 45 - wondering about going 4K but £8k+ is just way too much - unless it is mind-blowingly different :) Faux-4k sounds more realistic though.

    Are there any industry projections (pun not intended) / guesses to when a real 4k projector costs under say £4k? Seems crazy that a 4k tv is so cheap in comparison.
     
  5. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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    The only affordable 4k projectors currently available are the Sony models, and although they are very good, so are the JVCs and Epsons fauK models - the resolution difference is small when you compare them in a split screen demo, and you will probably find that wide colour gamut has a little more visual impact than actual 4k does vs fauK.

    There will come a time when 4k is normal and affordable like 1080 is now, but in the overall scheme of things, it's not worth the extra over fauK IMHO unless you're not worried about the cost, and make sure the Sony's are fully WCG capable.

    My favourite pj right now is the laser Epson 10500 or older 10000 which for me produce the best overall image in the price range. JVCs have the best contrast and black levels when set up for it though, so they may be the pj to go for if that is high on your image attribute list. What makes the Epson so appealing is hard to put into words which is why a demo is the only way to see the difference.
     
  6. xar

    xar
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    As a native 4K projector owner I would actively advise not getting one (not yet at least). The resolution bump is barely noticeable on most discs and where it is it's not night and day. Save a shed load and get a good e-shift type model as suggested. The Epson 9300 or LS10500 seem popular choices, not that I can personally comment on either.
     
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  7. mrapbp

    mrapbp
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    I like the idea of the EH-TW9300W, looks like its the same as the 9300 but wireless. That appeals to me! The price looks pretty good as well, might be worth a look
     
  8. Marshall Mike

    Marshall Mike
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    My dealer told me he thinks the prices will drop in 2017 as one of the big manufacturers will release a more affordable model and the rest will follow suit to remain competitive. I'm not planning a change until this happens, just too expensive for me with the current prices.
     
  9. mil1lion

    mil1lion
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    If you can afford to wait then wait for more 4k projectors to come to market. 4K DLP projectors should make them more affordable and kind of sit between the E-Shift and native 4K. As I understand they should be on the way next year.
     
  10. bandyka

    bandyka
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    I had two Sony 4K pj last year both suffered badly from gamma droop/panel degradation. At this level its unacceptable. We did a shootout between eshift and native 4k and suffice to say i sold my Sony and got an LS10000 never looked back.when you feed 4k content to eshift it's seriously close.
     
  11. mrapbp

    mrapbp
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    The LS10000 seems to be well thought of and can be had for around £4.5K so looks to me like a decent proposition. Do you think there is there any point paying the extra £1k for the newer LS10500?
     
  12. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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    You might be able to get them for closer to £4k if there are still units available. A few of us here have (some were cheaper) so it might be worth a try.

    The main differences between the 10000 and 10500 is that the 10500 is now HDR capable and has better WCG compatibility - you don't need a Linker or similar to get ot to work. Also the P3 filter drops less lumens so the 10500 is brighter when showing WCG. Not sure if that's worth the extra £1000 to £1500 price difference to you though.
     
  13. mrapbp

    mrapbp
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    Thanks for all the advise so far chaps, Looks like one of the LS units might do the job. Will see if I can get a demo anywhere! Would be nice to see it up against one of the leading 1080p models mentioned above to see if there is £2k's worth of difference.

    On another note I no longer have a 5.1 setup, again I have had too many to mention over the years (last one being a really expensive Arcam and M&K setup!) but always found it a bit of a pain/faff and rarely bothered. When I decided to buy my Samsung UE78HU8500 I decided that I wouldn't bother with 5.1 sound and went with the Sonos Playbar and Sub which I have been perfectly happy with. Am I kidding myself that it will do for a PJ setup??

    Cheers!
     
  14. bandyka

    bandyka
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    The LS is definitely worth it over others in the category, it has many advantages IMO. The laser alone puts into another world. I would get the 10.5K if finances allow.
     
  15. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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    I think having 'big sound' with big movies from a projector make the experience more enjoyable, but each to their own.

    Atmos adds a 3D element to the audio so you may find that worth having as well, but getting a demo might be best so that you can hear what it offers and then decide if it's worth the effort and expense.

    Bass has a lot to do with the audio so I can see how a sound bar and decent sub might get you most of the way there though.
     
  16. bandyka

    bandyka
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    Atmos adds a lot more than just overhead.
     
  17. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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    Correct. As I said it adds a 3D element, and doesn't sound as flat as 7.1 does in comparison.

    It even improves 7.1 due to better steering of elements
     
  18. bandyka

    bandyka
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    I meant better dynamics overall, and yes exactly as you say.
     
  19. Supersonic

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    Just wanted to thank the OP for asking my question for me!

    I've yet to download the manual and have a good read, but does the LS have a blanking feature like the 9300/(W), and if so is it any darker than the non-image part of the projection?

    I guess it ought to be, or else what's the point?! Reason I ask is so I can potentially be shot of the small black bars when content doesn't quite match the screen AR.
     
  20. KelvinS1965

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    Any image blanking on a projector will only be as dark as the blackest the projector can project, so it will be no better in your case. The projector would have to have physical masks right in front of the panel(s) to achieve what you require and I'm not aware of any commercial projectors that do this.

    Blanking can be useful though if you have slight overspill off the edge of your screen. I also use it to prevent the top and bottom of the picture appearing above/below my 2.40:1 screen on those films that change aspect part way through.
     
  21. bandyka

    bandyka
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    Except the blanking on the LS is totally blank as it shuts off it's lasers so there NO light hitting the screen or are you referring to the masking feature (there is a blank button the remote which kills all light)?? I assume so in which case the LS has better blacks than the 9300 so it will appear darker.
     
  22. Supersonic

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    Thanks for the replies.

    If the blanking feature is just the projector projecting its best black, then it's no different from any 16:9 projector showing a 2.35:1 film (for example).

    The terminology is a bit pants, the 9300 manual talks about blanking, which to me means masking. My 3200 has a 'Blank' button which just shuts off the entire picture.

    Sounds like the 'blanking' feature is indeed of limited use. I tend to widen the image to the edges and put up with the minor black bars, rather than lose some image at the edges. It's not a huge deal, was just wondering how effective it is.

    (I haven't had my 2.35 screen very long and I'm still impressed with how much better those films look cf. projecting them onto a 16:9 one. Especially as the new screen is larger than my old one :) ).
     
  23. KelvinS1965

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    Does the LS turn off the laser at the top and bottom of the letterboxed image then? That would be really good if it did for those of us who use the zoom method on a 'scope screen. Having said that, with a dark screen surround I don't find it an issue it's only because I'm still finishing off my room and currently have a section of white wall :eek: immediately below the screen so I can 'see' the bottom black bar in certain circumstances with my JVC X500. It'll be fine with a bit of Devore in place though.

    The lamp will still stay on during this mode, so that is still the projector's 'best black' rather than full shut off like the LS models can do. My X500 has a 'hide' function which kicks in the dynamic iris as well if switched on, but after 4-5 seconds I can start to see the black screen in the dark.
     
  24. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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    The only time the Epson laser turns off is full fade to black. It's not a scanning light source but acts like a lamp as a single light source, and can be modulated.
     
  25. Apone

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    I compared a (1080p faux 4K) JVC X5000 to a (native 4k) Sony 320es with 4k Bluray discs and preferred the image on the JVC.

    Hands down the JVC was better and over 1800 quid cheaper to boot.
     
  26. bandyka

    bandyka
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    I definitely wouldn't say that (i had them both) but the X7000 is on par with better blacks. Check out our Sony 320ES vs JVC X7000 shootout on the the US forum we have them siude by side.
     

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