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Projector set up

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by buns, Oct 30, 2003.

  1. buns

    buns
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    No help from me...... at least not here
     
  2. theritz

    theritz
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    ..................... now there's an invitation I simply can't resist ! :D Hopefully Gordon or Paul O'Hale might drop by and give the full low-down, but here's my 2c.

    I reckon that a professional calibration (using the approriate equipment) would not be transferrable from one machine to another of the same model............ manufacturing tolerances in the temperature of the lamp (and the PJ itself), differences in screen material, differences in the environment (wall colour, placement etc) all would combine to create a different outcome using the same settings on each projector. It's probably fair enough to say that for the un-tutored eye the diference might not be that noticeable, but the effect of having a professional calibration of an AE300 was illustrated some time ago over on avsforum...... A member was fortunate enough to have an acquaintance (ISF qualified) calibrate his PJ and the outcome posted with before and after screenshots was evidence of the difference in the performance.

    I'm assuming that access to service menus and the capability to adjust the projector at a sufficiently fine level is a pre-requisite - My AE100 responds well to tweaking with an FLD filter and setting Contrast, Brightness and Sharpness with Avia, but the level of adjustment is quite coarse and limited compared to the level of adjustment I've seen available (enviously....) on the HS10 or HT1000.

    Currently someone is doing some serious tweaking on a Z2 over on avs.............................. and while it might be premature to judge definitively, if the poster is to be believed, there is room for considerable improvement "out of the box". Is it worth doing ? Got to be yes.......... on the basis of the bargain that Ivojo Pre-orderers are getting, a reasonable outlay on calibration by someone who has the appropriate equipment and who knows what they are doing should leave you with a stonking picture... Though you'd probably want to settle on your final dvd playback method before getting it done.

    /waits for Gordon to de-bunk this thoroughly !!!

    Sean G.
     
  3. Kramer

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    I concur :D
     
  4. buns

    buns
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    so you think that the factory settings would be better than copied calibrated settings from someone elses room?

    I have sent an email to Paul's company and am waiting to hear back.....

    I saw the guy at avs with the z2, but by the looks of it, he has all the gear available, so unfortunately beyojnd what most of us can try.

    Another slight problem, surely there it the risk that from release to release of the h3d software, the settings i might need to use could change? This would totally ruin any ideas towards getting calibration..... i guess i best ask this at immersive....

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  5. theritz

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    Mmmmmmmmmmmm..... don't think I meant to give that impression - depends on out-of-the-box performance of the projector.... I'd "Avia" the projector in any event, and check through some "reference" dvds after to confirm that it was ok..... for instance, some recent screenshots posted here (normal warning about screenshot dependability notwithstanding) seemed "off" to my eye from a colour perspective.

    To summarise, I'd "Avia" it for contrast, brightnes and sharpness, set colour to the best of my ability/liking, and provided the PJ was up to it, factor in ISF along the upgrade path.

    Gordon would probbaly be best to answer definitively about the effect of updates to Holo3d etc., but I'd figure that any software/hardware changes would probably require additional tweaking.

    I don't go installing the latest Catalyst drivers/whatever, and if I want to try out new hardware/software, I have a second HD in there with a clean install and all relevant HCPC software so that my system doesn't get b*ggered if it doesn't work out.

    I'd love to see a decent before/after of an ISF calibration (as well as an account of what was done from someone with experience of PJs, so I say go for it - just make sure to tell us all about it !!!

    All the best,
    Sean.
     
  6. buns

    buns
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    Of course with avia, any adjustment and i'll have avia out, for 5 mins fiddling it does piles...... but it is limited, wont help in the slightest if grayscale is off or color temperature is a bit wonky!

    The whole pc situation is a tad worrying, i posted on immersive asking about this, but i would assume that release to release tweaking would be needed..... id need a live in calibrator the way immersive works! :(

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  7. Kramer

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    ISF calibration :eek: Not warranted on "entry level" digital projectors IMHO.

    OK, you should have perfect colour temp/greyscale tracking (within projector limitations) after calibration, but age takes its toll on a PJ. Lamp output fades/changes characteristics, panels/optics "evolve" (AE100 case in point) etc. etc.

    Given the low cost of the Z2 (relatively speaking), spending even £250 (arbitrary figure) on ISF seems excessive.

    My (non-ISF) 2p.

    :smoke:
     
  8. buns

    buns
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    Thats what i was looking for! :D

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  9. Kramer

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    Just confirmed your appointment Ad - ISF guys (yes, guys - two of 'em :eek:) will be arriving the day your Z2 arrives. They'll "repeat visit" you regularly in the coming months to keep your PJ at its best.

    :D
     
  10. buns

    buns
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    We have a spare double guest room specially for situations like this..... the other half of the double room is not provided foc :D

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  11. theritz

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    Kramer :mad: :mad:

    You had to spoil it, didn't you........


    ............... I was waiting for a "Hey guys, where do you all get you ISF calibrations from ??!!" thread from our latest serial poster............:D

    As you say, AD greyscale and colour temp are the issues - if we could find a decent accessible way of solving that issue then we could continue to tweak merrily away............



    Sean G.
     
  12. Kramer

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    2 issues.

    1. Measuring
    2. Adjusting.

    1. Measuring equipment (Colourfacts etc..) is very, very expensive :(
    2. Need access to panel gains/bias for adjustment.

    Can these be accessed on the Z2?
     
  13. darren7

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    THIS looks good.

    the new model has a meter and looks good, it talks about setting up the grey scale.

    Maybe you could split the cost with someone. Looks quite good though, what do you think.
     
  14. Kramer

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    SMART is OK (actually, by all accounts, far better than OK), but is limited.

    For colour temp. & accurate greyscale tracking, a colourometer/spectrometer is nesessary.

    Again, all useless unless individual panel adjustments are available.
     
  15. buns

    buns
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    im not serial for long...... i have no projector and im absorbing everything possible before i get it and go back to my usual sparse posting in this forum!

    OUr issues..... grayscale...... surely all we need to set this is a light intensity meter and a calibration source?

    color temp...... what does color temp actually refer to? I know plenty on particles, but talk about temperature and this to me suggests energy which suggests wavelength, which i could easily calibrate, but im assuming that is not actually what temperature refers to?

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  16. Kramer

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    Sean wasn't referring to you Ad ;)

    Colour temp. refers to how "warm" colours appear. i.e. "cold" blues, "warm/hot" reds etc...

    Basically how "white" projected white actually is. Not "pinkish" (warm) or "blueish" (cold).

    D6500K AFAIK is a "neutral white - have a look at your PC monitor - usually various "D" setting presets.

    :)
     
  17. darren7

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    The smart 3 has changed a lot since the old smart 2.

    THIS link talks all colour temp d6500.

    Darren
     
  18. buns

    buns
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    ok but what actually is it!? What does it refer to in terms of photons? Grayscale is simply the number of photons per second (or intensity), color temp must have an analog

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  19. Kramer

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    .......err.........AFAIK it kills Klingons (them ones off the starboard bow Jim).

    :D
     
  20. buns

    buns
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    :D

    on a quick read, color temps and grayscale seem both to be referring to intensity...... so by that understanding all i would need to do is get hold of a couple of reference lamps and borrow a spectrometer...... but someone is going to tell me im wrong i hope, cos it cant possibly be that easy!

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  21. theritz

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    Ad,

    You have Pm..........;)


    Sean G.
     
  22. theritz

    theritz
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    Ad,


    That other source of av goodness across the Atlantic had a post recently by a guy who adopted the diy route exactly as you've just suggested....... can't quite recall the outcome - he got lots of "advice" from some of the pros (and not so "pros", if you know what I mean....).


    Sean.
     
  23. buns

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    I'll have to have a dig out for that thread, thanks Sean. It really would be easy to do if my ideas are correct, we have a little diffraction grating spectrometer in the lab which is dead easy to use..... cant say i can immediately think how to quantify white, but im sure its possible!

    Thanks

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  24. theritz

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    Ad,

    A little (!) searching unearthed this thread on avs................... you might also find this thread interesting.

    Also worth a look is this article by Mark Hunter of Milori.



    Sean.
     
  25. buns

    buns
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    thanks Sean, I hadnt gotten round to searching yet, im spending long enough on here during work hours as it it!

    I'll have a read later on

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  26. Boris Blank

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    Colorfacts can now be hired for $299 for a month. Given the $ to £ exchange rate, thats quite a deal.

    Having used Colorfacts, I can confirm that a total numpty can calibrate their pj in less than an hour and have PERFECT grayscale and D65 !

    Well worth the investment if you fancy doing it yourself and you can calibrate everything/anything you want during the months hire (your tv, your neighbours tv, your neighbours neighbours tv......you get the drift!)

    Info here http://www.milori.com/sales/

    And yes, they will ship to the UK, $48 by priority mail!
    Paul
    Edit for spelling mistake!
     
  27. buns

    buns
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    Surely though you can get a pro to do it for you for $300!?

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  28. darren7

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    No a pro will want around that, thats why THIS
    could get more use.


    Darren
     
  29. buns

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    but what i have been told, the smart product arent up to the task.....

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  30. Boris Blank

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    Darren,
    Colorfacts IS what the pro's use, its retail price is $2495 :rolleyes:
    Paul
     

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