Projector & Screen

sokoma

Novice Member
Hi,

I am planning to buy a projector for less than <3k. The room is quite bright although i will be putting a blackout blind. Main usage would be netflix, movies, gaming (a bit but not a priority)

I am currently hesitating between:
-The optoma UHD 65
-Epson TW9400
-JVC - LX-UH1
-BenQ W5700

I wouldn't mind buying a used one as well, would you know which model I could get in a similar range?

Also in terms of screen, how important it is to have a 4k ready screen? I am hesitating between an Elite Screen (Manual, Manual HT 16:9 projector screen) and the amazon one (Amazon product)

Is there any difference or is it worth putting the additional money into it?

Finally, any roller blind that you would recommend?

I'll have a monitor audio silver 5.1.2 with this...

Thanks!

Sokma
 

noob0101

Active Member
Hi,

I am planning to buy a projector for less than <3k. The room is quite bright although i will be putting a blackout blind. Main usage would be netflix, movies, gaming (a bit but not a priority)

I am currently hesitating between:
-The optoma UHD 65
-Epson TW9400
-JVC - LX-UH1
-BenQ W5700

I wouldn't mind buying a used one as well, would you know which model I could get in a similar range?

Also in terms of screen, how important it is to have a 4k ready screen? I am hesitating between an Elite Screen (Manual, Manual HT 16:9 projector screen) and the amazon one (Amazon product)

Is there any difference or is it worth putting the additional money into it?

Finally, any roller blind that you would recommend?

I'll have a monitor audio silver 5.1.2 with this...

Thanks!

Sokma


What are the color of the walls?

Room dimensions?

Seating distance?

Can't access the Amazon screen, what is the model?

Can you do DIY, paint with a paint gun?
 

sokoma

Novice Member
Thanks.

The room dimension is 3m x 3.6m. The projector will be at c.3m from the screen.

Walls will be white. One wall has a big window which will have a blackout blind (black)

Seating distance will be 3m (a bit short but it is is what it is)

The screen is: AmazonBasics 100 inch (254 cm) Manual Pull Down Projector Screen 4K / 8K Ultra HDR 3D Ready (16:9)

The room is being built so I can have our builder doing something if it was optimum (if there is a way to avoid a screen it is even better!)

Thanks again
 

noob0101

Active Member
Thanks.

The room dimension is 3m x 3.6m. The projector will be at c.3m from the screen.

Walls will be white. One wall has a big window which will have a blackout blind (black)

Seating distance will be 3m (a bit short but it is is what it is)

The screen is: AmazonBasics 100 inch (254 cm) Manual Pull Down Projector Screen 4K / 8K Ultra HDR 3D Ready (16:9)

The room is being built so I can have our builder doing something if it was optimum (if there is a way to avoid a screen it is even better!)

Thanks again

I don't know the quality of Amazon screens, Elite are a more recognized brand. Other options are from Sapphire, Duronic, Akia (also Elite), Spitfire.

Don't linger too much on 4K screens, it's largely marketing. Screens that are smoother and can resolve details better are much more expensive. A simple white screen would do fine.

Compile the link:

/1692721894385217/

As the video shows, wall reflections (not to mention ambient light) will have a severe effect on black level.
So room treatment is important. Applicable to any projector setup.
From this post onwards:
Or this thread:

A projector with good contrast/black level will still have some benefit in a room with white walls in dark scenes since there is not a lot of light reflecting from the walls to wash out the image.

A screen diagonal should only be chosen after using the PJ on the wall for a while.
General ratio is 10-12" (or more) in diagonal for every foot/30.38cm in distance.
So for 300 cm that would mean between 100 and 120" (or more). Getting a too small screen is one of the major mistakes new uers make. I suggest an 120-130" screen.

Unfortunately projectors with good contrast don't have the kind of of throw ratio for a screen larger than ~100":

The best option with a lower throw ratio is Benq W2700. Does not have the blacks of the TW9400, which is an overall better machine.

So you have to choose between good picture quality (blacks especially) and a larger more immersive screen.
You could move the seating closer, but moving the seating closer to keep the scale/proprtion relative to viewing distance only works with screens over 120" (IMO).
In the sense that getting a 65" TV a moving the seating closer is not the same as a say 130" screen with seating from the same distance (proportionally).

Lag is ~25ms with the TW9400 and 50-60ms with the W2700.

In your setup I would only recommend the TW9400 or W2700, no other model.

There are screens that help with black level and with rejecting ambient light (minimally), but they require longer throw ratios to avoid visual artifacts like hotspot/sparkle.

Paint mixes with ALR properties/contrast/black level enhancing exist that can be customized. Can be applied on a smooth white wall or a smooth white screen. These paint mixes can be high quality, so this would "fix" the 4K screen query.
To do that create a new thread here:
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
You need to sort out the most important thing first.
-Room treatment or ALR screen or Paint mix (good luck)

Minimising light coming into the room does not take care of reflections within the room. Basically you need a blacked out room. If you can't do this, then you will hugely benefit from an ALR screen which will make your projector look much better than a projector 2-3x its price.

After that, with the budget left, look at what projector you can afford. I'd suggest going second hand but if you can't or don't want to, an Epson 9400 is easily my pick. However if you choose an ALR screen, they're usually £1000+, so that does take you outside of the 9400 budget wise, but a 9300 would be great too (just no 4k/60).

Room treatment is the best for image quality when lights are off
ALR screen is the best for convienance and having the lights on or a curtain not totally drawn or a room with white walls or walls which aren't black
Paint mix is a really affordable alternative to ALR screens but not without its huge cons (massive ammounts of DIY and experimenting required).
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Another PJ I've looked at for the DLP range is the Optoma UHD52ALV. I imagine with an ALR screen, the blacks might be okay and the brightness sounds insane with a quoted 3500 lumen output. It throws a huge image.
 

noob0101

Active Member
@kenshingintoki
If OP follows the instructions for the paint mix there are very knowledgeable who can help so he does not have to try.
The fact that the paint mix is customizable is a plus, not a minus.

The 9300 can do 4K60, it can't do 4K HDR 60Hz.

With the 9400 at lowest throw ratio the screen is ~100". With a seating distance of 3m, that is rather small IMO.

Continuing to ALRs. For a large enough screen, throw ratios are going to be 1.35x or lower. This is below the recommended throw of most ALR screens, but some users are fine with it.

Even with a W2700 which has about the shortest throw except for some non lamp models with poor contrast/black level, the highest diagonal screen is ~120". At minimum throw, 1.13x, I would not recommend to use an ALR screen.

The UHD52ALV is non RGBRGB color wheel model which has worse color and contrast than the W2700. The W2700 can handle an 120" screen.
Maybe the UHD51, which is inferior to the W2700 in terms of PQ.
But both Optomas have a minimum throw of 1.21x, which means a screen no larger than 112".
The UHD52ALV also has 60-80ms lag.
The UHD52ALV is a sports/ambient light projector, I don't know why you would recommend it.
 
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tegonik

Active Member
For me in such a small room with white walls the most important is the screen, and not the projector. You have to go to a soft ALR like celexon Dynamic ALR or the screenline Radiance 0.8. On these screens you will not have big hot spot like the most ALR even if you shoot from 1.5 throw ratio and you will earn on contrast and on the wall reflections (this is the most important in small white rooms).
What i mean is that a cheap DLP projector will give much better picture overall than the TW9400 (the best projector option right now on that price range for sure) on a classic white screen. Of course the best combination is TW9400 with one of the screens i suggest you, will be a killer setup for this room. Trust me, when i changed my white screen with an ALR is like i re-discover the projection. My living room is almost the same (2,90m X 4m). I have put an 110' celexon dynamic ALR, but i project only 100' picture.

DSC01619.jpg
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
@kenshingintoki
If OP follows the instructions for the paint mix there are very knowledgeable who can help so he does not have to try.
The fact that the paint mix is customizable is a plus, not a minus.

The 9300 can do 4K60, it can't do 4K HDR 60Hz.

With the 9400 at lowest throw ratio the screen is ~100". With a seating distance of 3m, that is rather small IMO.

Continuing to ALRs. For a large enough screen, throw ratios are going to be 1.35x or lower. This is below the recommended throw of most ALR screens, but some users are fine with it.

Even with a W2700 which has about the shortest throw except for some non lamp models with poor contrast/black level, the highest diagonal screen is ~120". At minimum throw, 1.13x, I would not recommend to use an ALR screen.

The UHD52ALV is non RGBRGB color wheel model which has worse color and contrast than the W2700. The W2700 can handle an 120" screen.
Maybe the UHD51, which is inferior to the W2700 in terms of PQ.
But both Optomas have a minimum throw of 1.21x, which means a screen no larger than 112".
The UHD52ALV also has 60-80ms lag.
The UHD52ALV is a sports/ambient light projector, I don't know why you would recommend it.

Problem with paint mix for me was:
1. Complexity
2. Cost
3. Locating the right amount of paints in this country
4. Having to find something to paint on - so if you want to paint on an electronic screen, you need a HPLV gun, similarly with a wall, if you mess it up, you have to do-over (albiet if I was projecting onto a wall, I think paint is great).
5. Mild skill level required
6. Import costs of Black Flame and other proprietary blends being very high.

BTW, I am a fan of paint mixes but everyone I spoke to ended up quoting me a long list of paints which ended up racking up a fairly decent ammount of ££££ for what was meant to be a cheaper DIY alternative. Whilst if you shop on the classifields carefully, second hand drapers do turn up.
 

noob0101

Active Member
Problem with paint mix for me was:
1. Complexity
2. Cost
3. Locating the right amount of paints in this country
4. Having to find something to paint on - so if you want to paint on an electronic screen, you need a HPLV gun, similarly with a wall, if you mess it up, you have to do-over (albiet if I was projecting onto a wall, I think paint is great).
5. Mild skill level required
6. Import costs of Black Flame and other proprietary blends being very high.

BTW, I am a fan of paint mixes but everyone I spoke to ended up quoting me a long list of paints which ended up racking up a fairly decent ammount of ££££ for what was meant to be a cheaper DIY alternative. Whilst if you shop on the classifields carefully, second hand drapers do turn up.

Listen I don't want to be antagonistic but you're giving bad advice.

I don't know what kind of researched you did, but none of that is correct.

It's not complex.
All the paints can be purchased via Amazon.
The cost of the paint ingredients and the paint gun is ~$100 or less. I know because I'm planning to use a paint mix.
There are multiple surfaces that can be tested. Like paper, smooth white surfaces, plastic, and others. This is what was recommended to me by the experts.

I already mentioned that with the kind of throw ratios OP will be using an ALR screen like Draper React there will be too noticeable artifacts (hotspot, etc). You don't know if OP is ok with that.

But what really upset me is that you give a hint to check out the classifieds, where YOU are selling a Draper React3 screen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you're giving wrong information and advertising a screen that you want to sell.
Which if OP had purchased would have had problems with.

If you're going to advertise, at least do it directly.


Not that complicated to paint:

 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Listen I don't want to be antagonistic but you're giving bad advice.

I don't know what kind of researched you did, but none of that is correct.

It's not complex.
All the paints can be purchased via Amazon.
The cost of the paint ingredients and the paint gun is ~$100 or less. I know because I'm planning to use a paint mix.
There are multiple surfaces that can be tested. Like paper, smooth white surfaces, plastic, and others. This is what was recommended to me by the experts.

I already mentioned that with the kind of throw ratios OP will be using an ALR screen like Draper React there will be too noticeable artifacts (hotspot, etc). You don't know if OP is ok with that.

But what really upset me is that you give a hint to check out the classifieds, where YOU are selling a Draper React3 screen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you're giving wrong information and advertising a screen that you want to sell.
Which if OP had purchased would have had problems with.

If you're going to advertise, at least do it directly.


Not that complicated to paint:



Lets get the most insulting point out of the way first: I'm actually not selling the Draper screen anymore noob0101 as evidenced by the updated advert post in the thread as its staying where it is due to family wishes so I'm not really looking to gain much from stating you can sometimes find as draper (the common ALR brand in the UK) on the classifieds.

And even if it was to come up for sale, I already have multiple interested parties in hand and one expressed concrete offer on the thread.
 
Last edited:

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Now back on topic...

Please quote me a list of paints to buy and a HVLP gun from UK stores with UK shop links for less than 100 dollars (76 pounds). I ask this because if you check my post history, I attempted this a couple of months ago, spoke to Mr Missisippiman and it ended up being very costly given if I wanted to put it on a tab tensioned electric screen which was costing £££ too. I also deliberated about buying his Blame Flame mix but once taking into account customs costs and the risk of getting it wrong, had to abandon ship.

Also factor in the logistics, not everyone can empty their lounge and start spraying paint everywhere with a gun.

Heck I made more than a couple of threads about projector paint, how much I liked it in theory and had a fiery debate with ideal alan AV about it.. etc. etc.

Maybe my research wasn't as good and if you could enlighten the entire forum with some true and tested UK based formulae for 76 pounds including a paint gun go for it, and please afterwards can the mods sticky the thread as it will be invaluable!

I'm genuinely interested in the links you provide as I'm in the process of buying a new house and would love to go down the paint mix route but sadly, there were few UK options.

The US-equivalent UK-based options for paints in the DIY mixes described were very difficult to track down (e.g. folkart gun metal grey was sold out everywhere in the EU).
 

noob0101

Active Member
Lets get the most insulting point out of the way first: I'm actually not selling the Draper screen anymore noob0101 as evidenced by the updated advert post in the thread as its staying where it is due to family wishes so I'm not really looking to gain much from stating you can sometimes find as draper (the common ALR brand in the UK) on the classifieds.

And even if it was to come up for sale, I already have multiple interested parties in hand and one expressed concrete offer on the thread.

The post was edited at 16:13 (UK) and my comment was posted at 15:18 UK time.

All paint components can be found on Amazon US. My calculations were with taxes to the EU.

Tacklife Paint Sprayer, SGP15AC Electric Paint Spray Gun, 3 Spraying Patts, 900 ml Paint Container, Easy-used for Painting Projectserns with 4 Nozzle

On Amazon UK.
Until recently this model and others was just above 30 pounds. I haven't done research recently but I'm not going to search for one right now.

Not going to change this thread to you doing reasearch for paints or paint guns.

In any case a painted screen is cheaper than an ALR screen.

But as I've said before, all the info you gave was wrong with the exception of the TW9400 and was trying to hawk your screen.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
The post was edited at 16:13 (UK) and my comment was posted at 15:18 UK time.

All paint components can be found on Amazon US. My calculations were with taxes to the EU.

Tacklife Paint Sprayer, SGP15AC Electric Paint Spray Gun, 3 Spraying Patts, 900 ml Paint Container, Easy-used for Painting Projectserns with 4 Nozzle

On Amazon UK.
Until recently this model and others was just above 30 pounds. I haven't done research recently but I'm not going to search for one right now.

Not going to change this thread to you doing reasearch for paints or paint guns.

In any case a painted screen is cheaper than an ALR screen.

But as I've said before, all the info you gave was wrong with the exception of the TW9400 and was trying to hawk your screen.


The screen is off the market so you don't have to worry :) (although as I said, there was already an expressed buyer on the thread so no urgent need for hawking). The fact I took it off the market is telling that I couldn't care too much about 'hawking' it.

Once again, please show links to UK-based paints and a UK based paint gun for a total of £76 using UK-based links.

Even a proven and tested paint formula for paints which we can get in the UK would provide some more meat to your paint suggestion.

Again, I'm genuinely interested so I can do it at my next house.
 

noob0101

Active Member
I cannot recommend a Celerox screen because I don't trust tegonik. This post or the entire thread:

There are many ALR screens which are not known, so you're taking a gamble.

While an ALR screen with a wide viewing angle might work at 1.35x throw ratio, I have serious reservations at 1.13x.

The Radiance has a half gain of 35 degrees, which is more likely to produce a hotspot.

A paint mix is much better than any of the ALR screens mentioned here. I don't know if any ALR screen exists that will not cause issues at 1.13x. Maybe one with weak ambient light properties.

It's up to OP to decide what kind of setup he will go with.
 

sokoma

Novice Member
Hello everyone, thank you so much for all your very helpful answers!

Unfortunately, the room will not be cinema only and hence I don't think that I would be able to paint or install a fixed frame.

From what I read, the solution seems to be the TW9400 with an ALR screen. The issue of going with this TW9400 will be the size of the output which won't be more than 90-95''

Do you recommend any specific ALR screen? Does it exist in manual pull-up rather than electric (or at least battery charged)?

Thanks!
 

tegonik

Active Member
Hello everyone, thank you so much for all your very helpful answers!

Unfortunately, the room will not be cinema only and hence I don't think that I would be able to paint or install a fixed frame.

From what I read, the solution seems to be the TW9400 with an ALR screen. The issue of going with this TW9400 will be the size of the output which won't be more than 90-95''

Do you recommend any specific ALR screen? Does it exist in manual pull-up rather than electric (or at least battery charged)?

Thanks!

ΤW9400 + ALR screen is a killer combination, best choice. Unfortunately ALR fiber is very thin so it can product only as a frame and motorized tensioned screen.
For sure i suggest ALR with negative gain (in order to have the lower possible hot spot effect). So you have to look for a 0.8 gain ALR (you can go up to gain 1 if you like a specific screen with this gain so much, not a big problem, no way more than 1.0 gain, just remember that) .

Best choices for me are

Celexon Dynamic ALR screen (best value for money for me)

Screenline Radiance 0.8 (one of the best quality screens brand for me)

Elite DayWalker DW3 (never test it, but elite is always a stable good value)
 

sokoma

Novice Member
Quick question, the electric screen usually can be linked to a projector with a cable. Are the cables for each screen the same or should I only take the one that is paired with the screen?
 

tegonik

Active Member
Quick question, the electric screen usually can be linked to a projector with a cable. Are the cables for each screen the same or should I only take the one that is paired with the screen?

You mean the trigger cable. The cables are the same on most of the screens. But is so simple (just +- 12V) so you can make it easy by yourself if needed.
 

sokoma

Novice Member
You mean the trigger cable. The cables are the same on most of the screens. But is so simple (just +- 12V) so you can make it easy by yourself if needed.

Is it the trigger cable that power the electric motor or do you need to plug the screen to an actual plug?
Thanks!
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
Is it the trigger cable that power the electric motor or do you need to plug the screen to an actual plug?
Thanks!

Think of it like an amp in a car audio system, the amp still has power going to it from the car battery but its only turns on by the trigger wire coming from your head unit. ;)
 

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