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Projector purchase advice up tp £2k

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by inzaman, Aug 19, 2003.

  1. inzaman

    inzaman
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    Having deliberated over getting a projector over the past few months, and having got the girlfriends approval :smoke: , i have decided to jump over the fence and go the front projection route :) . I had chosen to get the Epson TW100 from pricejapan and have been saving over the past few months but i have just gone to the pricejapan site and they no longer supply them :suicide: . So i now need a change of plan do i;

    1) Go for a cheaper projector then upgrade in a few years, with this being my first pj i would possibly be happy with just having a pj.
    2) Do i spend a bit more and go for the Yamaha LPX500 which is an Epson clone and having seen the screen shots on this forum looks amazing.
    3) Do i wait a few months to see what newer models are coming out.

    Decisions, decisions and i thought it would be easy once i had the funds. I have made a 16:9 screen so really want a 16:9 pj as it will be purely for dvd. The screen width is 76inch and i can place the projector between 8-10ft away but cannot be ceiling mounted as i have really tall ceilings and the pj would possibley look unsightly hanging from a high ceiling (well so my girlfriend has told me).

    Thanks Stephen
     
  2. Kramer

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    HT1000 here. Little over budget @ £1999+ vat, but having spent some time with this PJ I can unreservedly recommend it.

    It's a 4:3 panel PJ, but has plenty of options for 16:9 - panel blanking etc...

    Stonking PQ - contrast ratio is awesome - leaves ALL LCDs in the shade.

    It's got a massive offset too & the 16/9 "viewable" portion can be moved within the panel. Result? You could probably mount this PJ on a 10' ceiling & still not need keystone correction :eek:

    BTW, I'm a happy HS10 owner so not really biased in favour of the NEC.

    Full review (with some screenshots) to follow later.

    It's an absolute steal at that price.....

    :smoke:
     
  3. Mirablo

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    "Stonking PQ - contrast ratio is awesome - leaves ALL LCDs in the shade."

    thats quite a recomendation
     
  4. inzaman

    inzaman
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    That is a great recommendation and a pj that i have been deliberating about over the past week or so since i first saw Kramers thread re nexnix. I did read up on this pj on projector central and the only thing i was concerned about was the pixels per 16:9 as the NEC gives 1024x576 but the epson/yamaha will give 1280x720 i.e over 50% more, or am i being concerned over nothing as they are different technologies and i suppose its your eyes that should do the testing not a simple arithmatic, yet i cannot find a place in the local area that demos them.
    Also am i correct in thinking that the newer 16:9 dlp chips just turn off the non used part so in essence they are still 4:3 if so then the NEC is starting to look a no brainer, although it is over budget but i have not stayed on budget yet when it comes to home cinema
     
  5. simonfinch

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    Kramer, I have been following your threads with some interest as i am about to purchase a HS10.

    After seeing the HS10 in action i was bowled over by the picture.

    I value your input and therefore wish to know the following...

    1. Does the HT1000 suffer from Digital artifacts (Rainbows)
    2. In your opnion is it a better buy than the HS10?
    3. Come on with those screenshots !!! :)

    Many Thanks, Simon
     
  6. vexorg

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    Just to add my thoughts ...:)

    I saw the HT1000 in Kramers abode the day after he got it, we watched a mix of material, some LOTR, 5th element, Blade II, some of the BMW films Hi Definition material and a mix of other dvds and hi-def clips.

    I have to saw I was very impressed, althogh the image was not as smooth as the image from the HS10, the 16:9 image only used 1024 * 576 pixels while the HS10 is using 1366*768, so some pixel stepping was evident at times if you went looking for it.

    What I was most impressed with was the black levels. Of all the tweaks that people do to their projectors, lowering the light output , using ND, FLD or CC filters, all in the hope of improving those BLACK levels would appear to be the digital pj nirvana. I have seen Kramers HS10, with CC40r and AVIA'd and well the HT1000 is way ahead in black levels, its gray bars are the closest I have seen to black and a lot darker than many a TV screen I have watched (poor calibrated TV's I might add...).

    Its a difficult choice to make between the HS10 and HT1000, both have their strong points, hi res panels and reasonable blacks on the HS10 and lets face it, low res panels and super black levels on the HT1000.

    I saw very few rainbows while watching the HT1000, its was more of a case of ... was that a rainbow? it was very quiet, I didnt hear the the high pitched whine of the colour wheel and I did not really notice the lower res panel probably because I was not spoilt by owning a HS10.

    Now considering I was sitting beside the hyper critical Kramer who was pointing out these things and I found I was not sure what he was refering to at times, suggests to me that this projector would keep me going for a year or 2.

    I will have to give Kramer a call to see if he has finished his review and if its not sitting in a couriers warehouse in Limerick, might just have to acquire it.

    Add an anamorphic lens and you get a 33% increase in resolution for eur600 the about stg400 of your pounds, less light spill and and increase in brightness.... now thats just being silly!

    I think I have been as impressed with seeing this projector as when I first saw Kramers tweaked HS10 and for me the considerably better blacks edges the HT1000 out in front.

    Vex
     
  7. Gary Lightfoot

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    Widescreen PAL is 1024 x 576, so the NEC maps it perfectly to it's panel. Any extra pixels in a display will not add any detail, just reduce screendoor. If you use htpc you may get interpolated detail and possibly a smoother image though.

    Gary.
     
  8. simonfinch

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    Thanks Vexorg,

    I think I will have to view the Ht1000 & HS10 together.

    Netnix is a long way from Lancashire Though.....
    But £2300 is also a lot of money......

    Thanks for your input,
    Simon.
     
  9. Clint C

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    Is no one concerned about the HT1000's lamp life? Surely that's going to prove costly in the long run? 1500 hours seems low by today's pj standards. I realise you can run in eco mode to increase lamp life to 2000 hours but wont this impair picture quality?
     
  10. Messiah

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    Depends on your environment. If you have full blackout conditions then eco mode is arguably the best way to run it. better blacks and quieter with sufficient brightness to give that truly cinematic quality.

    For me lamp life even at 1500 hours would not be a bother. I would rather replace a lamp a little more often and have improved image quality than be worried about replacing it a few months early.

    I guess it's a bit like paying for premium seating at the cinema rather than standard or paying more to go to a better cinema. Or even paying a few hundred or thousand more for a better pj to have the improved quality and satisfaction. Everyone to their own.

    Just my views.
     
  11. inzaman

    inzaman
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    Thanks for your input guys, i think that the HT1000 is the pj on top of my list at the moment even though it is slightly over budget, they only real issue i have at the moment is it being 4:3 and whether the light overspill on the wall would effect my viewing and although i would quite happily darken the wall behind the screen the girlfriend would kill me.
    Messiah you have owned an LPX500 how did this compare for you as a pj and have you seen a HT1000 so as to give a good comparison. I am off over the next week or so and will try and arrange some demos, easier said than done though.
    Kramer how ar eyou coming on with your review.
    Thanks again
     
  12. Messiah

    Messiah
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    Yes, owned many and seen many.

    Owned: TW100, LPX500, 701s CRT, MT8, Z10k
    Seen: Ae100, AE300, HT1000, HS10, VP12S2 etc

    In my opinion the HT1000 blew away all the LCds including the LPX500 for picture quality and fan noise. Like you, the 4:3 oanel was what put me off the HT1000. Not for light spill (cos there's hardly anything and certainly not enough to worry about) but resolution for Hi-Def material from a HTPC. If you main watching will be DVDs then I assure you you will not be disappointed with the HT1000 and recommend you order one ASAP.

    Don't forget that 4:3 panel will also make it great for off-air watchig so long as your screen can suit. But also don't get me wrong, the LPX500 is a mighty fine pj and if it weren't for the vertical banding I was seeing (most likely caused by some external interference in my set up) there is no way I would have changed it. I loved everything about that pj. Pic quality was also to die for just not quite as smooth as the DLPs but brighter and no rainbows or temporal dithering.

    Good luck and enjoy whatever you end up getting.
     
  13. ChrisNightingal

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    Hi there Stephen,

    Thought I would throw in my penny's worth of experience. I have a Panasonic AE300 which I purchased from nexnix.co.uk (careful with that URL!!!) for around 1600. Like you I have never had a projector so I was also unsure. But after reading reviews and this forum decided on the AE300.

    Another consideration for this pj was the short throw distance which I noticed you might need as well due to only being 8-10 feet away from the screen.

    I did a webpage on my installation if you want to have a look. Although my pj is ceiling mounted.

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chris.nightingale1/ftvtp/ftvtpmainpage.htm
     
  14. uczmeg

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    As the buyer of said LPX off of Neil I can assure you that vertical banding must have been something to do with his setup.

    I'm pleased to say I see no such problems through normal DVD and my early experiments with HCPC.

    It is quite amazing, and the screenshots you have seen in this forum do do it justice!

    Cheers
    Marc
     
  15. inzaman

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    Thanks again guys for all your input, i am going to try and arange some demos over the next week or so then make a decision but this thread has been very helpful, just shows that this site is priceless.
    Chris excellent website just makes me want a pj all the more :D I might now have to put the AE300 into the mix as well. Messiah you are correct about the light spill from the 4:3 screen i have done the calcualtions and on a 78inch wide screen and it equates to about 7inch either side.
     
  16. Messiah

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    inzaman

    It's not just the physical depth of the spill but also that the HT1000 throws out such black blacks and the pixels are then shut off that the actual light shown in that area is really not an issue.

    Happy demo'ing :) That's half the fun of this hobby.
     
  17. Kramer

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    Without doubt, the best thing one can do - demo :)


    TBH, the AE300 isn't even near to being in the same league as the HT1000 etc...

    It's not a bad PJ but in fairness, it retails at less than half the (recommended) price of a HT1000 - couldn't be expected to compete TBH.

    Uploading some pics as I type (big buggers too!) - review should be up later.



    :smoke:
     
  18. simonfinch

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    Kramer would you (given the money again !?) get a HS10 or a Ht 1000?:rolleyes:
     
  19. simonfinch

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    :clap: :D :D

    Well, Last Thursday i took the day off work and drove the 512 miles round trip to Nexnix to view both the HS10 & the HT1000.

    The resoulution of the HS10 was better than than the HT1000. This is to be expected.
    I feel that properly set-up, a HS10 has a very smooth detailed image, with more detail than a HT1000
    "Toy Story" for example looked better on the HS10 than the HT1000 (excepting the difference in black levels)

    However what sold me the HT1000, was the film like quality of the image.
    Playing "Fast and the furious" (not my favourite of films..) the colours of the cars on the HT1000 blew me away.
    Having seen a properly setup CRT this gave me 85-90% of the CRT image without the hassle of using scalers, converging the image and taking up weight lifting !.

    I bought the HT1000.

    I am glad I auditioned a few projectors before deciding.

    Now a very happy man..:D

    simon.

    PS Once again Nexnix come highly recommended. The people are nice, The service was great. And I felt I got very good value for money. :smashin:
     
  20. Gary Lightfoot

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    Welcome to the club. :)

    Don't forget that widescreen PAL is only 1024 x 576, so although the HS10 has got more pixels, it can't actualy show any more detail from a DVD because it isn't there. You did seem to see more detail in Toy Story though, but I'm wondering what it really was that made it seem that way.

    Just curious becasue I've not seen the HS10 myself, though many say how good they are.

    Cheers

    Gary.
     
  21. Kramer

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    Theoretically speaking, yes, but in practice the HS10 does show a more detailed picture.

    I guess the main reason is the size of the HS10's pixels. They're tiny - about the size of the head of a match ("bare" end) on a 110" diagonal screen. The "fill" factor is exemplary too - practically no gaps between the pixels.

    Nothing (as yet) can touch the HS10 in terms of resolution, not even 1280x720 HD2 DLPs :eek:
     
  22. Messiah

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    Maybe not but the increased fill factor of the HD2 DLPs MORE than makes up for it. I guess I would say that as I have a HD2 unit :eek: but believe me the image is better. Smoother and more film like.

    Kramer - dream about the HT1000 with the (near) resolution of the HS10 and increased fill factor. Oo err!!! Z12k here I come :)
     
  23. Gary Lightfoot

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    Kramer, the HS10s pixels may be smaller, but they'll be sharing one DVD pixel between them i.e 4 HS10 pixels = 1 DVD pixel, so the extra resolution isn't realised.

    Gary.
     
  24. inzaman

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    right, so on a 16:9 image i understand that the HT1000 will utilise the full pal resolution of 1024x576 with dvd, but would the sony use all of its 1366x768 resolution on the same dvd and therefore use more pixels or would it also only use 1024x576. Sorry if the question is a bit basic :blush: but i am still getting to grips with this pj technology
     
  25. Messiah

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    The HS10 will use all the pixels (as indeed will any pj) but it will distribute the image across multiple pixels. i.e. 1 DVD pixel = 1.33 Panel pixels (although it won't actually use part pixels so will distribute them across the image ), so they will be smaller but dependent upon the scaler could make the image look worse due to poor scaling (I am not referring to the HS10 here just general)
     
  26. Kramer

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    Considerably smaller:eek:

    As I said, in theory (& in fact) you are correct, but in practice the higher resolution does "appear" to give a more detailed picture. Obviously it can't show more detail than it's receiving but.............well, that's it. It just looks better (if a little greyer) :)
     
  27. Gary Lightfoot

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    OK - I know what you're saying, but kinda hard to explain. :)

    I have seen a HD2 pj, but can't say that I noticed a lot of difference with the higher resolution now that I think back. Nice picture though. :)

    Gary.
     
  28. inzaman

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    Guys, thanks a lot for your input on this i demo'd the HT1000 and an infocus dlp and i didnt see any rainbows, well except for white writing on a dark back ground but i did get a pain in the back of my eyes after about 5-10 minutes of both viewings that didnt go away :( . I guess i must be suceptable to eye fatigue from dlp pjs. Now with a bit more knowledge, and it is only a bit i am now going for a lcd especially with the new higher resolution and contrast of the new batch of pjs that are coming out as this also gives me the opportunity to delve in hcpc. As i have a serious itch in my wallet and the dark nights drawing in i may be an early adoptor of the AE500 from pricejapan, so watch this space. Thanks again :smashin:
     
  29. Gary Lightfoot

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    Looking forward to hearing from you when you have pj in hand (or on ceiling, whatever). :)

    Gary.
     

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