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Projector prices coming down?, Epson releases the cheapest projector ever!?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by jrwood, Sep 15, 2002.

  1. jrwood

    jrwood
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    Epson ELP-30
    0.5 inch TFT active matrix liquid crystal panels 3
    The number of pixels: 480,000 pixels (800 X 600 dots) X 3
    Brightness: 800 ANSI lumina
    Contrast ratio: 400: 1
    Lamp: 130W UHE
    External size: 309 (W) ×219 (D) ×93 (H) mm
    Weight: 2.9kg
    Input: Component (RGB combined use), S, composite, D4 input.
    Comes with filter like the new Sony projectors (to improve blacks)

    RRP Price: 198,000 Yen (Sept 6th 2002 release) £794.371 GBP

    Probably the first projector <£1000 and judging from Epson's Japanese site I quote 'Sale goal has planned 3 ten thousand units in 1 years' (i.e 30,000 units!).

    Panasonics new budget projectors..

    Panasonic TH-AE200
    0.7 inch TFT active matrix liquid crystal panels 3
    The number of pixels: 415,272 pixels (858 X 484 dots) X 3
    Brightness: 700 ANSI lumina
    Contrast ratio: 700:1
    Lamp: 120W UHM
    External size: 280 (W) ×269 (D) ×80 (H) mm
    Weight: 2.9kg
    Price: 240,000 Yen (October 1st of 2002 sale) £1,270.99 GBP

    I wonder if the Panasonic AE-100 is going to be aggressively priced now against Epson's new projector?. The Panasonic AE-200 and AE-300 come out very soon. Although if you look at the AE-200 it looks very similar to the AE100 specification except much better contrast but the same price point@release.


    Panasonic TH-AE300
    0.7 inch TFT active matrix liquid crystal panels 3
    The number of pixels: 518,400 pixels (960 X 540 dots) X 3
    Brightness: 800 ANSI lumens
    Contrast ratio: 800: 1
    Lamp: 120W UHM
    External size: 280 (W) ×269 (D) ×80 (H) mm
    Weight: 2.9kg
    Price: 320,000 Yen (Oct 15th 2002 release) £1,694.66

    It will be interesting to see the price of the AE-300 compared to the Sony VPL-HS10 as the Sony should retail for 350,000 which is close to the AE-300 price in Japan.

    I think the projector market is gearing up for a price battle myself!, I think they realise there is a mass market to sell home cinema projectors to your average consumer aswell as the home cinema enthusiast!.

    /James
     
  2. buns

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    Wow....... prices really are coming down!

    The ability to sell projectors to the masses is definitely there. There have been 2 big constraints, price, and the space they take up. At less than £1000, joe public will be spending the same amount as he would on a tv. With the size of the more recent units, the projector can be set aside and will hardly be noticed. The right salesman would have a field day selling a panny at £800! They are having enough sales at its current price!

    If only the bulbs lasted longer and cost less! If a bulb cost only £50, i would use the projector for normal tv viewing. Once projector manufacturers get people using their machines at that frequency, hey are sorted!

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  3. gwbailey

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    James,

    Have you any idea how much the 12ht is going to cost in the UK?
     
  4. lenny100

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    Have anyone any idea when the mentioned PJs will be avilable i EU?
    Have seen the Jap release date, but I cant find info on Eu dates.
     
  5. jrwood

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    If only this was a Sony MartinCo will be waving his panasonic around arguing about the price ;)

    gwbailey the 12HT is out in the UK now :confused:

    lenny100: usually projectors reach europe a few months after they launch in Japan from what I have seen generally, although it does depend on several factors.
     
  6. Chris Frost

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    Sharp had products under £1000 four years ago. The difference is that the specification has improved.:)

    It's great that prices are falling, but as regards a sales boom "if only the price was £X", I think this only makes a real difference to those who understand and are interested in the benefits of the technology.

    Regards
     
  7. buns

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    Should the manufacturers not be pushing the products into the public eye? I bet most people would assume a quality projector to cost thousands when this is no longer the truth. How come we never see panasonic projector ads? or sony or anyone like that

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  8. jrwood

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    This is a good point, in Japan something like this could easily catch on as being another relatively cheap gadget to have in the home. In the UK many people are not aware of projector technology for the home. I cannot think of many retailers who could show a system to half its potential to attract such as mass audience. Most retailers struggle to make RPTV's look half way decent. 30,000 sales target is quite a large target audience to achieve in under a year.

    Maybe this projector is geared towards the Japanese market?
     
  9. buns

    buns
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    At that price, it is the same range as 19 inch lcd displays..... you could have a lovely 3 foot display for pc use with a projector like this without breaking the bank.

    I would agree about the failings of retailers. I am not very good at calibraing my system, but it is still much better than anything you see on the high street. Shame really

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  10. MartinCo

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    interesting, jrwood. a little bit childish and not what the forums is meant to be about.
    debate and accurate criticism - yes. cheap shots not so becoming.

    enough.

    anyway.. you make a factual error in the above statement.
    I don't wave my projector around, that would be silly.
    the panasonics are probably unreliable enough already without throwing them around.:D:D

    cheap projectors are good for us (the public) as long as there is still a dealer to demo them at, with decent after-sales support and still make a profit.

    I dont particularly want to end up at Currys or Dixon trying to explain progressive scan or some other complicated feature on a projector to a spotty part-time sales assistant. god.. now that is a scary thought!

    IMHO, that is the logical result of a nasty price war after all.

    really cheap is not always good.
     
  11. jrwood

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    Oh come on MartinCo, if you do not like banter then please do not start the silly banter in the first place. Cheap shots were fired when you decided to make up a price and argue in the other thread. Seriously please do not read everything everyone writes on this forum, most posts are postive about new projectors and the technology out there, and some people just want to post negative remarks without actually reading the thread clearly in the first place.

    Its funny how you like to refer waving your projector around as a factual error on my part, when in the other thread you were quite happy to factually make up incorrect prices for the HS2 projector ;).

    I personally think Richer Sounds could move quite a few of these projectors, although Im beginning to think this projector is for the Japanese market only.

    Tongue firmly in cheek :D
     
  12. buns

    buns
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    The thought of trusting richersounds with a projector puchase makes me shiver!
     
  13. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    MartinCo & jrwood - steady boys, steady.

    Back to the thread - there have been some good points raised about the quality of retailers.

    Regards
     
  14. MartinCo

    MartinCo
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    jrwood, humour and irony are obviously lost on you even with your tongue severely in cheek.
    the "factual error" statement above was of course a joke and an attempt to clear the air.

    I already held my hands up and pointed out my mistake on the other thread. the rumoured hs-2 and hs-10 do look very similar apart from the black/grey front panel, and in combination with the lack of model info in the sony pdf catalog.

    I bow to your clearly superior knowledge of cheap japanese projectors, and your use of smilies.:) :)

    enough already!:(

    [EDIT] fair point Chris... just about to goto a funeral so not in the best of moods. apologies guys.

    still though, the thought of Richer Sounds or god forbid, Currys, Comet and Dixons selling you your next projector.:eek:

    very scary.

    the idea of someone like Tescos selling a sub £1k projector like the Epson is a fairly chilling one.
     
  15. Bert Coules

    Bert Coules
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    The idea of someone like Tescos selling a sub £1k projector like the Epson is a fairly chilling one.

    Why is it? If the unit was reliable, why shouldn't a supermarket sell it? Although it might be difficult for a/v afficiandos to accept, not everyone is a critical viewer or listener, not everyone is interesting in spending time and money on tweaking performance, and not everyone cares about the so-called crucial difference between composite and component.

    Why shouldn't the woman-in-the-street consumer be able to pick up a projector with the ease and convenience of buying a bunch of bananas?

    Bert
    www.bertcoules.co.uk
     
  16. jasonb

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    Don't you remember a few years ago when getting hold of dvds was both hard and expensive. But due to the aggresive marketing of companies like toshiba ect... hardware prices came down and technology was available to the masses driving the price of disks down. Look at the knock on effect that has had to other related such as w/s tv's and how much the price has come down on those!!!!!

    All I'm saying is that while most of this is good for the general consumer it all has to start somewhere and I would presume that most of us here have pioneered new technology to allow mass consumption. I see your point of view with shoddy sales assistants in most high street stores giving poor and misguided advice. Want I don't want to do is become too elitest. There is a fine line, but who wouldn't complain if projectors came down in price and better quality. Hmmm.... A projector in every room now that's a fine prospect........?



    Do or do not. There is no try.......
     
  17. lynx

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    Indeed.Lets keep it sensible guys.
     
  18. nunew33

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    If you know your stuff then the place of sale is irrelevent. I have had many bargains from "last place on earth" shops. I bought a PC from PC world that a year on is still a bargain. I bought a micro-fi from Currys that undercuts what hyperfi sells them at. I got a deal on a cooker from Comet that beat empire direct. Uninformed saturday staff they may have, but if you know your stuff then Dixons, comet etc are as good a place as any.

    Itll be a good thing when you can get projectors from those stores.Like people are saying the more outlets, the bigger the market, the more competition.

    Most tellies are sold through these outlets and most people dont know how to get the best picture from them. So having an 8foot screen with an imperfect picture isnt going to bother the average consumer. They will be happy because the image is 8 foot regardless of colour staining, dead pixels and such.
     
  19. Chris Frost

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    On that basis, would you suggest that all projector manufacturers stop selling through dealers and start selling direct via mail order or the net? Is the chance to save £50 compared to the cheapest internet price more appealing than being able to see the product in the flesh?

    Interested in your feedback.

    Regards
     
  20. michaelab

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    Responding to the original post, the contrast ratios quoted for the 2 Panasonic PJs look wrong to me. I'd be surprised if they can achieve 700:1 and 800:1 - another thing that makes me suspicious is that the contrast ratios match the lumens figure in both of these - a typo maybe?

    And while we're on the subject, I've mentioned it in other threads but there's a new 16:9 Philips PJ coming out - the 'Garbo'. See here for details:

    http://www.beamer.at/pdf/philips/Garbo_borchure_updEP.pdf

    It's already available on pre-order in several German online retailers for around €2600 which is about £1600 so it will be competing directly with the new Pannys. Chris, I'm surprised you didn't chip in about the Garbo :)

    I was on the brink of ordering a Monroe - now I'm going to wait and see what the next month has in store but the Garbo is looking very attractive to me right now.

    Michael.
     
  21. JohnS

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    Chris
    I think it is definatly an option to consider for products in the lower end of the market, however there still needs to be some form where the interested buyer might veiw, look at, touch a potential purchase, if not at dealers, what about shows. I understand that shows do not give much of a chance for critical veiwing but I think that you can make a reasonable judgement of whether or not a product falls into the range of what you expect or require. Maybe the manufactures could preadvertise that a certain product is going to be on show and possible have facilities to sell it as well.
     
  22. Chris Frost

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    Shows are good as PR, to launch new products or to place an advanced order; but as a selling method they aren't ideal. If I were buying a projector I wouldn't want to wait months until the next show in my area.

    Personally, I think dealers still have an important role to play.
    How would a UK roadshow event at a various dealer showrooms be received?


    Regards
     
  23. nunew33

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    No dealers have their place and in my view offer value for the extra.

    I simply believe in choice. I know Im tarring with abrush but I would suggets that the average consumerisnt interested in PAL progressive, componant connections, perfect image resolution etc. They will be more interested in an 8 foot image for their TV and PS2 for the price of a good 32 inch wide screen. Dealers are for those who want to eke out the best in quality.

    To suggest that currys RS and dixons arent good ways to distribute projectors is limiting peoples choice.

    I am fussy and am likely to source a projector from a local dealer. But If I wasnt fussy then Id like to think I could walk into a high street retailer and buy one off the shelf.
     
  24. JohnS

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    I dont diagree but how would a dealer feel about a roadshow and then the people that attended going off and buying from the internet. The reason I mentioned shows is that generally it is the responsibility of the manufacturor or distributor and not the people that actuall sell the item.

    What I wont do is waste lots of the dealers time and then buy a product from somewhere else, however trying to acheive a balance of cost for dealer facilities has been debated many times.:(
     
  25. Chris Frost

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    John,
    How much do you think it costs to lay on a show? Say, something like Live and then something like the Manchester HiFi exhibition.

    Regards
     
  26. michaelab

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    With stuff like this I nearly always check it out at a dealer first (sometimes several so I can compare different products) and then if the dealer will match an online retailer price I'll buy it from them - otherwise I go and buy it online.

    People might think it's not fair on the dealers but I see it this way: on something like a projector I can be making a £3-500 saving (or more) by buying online. No dealer is going to give me £500 worth of 'added value' and I wouldn't pay £500 to see a few product demos.

    Michael.
     
  27. JohnS

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    I have no idea! Many many thousands I should imagine. Judging by your comment, I take it that your opinion is that this is an expensive way to promote products. If that is the case is it not possible instead to channel the funds towards the existing bricks and mortar dealers in the way of discounts/extra margin to help support them compete with the box-shifters. Maybe the roadshow idea but with roadshow discount:cool:
     
  28. buns

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    I know this is a fraction of topic, but i think it is important. With manufacturers selling to dealers and direct, i feel there is a problem. Many peopl simply go to a dealer to check things out, then buy online. I think this is unfair. Personally i think an item like a projector is still a specialist piece of kit. I think they should be sold through competent dealers only who can give a good level of service, albeit at a small price.

    I know many will disagree with this, but i strongly believe it. My next machine will not be from the cheapest source, it will be from roland or gordon or somebody with their skills who can make my projector look £100 better, rather than save me £100.

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  29. nunew33

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    I agree but sometimes when you know exactly what you want and dont need a demo, why pay the premium?

    Eg Iknew waht speakers I wanted so got them from RS. Didnt know which amp, went to dealer, demoed them and got them from dealer. Its about freedom of choice!!!!
     
  30. buns

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    I guess it is impossible to say dealers only or net only, there needs to be a balance i suppose. Unfortunately that has to rely on the decency of the population, which isnt all that good at times!

    But getting away from this diversion, the introduction of lower priced quality technology is great. It will consequently bring down the price of higher end material and will, as a further consequence, bring new advances at the highest end.

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