Projector landscape post Epson and JVC laser announcements?

dantaito

Standard Member
I would love your feedback on the current pj landscape now that Epson and JVC have made their announcements.

I'm looking to upgrade from an Epson 6600 which I use in a 4m x 5m dark walled room watching mostly streamed services via a 4k Apple TV. I would like to move to 4k, HDR, especially deeper blacks.

I've been doing a ton of reading on here and below is what I can gather regarding contenders.

Epson 9400 - well established, lots of info and tips and tricks. Cheap bulbs. Blacks not great? Rather old now having been released in 2018. No DTM unless using a Lumagen.

New Epson laser - LS 12000 - untested but maybe not so much of a step up from the 9400? Just a laser, HDMI 2.1, 120hz.

Sony 290 - Native 4k, slick motion, good colour. Any negatives? What are the blacks like?

JVC N5 - DTM, inky blacks, fantastic colour, contrast. Rather old now having been released in 2018.

I know the JVC is the best but its also massively out of my budget so I'm just wondering whether its worth more than double the 9400 and a lot more cash than the Sony?

Is the LS-12000 the successor to the 9400? Do we think the 9400 will be replaced soon and its unwise to jump in now?

Thanks everyone for all your help here.
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
Epson 9400 - well established, lots of info and tips and tricks. Cheap bulbs. Blacks not great? Rather old now having been released in 2018. No DTM unless using a Lumagen.

New Epson laser - LS 12000 - untested but maybe not so much of a step up from the 9400? Just a laser, HDMI 2.1, 120hz.
actually older than that its basis goes back to the 9000 series released 10 years ago. the 9300 and 9400 added e-shift and HDR with p3 filter and later chips for hdmi

Sony 290 - Native 4k, slick motion, good colour. Any negatives? What are the blacks like?
this is basically a dinosaur ! updated... it is missing everything even the epson gets in p3 filter. lens memories, iris. lumens.. yep the sony 290 is pretty short on lumens. will need high lamp for HDR even on a 100" screen.

JVC N5 - DTM, inky blacks, fantastic colour, contrast. Rather old now having been released in 2018
its actually a fresh completely new design as off 2018... unlike the epson and 290es whcih are actually refreshes and updates of old machines... but you are paying for this n5 and it does come with dynamic tone mapping. native 4k and best contrast of the lot. p3 is also best of the lot with no filter i beleive. It also has the best looking picture of the lot i beleive...

if can check them out for self to decide ...
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
I would love your feedback on the current pj landscape now that Epson and JVC have made their announcements.

I'm looking to upgrade from an Epson 6600 which I use in a 4m x 5m dark walled room watching mostly streamed services via a 4k Apple TV. I would like to move to 4k, HDR, especially deeper blacks.

I've been doing a ton of reading on here and below is what I can gather regarding contenders.
I had the Epson 6100 and switched to a Sony HW45 before making the decision to switch again because of 4K.
Epson 9400 - well established, lots of info and tips and tricks. Cheap bulbs. Blacks not great? Rather old now having been released in 2018. No DTM unless using a Lumagen.
I bought the 9400 in Jan 2019 and frankly it has been amazing, get the screen material right as well as treating the room and you’d be amazed how good the blacks can look. If in doubt just look at the images in my movie image collection in my signature.
New Epson laser - LS 12000 - untested but maybe not so much of a step up from the 9400? Just a laser, HDMI 2.1, 120hz.
I would be surprised if it not a decent step up from the 9400 in every way, gut feeling is closer to the 290es in actual image quality but with way better tonal mapping, superior brightness and wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t have deeper looking blacks
JVC N5 - DTM, inky blacks, fantastic colour, contrast. Rather old now having been released in 2018.
It’s £2K more than the new Epson, best blacks at this price but until the LS12000 is tested it’s hard to know just how much better it will be over the Epson and if it will still be seen as the better option overall especially when price is taken into account.
I know the JVC is the best but its also massively out of my budget so I'm just wondering whether its worth more than double the 9400 and a lot more cash than the Sony?

Is the LS-12000 the successor to the 9400? Do we think the 9400 will be replaced soon and its unwise to jump in now?

Thanks everyone for all your help here.
As far as I am aware the 9400 is being retained but Epson are dropping the 9400w, probably the last of 3D in the LS12000 is a factor.
 

dantaito

Standard Member
I knew I could rely on you guys to give me more fascinating insights so thank you all.

It just feels frustrating that there is no obvious choice around the 2.5-4k price point that guarantees deep blacks and new technology. I just can't wait to read/the initial reviews of the new Epson lasers to see whether there maybe significant progress here.

I've also been reading about the premium price we pay for JVCs in the UK which is frustrating.

Am I correct in thinking that with the latest round of JVC lasers we won't see an updated N5 anytime soon or it just the NZ7?
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
I knew I could rely on you guys to give me more fascinating insights so thank you all.

It just feels frustrating that there is no obvious choice around the 2.5-4k price point that guarantees deep blacks and new technology. I just can't wait to read/the initial reviews of the new Epson lasers to see whether there maybe significant progress here.
I think we are all waiting reviews on these new Laser Epsons, I think Ricky will be the first to give his thoughts as he is getting the unit at the show to calibrate so expect his words of wisdom within a fortnight.
I've also been reading about the premium price we pay for JVCs in the UK which is frustrating.

Am I correct in thinking that with the latest round of JVC lasers we won't see an updated N5 anytime soon or it just the NZ7?
The NZ7 is basically the N5 with Laser and a few other bells and whistles.

The range naming has changed and confused a few because of it.

N5 is now the NZ7
N7 is now the NZ8
N9 is now the NZ9
 

Harold88

Member
this is basically a dinosaur ! updated... it is missing everything even the epson gets in p3 filter. lens memories, iris. lumens.. yep the sony 290 is pretty short on lumens. will need high lamp for HDR even on a 100" screen.

I know Sony lacks a lot of things but I don't think we should be that harsh to just throw it away from the start.

Maby for a small 100 inch screen, in a batcave, it can offer a nice , contrasty image, with decent blacks, better then Epson for sure.

The native contrast was measured by some reviewers to be around 13000:1-15000:1 which is definitely not JVC but still it's better than anything else, including Epson 9400 which can get to about 6000:1 calibrated with iris closed or 7000:1 in dynamic mode.

It's main problem as I can see, it's the lack of an iris (manual iris). This pisses me off a lot. Come on Sony, is that hart to just put an iris in there?

Also I don't know the prices where you live but here, almost every year after the new model launch, it is possible to find the 200' model for around 4000 euro. JVC seems to have fixed prices as not an inch is moving from those price lists...
 
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alebonau

Well-known Member
I know Sony lacks a lot of things but I don't think we should be that harsh to just throw it away from the start.

No dynamic tone mapping is a very big deal …it has a dynamic contrast which is not same. yes can do a good job in smaller screen dark cave setups but it comes up short big time vs jvc n5 and even on quite few think in lumens, p3 filter, iris not even manual let alone dynamic !

Contrast wise it’s in between Epson and jvc. Closer to jvc also in interpixel gap.

It's main problem as I can see, it's the lack of an iris (manual iris). This pisses me off a lot. Come on Sony, is that hart to just put an iris in there?


If want all things it’s missing you need the 590ES which is really the model that compares to jvc n5. Only thing lacking vs n5 is dynamic tone mapping and contrast is not in jvc league also jvc interpixel gap is better.

Also I don't know the prices where you live but here, almost every year after the new model launch, it is possible to find the 200' model for around 4000 euro. JVC seems to have fixed prices as not an inch is moving from those price lists...

Where we are the jvc n5 is a better deal. Jvc n7 is also better deal than 590es even …

N5 goes for 7.5k
290es goes for 9k
590es for 12k
N7 goes goes for 9.5k-10.5k
Epson 9400 goes for $4.2-5k

Sony is selling on brand name here …
 

CaroleBaskin

Well-known Member
I’d also be looking at motion. I really couldn’t stand the motion handling of the 9400; forum recommended I move to Sony or JVC for much better results. Went with a JVC and haven’t wanted for better panning.
 

Harold88

Member
N5 goes for 7.5k
290es goes for 9k
590es for 12k
N7 goes goes for 9.5k-10.5k
Epson 9400 goes for $4.2-5k

Sony is selling on brand name here …

Well, there we go, we have completely different price policy's , which of course alters our judgement in some way. So if I do some math to USA $

Here:
N5 6500 $
290 es 5550$
590 es 6500 $
N7 8400 $
Tw 9400 2300$ ( here Epson is very cheap)

For N5, N7 and tw 9400 the prices are the same from day one, they didn't moved.

Next year I expect both 290 and 590 to have at last 20% drop in price as the 270 es can be bought for around 4000$
 

alebonau

Well-known Member
Well, there we go, we have completely different price policy's , which of course alters our judgement in some way. So if I do some math to USA $
I am in au by the way :D AUSTRALIA aussie dollars :) but yes our jvc prices for NX series are pretty close infact a tad better than usd pricing :)

I dont think we will be that lucky come the NZ infarct all indications are 2x plus of usd conversions :D

re sony they actually went up with the 290/590 releases on what justification is anyones guess... there is minimal upgrade 70 to 90...

sony has price up sleeve to do something. be interesting if they do or jsut stay by the sidelines keeping with folks buying on brand rather than price ...
 

Harold88

Member
Well as you can see from my list here the 590es is the direct competitor of the N5 which, in my oppinion, it's what it should have been everywhere...
 

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