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ProgressiveScan without 3:2 pulldown

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Shahrouz, Mar 5, 2004.

  1. Shahrouz

    Shahrouz
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    There are Progressive Scan DVD players without 3:2 pulldown processing.

    How will be the video quality of such players (in prog mode) when playing film-based material?

    Does a "ProgScan without 3:2 pulldown" give better video quality than interlaced video?

    Your comments are much appreciated. :)
     
  2. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    To deinterlace film source material that is played back interlaced at 60Hz you would want film mode 2:3 detection. (ie for NTSC or 480i60Hz)

    For PAL or 576i50Hz material that was originally on film you want 2:2 film mode pulldown detection.

    If you have neither then forget it.

    Gordon
     
  3. sonyhunter

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    Does this mean that the Sony 930 and 999ES are not recommended since I believe they are 3:2 pulldown - what is the difference in quality.

    I can't seem to find any 2:2 pulldown players - have you got any examples?
     
  4. Shahrouz

    Shahrouz
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  5. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    If a prodcut has 2:3 pulldown it will quite good with NTSC film source material but wil be not good with PAL. You also have to understand that not all implimentations of 2:3 or 2:2 pulldown are the same. It's a bit like saying if a car has a turbocharged engine it will be good, but a Saab and a Subaru are not the same performance.

    All Arcam's units have 2:2 and 2:3 , Denon have several players that have both.

    Gordon
     
  6. Shahrouz

    Shahrouz
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    Thanks again Gordon,

    I do understand the difference between 2:2 (PAL) and 2:3 (NTSC).

    The basic reason for this thread is that I am looking to buy Yamaha S540 ProgScan DVD player which is not equipped with 2:3 pulldown. I send them an e-mail and they confirmed 2:3 pulldown is not implemented in this player.

    Nevertheless, I'm still thinking about buying it. I think a decent ProgScan DVD player will not come cheap, and I'm on a budget
    Maybe I forget about it's ProgScan capability and use it via interlaced mode.

    I just found a preview of it in a German site which I'm sure is a respectful site.
    The URL is
    http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/yamahadvds540.shtml

    the page is in German. However, you can translate it using online translators.
    Google will not give you a perfect translation. If you want to try, go for www.freetranslation.com

    regards,
    Shahrouz
     
  7. Underscore

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    OK, brief description of 2-2 and 3-2 pulldown. Let's take a regular, 24 frames per second film with frames 1, 2, 3 & 4.

    For PAL, this is sped up to 25 frames per second so all that is needed is to split the frames into two interlaced fields, a & b. Hence, for PAL, the fields output (at 50Hz) would be 1a, 1b, 2a, 2b, 3a, 3b, 4a, 4b. The key thing is that you have pairs of fields that correspond to the same frame, i.e. the cadence is 2 - 2 - 2 - 2; this is 2-2 pulldown and a player needs 2-2 pulldown detection to ensure that it combines fields 1a & 1b to produce frame 1, rather than 1b & 2a, which would produce an artefact called combing.

    For NTSC, 24 frames per second are converted to 30 frames per second by duplicating some fields: 1a, 1b, 1a, 2b, 2a, 3b, 3a, 3b, 4a, 4b. Here you see the cadence is 3 - 2 - 3 - 2, or 3-2 pulldown. Again, 3-2 pulldown detection is needed to correctly recover the original movies frames without combing.

    Note, the above only applies to cadence-based deinterlacers - like the Sony - which ignore the flags on the disc and try to spot the 2-2 or 3-2 cadence to deinterlace. Other players rely on the discs ahving the correct flags to allow the correct recombination of field to produce the original movie frames. This is easier to implement but leaves you completely at the mercy of the DVD author.

    FWIW, my 730 seems to correctly detect 2-2 and 3-2 pulldown - included wrongly flagged discs that would comb badly on a flag reading player.

    HTH,

    _
     

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