progressive to crt

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by rob virgo, Mar 17, 2006.

  1. rob virgo

    rob virgo
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    lads ,

    im upgrading my signal to 1270 sony proj from s-vid to component.
    i have switched over to progressive scan from interlaced.it doesnt work.....

    can my proj accept progressive
    i am running through a quadscan elite
     
  2. Boy Lex

    Boy Lex
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    It'll be the quadscan getting confused most likely... It'll be expecting an interlaced source Switching your dvd from interlaced to progressive doesn't add anything to the signal... Your quadscan will do the work to the signal to upscale it, so leave it on interlaced.
     
  3. Welwynnick

    Welwynnick
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    Rob, see my note re: duplicate thread in the Prog Scan Forum.

    Could you explain at what point it doesn't work - when you switched form s-video to component, or from interlaced to progressive?

    I believe the 1270 should be well up to progressive scan inputs: max horiz refresh 75 kHz (Curt Palm), video bandwidth 40 MHz (AVS FAQ), and most say it can take 1024x768 or even 1280x1024 (not so sure). So there shouldn't be any problem there.

    I assume you are using the Quadscan to do the de-interlacing, and not a DVD player? Could it be that your quadscan uses the different HDTV syncs when generating progressive video, or just getting the sync polarity mixed up?

    Nick
     
  4. rob virgo

    rob virgo
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    thanks for the reply lads,


    any thoughts
     
  5. Welwynnick

    Welwynnick
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    SOME scalers do accept progressive inputs, but you would normally only put interlaced into them. I assume that you want the quadscan to do the de-interlacing.

    nick
     
  6. bxd

    bxd
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    Hi,

    I've got an earlier Quadscan. It will only accept an interlaced component input. Your Quadscan probably isn't any different so it won't like a progressive input. The Quadscan will deinterlace and upscale but you need to feed it an interlaced input.

    My manual says that the YPbPr output is only available as a special order. Your Quadscan might be different (as it's younger) but you probably need to check that you've selected the progressive output component output.

    (You might also want to check that the Quadscans inputs are 'set' as 'inputs' as you can change them.)

    You might also check that the Sony 1270s component input can accept a 'upscaled' component signal (i.e. 'more than' just deinterlaced). I though I read somewhere (someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that the component board would only accept 480p.

    I'm not quite sure why you'd want to use the component input for anything other than progressive component directly from the dvd player (I'm sure you'll have a good reason). I would just use the rgbhv output from the Quadscan straight into the rgbhv inputs on the projector. I't might also be useful to check that the rgbhv output is working OK .... wire up a vga to rgbhv cable.

    Hope that's of some use.

    Brian
     
  7. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    Lex has the right answer. It doesn't need to get more complicated.

    Rob, stick to interlaced output via component into the QS and it'll work fine. Job done. :smashin:
     
  8. rob virgo

    rob virgo
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    lads ,
    cheers

    i am trying to get the best signal to qs and then to proj.this is the current route
    interlaced ex dvd via component leads to qs.vga to 5 bnc to proj.
    i am trying several res and xga seems to give the size i want.as isf guys dont exist over here in Ireland i have set sony up myself.therefore i dont see a huge difference in res changes on qs.I have a 110 dia for a 1;1.85 pic.

    all the above may be completly wrong but im on a steep learning curve....lol

    cheers
    rob
     
  9. BobbyBlaze

    BobbyBlaze
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    Hi,
    Just thought it would be mentioning to do a search on the American avsforums.com in their crt projector forum for "Brian Hampton IFB12 settings" as he has fiddled with some switches on his component input board to allow it to accept 720p/1080i as well. Some others have had good results doing this.

    Have fun,

    Rob
     
  10. rob virgo

    rob virgo
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    this is the proj spec

    VPH-1272Q/QM Specifications

    ________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________

    Optical Inputs (cont.)

    Projection system: 3 tubes, 3 lenses, direct projection system G/sync on G: BNC

    Picture tube: New 7-inch (6.2-inch phosphor size) high 0.7Vp-p, positive, 75 Ohms

    luminance monochrome tubes with pure filter 1Vp-p, sync negative, 75 Ohms

    improved gun and new green phosphor.

    Projection Lenses: HACC Multi coated lenses, F1.12/140mm. Sync: Composite sync: BNC

    Screen size: 70 to 300-inch measured diagonally Analog level: 0.6 to 8Vp-p, high impedance

    (factory preset 120-inch)) positive/negative

    Light output: 145 ANSI*1 lumens (fV:93kHz,fH:50Hz,6500K) TTL level: Positive/negative

    700 lm (peak white) HD/VD separate:

    200 lm (all white) Analog level:

    Throwing distance: 70-inch: 2047mm (6 ft 9 inches) Analog level: 0.6 to 8Vp-p, high impedance,

    120-inch: 3279mm (11 ft 9 inches) positive/negative

    200 inch: 5334mm (17 ft 6 inches) TTL level: positive/negative

    250-inch: 6635mm (21 ft 10 inches) Audio: Phono x 2

    300-inch: 7935mm (26 ft 1 inch) -5dBu, impedance more than 47k Ohms

    ________________________________________________________ (stereo or monaural selectable)

    General INPUT B (open for an optional IFB series input module)

    Color system: NTSC/PAL/SECAM/NTSC4.43 REMOTE1: 14-pin connector (male)
    (automatically selected) REMOTE 2: D-sub 9-pin connector (female, RS-422)
    Resolution: 700TV lines (video in) CONTROL S: Loop-through Mini connector

    1500 x 1200 pixels (RGB in ________________________________________________________
    measured at fH:74kHz, fv:60Hz) Output

    RGB bandwidth: 70MHz (-3db) VIDEO OUT: BNC

    Scanning frequency: Horizontal: 15 to 93kHz 1Vp-p, sync negative, 75 Ohms

    Vertical: 38 to 150Hz ________________________________________________________

    Test Signals: Hatch (coarse, fine, fine invert)

    Cross hair, Dot pattern, H pattern, Window, Accessories

    Pluge, All white (100 IRE) SUPPLIED ACCESSORIES:

    Speaker: Max. 3W, 8 Ohms, monaural Interface board IFB-11

    Power requirements: AC 120V, 50/60Hz Remote commander RM-1271
    Power consumption: Max 560W AA size battery x 3 (for RM-1271)

    Dimensions: 620(W) X 355(H) X 817(D)mm Remote control cable (15m)

    (24 1/2 X 14 X 32 1/4 inches) Lens spacer x 2

    Weight: 64kg (141 lb 1.5 oz) CRT spacer

    ________________________________________________________ Washers (12 pcs, 0.4/0.5/1.0/1.2mm)

    Inputs AC power cord

    VIDEO BNC Operational manual

    Composiite video*2: 1Vp-p, sync negative, 75 Ohms OPTIONAL ACCESSORIES:

    Y/C*2: Mini DIN 4-pin Interface board: IFB-11/20/30/101/1000/1200/3000*3

    Y (luminance): 1Vp-p, sync negative 75 Ohms Signal interface switcher: PC-1271

    C (chrominance): 0.286Vp-p (NTSC) Interface unit: IFU-1271

    0.3Vp-p(PAL), 75ohms Signal interface cable: SIC-10/20a/20b/21/22/30

    Audio: Phono Infrared remote control unit:RM-1270S
    -5dBu, monaural, impedance > 47k Ohms (supplied with the PC-1271)

    INPUT A (supplied with IFB-11) Infrared remote control receiver: RM-PJ10

    R/B: BNC Suspension support: PSS-10/1270/1272

    0.7Vp-p, positive, 75 Ohms Flat screen: 100-inch: VPS-100FH
    ________________________________________________________ Curved screen : 72-inch: VPS-72HG1

    100-inch: VPS-100HG1

    Multi cable: SIC-M cable: (1/15/25/50m)

    ________________________________________________________

    0dBu=0.775Vrms

    *1 ANSI lumens measured using ANSI IT 7.215
    *2 The Y/C in has priority over the composite video in.

    *3 IFB-3000 should be installed in the PC-1271 switcher.



    Specifications subject to change without notice. PJCalc! - Copyright © 1994, 1995, 1997 Sony Electronics Inc.
     
  11. morksbeanbag

    morksbeanbag
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    I'm having exactly the same problem. At the moment i have a DVP-NS999ES dvd player which i think is fantastic. I have also just bought a VPH-1272QM. I want to give it the very best signal i possibly can, it seems i should use the component out to a scaler/line doubler (whats the difference?) and this will have an RGBHV output that i can connect directly to my PJ, giving me say 720p over an RGBHV connection rather than component.

    I understand that RGB is supposedly better then component. Whether it is or not anything is better than using hateful S-video.

    What do i need to give me say 720p via RGBHV that i can plug my dvd player into via component?
     
  12. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    Line doublers give just one output resolution that is double the number of lines of the input resolution. So, you can see where the name came from! :D Doublers produce 480p for NTSC and 576p for PAL.

    All the line doublers I've worked on will only accept an interlaced video signal. They pre-date Prog Scan DVD players which is really a DVD player with a built-in line doubler.

    A scaler is the next step up in the evolutionary chain. It's a box of tricks that can stretch or scale an input signal to create a series of different output resolutions. This allows you to better match the output resolution of the scaler to the abilities of the projector. You talked about 720p for your Sony. That's a resolution that a scaler can produce but a doubler can't.
     
  13. morksbeanbag

    morksbeanbag
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    Right so what i have already is a line doubler in my DVD player outputting 576p. So to take this output (or others) and turn it to say 720p or 1080i i would need a scaler. Will a scaler accept 576p or 576i only, if only 576i will it also line double or will i just get 720i output and need a line doubler after the scaler in the signal path?

    If possible i'd like to use the progressive scan in my 999ES as i'm very pleased with the results it can give over a DLP projector.

    I've seen something called an Iscan Pro, but it looks as if this is a line doubler only, is this the case?
     
  14. Boy Lex

    Boy Lex
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    I think you need to go back to basics to understand why we have interlaced video and what it is. The reason stems from the technicalities of broadcasting when it was born. Standard PAL video is 25 frames per second, but each frame consists of two interlaced fields. First your TV will display all the even lines (of the 576 PAL lines), then it will display all the odd lines. This change occurs every 1/50th of a second. The reality is that true PAL can really be considered 50 frames per second, because television is shot interlaced in the first place.

    Now if you turn this interlaced signal into a progressive signal, you are really combining these two fields and line doubling so that the number of lines on your projector are 576. Great...

    However, if you then want a scaler to do something else to this signal and upscale it, you will be upscaling a doubled signal... overprocessing.

    There is also the issue of pulldown. Because film is 24fps, most scalers and line doublers employ a reverse telecine process that I believe works on the interlaced signal to return you to true 24fps. I'm pretty sure that making the signal progressive before it gets to a scaler will nullify this clever circuitry.

    My advise... Leave it interlaced and fiddle with it all at the scaler end... That way you are ensuring that the scaler gets a good clean unprocessed and mess with signal.

    The iscan pro is a line doubler only, but it has the reverse telecine stuff I mention, so may be better than the progressive output of your dvd player. For higher than 576p you'll need an iscan hd or equivalent.
     
  15. brian aitken

    brian aitken
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    Hi Morksbeanbag,



    What you need is a scaler like a lumagen vision which will accept an sd interlaced signal only be it 480i or 576i through its component inputs and then this little box of tricks will then line double it to output it anything from 480p up to 1080p.The only interlaced signal it will output is 1080i.Its output is a vga connector which will either output component or rgbhv.It also has a passthrough vga input connector which would let you use your dvd player in progressive scan mode.But the lumagen would do a better job than your dvd player will.And yes the iscan pro is just a line doubler and not a scaler.

    Brian
     
  16. morksbeanbag

    morksbeanbag
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    Excellent replies, i think i understand now. :thumbsup:

    It looks like then if i want 720p then a scaler is a must. However i've just looked at the prices:eek: £650 second hand for an Iscan HD, then again i bet the picture is fantastic.

    £650 is alot more than i can afford for quite a while so it looks like i'll be aiming for 576p as my main resolution until Blu-ray arrives.

    I have one interface board, its a IFB-10QA, this is only RGBHV, i don't really want to have any boxes inbetween my dvd player and pj if its not going to be scaled so i've been looking around for another interface board with component input than can handle 576p and (when blu-ray comes along) 720p/1080i.

    I found this, a guy called moome makes them up.

    http://221.169.10.62/sony_dvi.htm

    People over at AVSFORUMS have been using them and they seen to work great. It works out at £142 delivered, that seems quite good to me.
     
  17. rob virgo

    rob virgo
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    morks ,

    good to see exprts helping us mere mortals:D to understand this connection issue.

    I have now turned off the prog output at dvd and run rgb thru component output to quadscan elite(scaler £200).this then outputs rgb to proj via vga in what ever res i pick.

    1.2.3 Output Resolutions

    Progressive Resolution Color Space Aspect Ratio Mode Title

    720 x 480 (NTSC) RGB 4:3 DBL TV
    720 x 576 (PAL) RGB 4:3 DBL TV
    640 x 480 RGB 4:3 VGA
    800 x 600 RGB 4:3 SVGA
    1024 x 768 RGB 4:3 XGA
    720 x 720 (NTSC) RGB 16:9 TRIPLE TV
    720 x 864 (PAL) RGB 16:9 TRIPLE TV
    720 x 960 (NTSC) RGB 16:9 QUAD TV
    720 x 1152 (PAL) RGB 16:9 QUAD TV
    1365 x 1024 RGB 4:3 D-ILA


    i havent figured which to use yet as they all look fairly sinilar.i know this sounds bad as i should see a big difference.the lines are completly gone but image does look a little soft.
    I am using a 96x54 screen so a big image.
    I can recommend the quadscan even tho i was told it was brilliant in its day it is now superseded.
    The proj i have is older than the quad so if it was good then thats good enough for me.Didnt want to spend any more than £200 anyway and newer units are much more.
    they pop up on the bay every few weeks.

    cheers
     
  18. bxd

    bxd
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    Rob,

    There used to be a bit of an 'issue' with a soft picture because some Quadscans (I don't know if it applies to your model) have some sort of 'filtering' on their video output stages.
    This can be (physically) removed so you might want to ask about doing that over on the US based AVSForums.

    Brian
     

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