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Progressive Scan Puzzler!!!

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Jasonjo, Dec 3, 2001.

  1. Jasonjo

    Jasonjo
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    Hi All,

    I have a Pioneer 737 DVD player and would liek to start using the Progressicve Scan feature - however, my TV doesn't have component inputs and the pioneer outputs progressive scan only from the component outputs.

    So...is there anything I can do in terms of converters etc??

    I had idea that as my Amp routes component video - could I ouput progressive scan to the amp and then use S-Video to connect to the TV - Would this keep the progressice scan element??

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

    JJ
     
  2. RichardA

    RichardA
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    Hi Jason, Welcome to the forums!

    Unfortunatley you can only use the Progressive scan output of your DVD player with a display that has compatible progressive scan inputs.

    For more info on Progressive scan and how it works try the link at the top of the page (hover over the "Official Forums of" and then click on the "Progressive Scan" link that appears)

    In a nutshell though, Progressive scan can not be carried over Composite or S-Video connections, they will only take Interlaced video (which is what a non-progressive scan signal is)

    Component and RGB can carry Interlace or Progressive scan, but (and it's a big BUT), that doesn't mean that all component and RGB connections do. In fact most don't!
    Check very carefully in the specifications of the TV or whatever to make sure that the inputs are compatible - some sets will have 'Progressive Scan' as a feature but they may well mean that the internal processing works in progressive, but the inputs may still not accept it directly.

    As you can see this is a far from simple area - without an official version of Progressive Scan for PAL (the standard exists, it just hasn't been ratified) there are few European displays capable of accepting the input, and only 'chipped' DVD players officially capable of outputting PAL Progressive.

    Just as a quick note, the Progressive version of NTSC (e.g. from Region 1 disks) is often called 480P. The Progressive version of PAL (e.g. from Region 2 disks) is often called 576P.
    The number is the active lines in the picture and the P means Progressive scan.

    I hope this helps!
     
  3. Jasonjo

    Jasonjo
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    Thanks for your detailed reply Richard...

    I thought this was pretty much the case, but thought I should check now that i have shelved the idea of buying a plasma in the near future...

    JJ
     
  4. Jasonjo

    Jasonjo
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    I assume it's pretty unlikely that my Panasonic TV would allow Prog scan over RGB?

    If it can, can you get component => scart RGD leads?

    JJ
     
  5. RichardA

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    Jason,

    Progressive over SCART is not available on any TV set I'm aware of - it's an interlace only connection.

    RGB and Component are similar but not the same (or directly compatible) and there are some rules about how DVD players can be connected.

    A DVD player should only output RGB on SCART connections, you can't have separate connectors.

    SCART does not support Component, therfore Component should be on 3 separate connectors (BNC or RCA Phono usually)

    That's the theory, now in practice life is never that easy!

    Arcam and Loewe have 'bent' these 'rules' slightly and do pass Component over SCART, but I believe they are the only ones (hopefully anyone who knows differently will chime in) but I believe this is still only Interlace, not Progressive.

    You can get SCART to 4x BNC (usually sold for Projectors) which would allow you to connect your player (set to Interlace and using the R G and B connections only) via component to the Loewe TV, but that's all

    So, I think it should be safe to say that you won't get progressive scan over SCART (and a good job to - the connector is really not up to it!)

    You will only ever see Progressive scan on 3 individual sockets (often they may be coloured Red, Green and Blue though, just to confuse)

    Hope this helps
     
  6. Jasonjo

    Jasonjo
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    Ok Rich...looks like I will have to wait for the plasma then!! :)

    Thanks Again for your input...

    JJ
     
  7. laurie

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    Richard
    I stand to be corrected but there is no way you can have progressive over RGB!

    My denon 2800 has RGB out but my 10ht see it as a computer signal "15k/50" where as "YGB" see's it as "576p/50"

    cheers Laurie
     
  8. RichardA

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    Laurie,

    Progressive over RGB is fairly common - Virtually every PC monitor runs Progressive RGB exclusively.

    Is the Denon's RGB output over SCART? if so I did say that you cannot get Progressive RGB or Component over SCART, which would explain why the projector is reporting 15KHz/50Hz - if it was receiving Progressive it should be saying 31KHz/50Hz.

    Hope this helps,
     
  9. laurie

    laurie
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    So Richard lesson #2.

    Whats different between SCART rgb ( yes as usual you were right it was the scart output I was using) !! is it because there is no room for the H & V signal on that connector:confused:

    thanks again Laurie
     
  10. RichardA

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    Laurie,

    The SCART connector was designed to connect pieces of domestic video equipment together - it was never anticipated that progressive scan from DVD would ever take off, so the standard was set for interlace video only. And yes, you are right that there aren't enough pins for seperate H and V syncs anyway.

    The 'standard' interconnect for Progressive scan RGB would probably be the 15pin 'VGA' connector (though obviously 5 BNC's would be better quality)

    Don't forget that SCART is a CONNECTOR standard, not a signal format - although the standard does set out what signals are allowed.

    RGB, Component, Progressive scan and Interlace are all signal formats and are independent of the connectors used.

    The DVD licencing people (i.e. the people you have to pay, as a player manufacturer, to use the DVD logo) specify what signals, connectors and stuff that you can and can't do.

    This means that player manufacturers that don't want to risk being sued for big money have to abide by the DVD rules. 3rd party machine modifiers and the eastern manufacturers that will just shut up shop and start again in a different name don't 'have' to abide by these rules and can bend them a bit (e.g. I believe the Skyworth has it's progressive scan RGB output on a VGA connector)

    Hope this is of interest
     
  11. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    How's that, then, Jason?
    You ask your question on the Home Entertainment forums and how many replies do you get? Diddly squat.
    Ask your question here and you get a reply from a respected person from Snell and Wilcox, no less.
    Thanks Richard.
    :D
     
  12. RichardA

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    Spectre,

    Aw shucks :blush:
     
  13. laurie

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    Thanks Richard you made on aussie a little more the wiser!

    and a merry christmas to you

    regards laurie:D
     

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