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Progressive scan on PAL xbox?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by markyh, Feb 27, 2003.

  1. markyh

    markyh
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    Hi, I sent this emal to Xbox customer help,

    Hi
    I thinking of getting a new TV so i want to get the best for my xbox, i've
    heard Progressive scan TV's are the best for quality but i've also heard
    that pal xbox's dont support prog-scan, is this true? if it is how can i
    change it to support it. Prog-scan is the future and i'm a little
    dissapointed to hear xbox doesnt support it.. Any suggestions?
    thanks
    Mark..............


    They replied with this, dont really think it answers my question tho...:confused:
    Subject: Reply from Xbox Customer Care
    Thanks for contacting the Xbox Customer Care Team with your query.

    Games can potentially display at a resolution of 1080i if you are using an HDTV and the game you are playing both supports this resolution and is set to display it. Currently, however, all existing games support 480i, and do not yet support a higher resolution. Check your game manual for more information.
    DVD movies display at a maximum resolution of 480i. They do not display in 480p or higher. Xbox does not support progressive scan resolution for DVD movie playback.

    If you require further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.
    Regards,
    Xbox Customer Care Team


    Can anyone help??????
    Cheers
    Mark...........
     
  2. bxd

    bxd
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    Hi,

    Best thing to do is to post your query on the games forum.

    You'll need to get your X-box chipped to handle North american games and dvds, AND you'll also need to get the HDTV video cables to go with it.

    Brian
     
  3. leedsfireman

    leedsfireman
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    What you need to do is the same as me;

    1- Get your x box chipped

    2-Get an pal to ntnc conveter disc

    3-Get component cable kit (in my opinion not the Game one as this gave me a ghosting image when in prog scan)

    4-Have a plasma or tv that takes prog scan via component.
     
  4. CoolioCat

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    I looked into all this some time ago.

    It was my understanding all XBOX's made in Europe had the progressive scan chip removed. However, this is incorrect.

    If you access the XBOX UK PAL video mode, there is no progressive scan. When you use a high definition advanced a/v pack, progressive scan modes are available, but ONLY in 480i and 480p mode. This can be changed if you replace the UK PAL bios of the XBOX with a US one, or you simply get a CD called 'PAL to NTSC' converter. I have one spare around here if you want it.

    HOWEVER, on a USA or JAP XBOX with the highdef pack plugged in, modes go all the way up to 1080p.

    Regarding DVD playback... The XBOX chip is capable of playing DVD's in progressive scan. However, to comply with Macrovision rules and regs, Microsoft disabled it.

    This is easily re-enabled by having your XBOX chipped with a mod such as the Xecuter II (costs around £35), and then installing a DVD software player on it (you copy it from your PC to your XBOX using a ftp program and the ethernet connection).

    You can then PATCH this DVD software to run in progressive scan.

    Regarding GAME progressive scan playback. 480i only is complete and utter crap. Quite a few games support 480p, and I think Halo/Dead or Alive both support 720p. There are sites that give lists of what games support what res.

    However, once again you can force games into progressive scan via some sorta patch. I have it installed, but no idea how exactly it was done. All i know is that all my SNES emulated games run in progressive scan... which is pretty damn freaky. MARIO in 480p... all 256 colours (less for other games).

    E-mail me at : people@littlemoor.org if you need some help or urls of sites that can aid you.

    Hurrah. Job done.
     
  5. markyh

    markyh
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    Thanks for the reply, i've emailed..

    Is there a lot of differance playing games in 480p than 480i, i think i'll just settle for that till i get my xbox chipped..

    Cheers
    Mark...
     
  6. CoolioCat

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    The difference is pretty significant yes :)

    Jaggies are gone, etc. Much smoother picture. Much slicker.

    Forcing the interlaced only games into progressive scan creates odd effects. Nothing nasty... seems to almost highlight the jaggies of interlaced. Very weird. Looks slick though. Guess that's what happens when you run interlaced games in progressive.
     
  7. John DB

    John DB
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    This site - http://www.hdtvarcade.com/ Lists each games progressive capability in std form (unpatched)

    CoolioCat - sent you an e-mail requesting url's, cheers.

    John.
     
  8. markyh

    markyh
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    Hi,
    Are you talking about US games or is it the same with PAL games aswell..

    Mark...
     
  9. Mr_Belowski

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    Interesting...

    So, just to confirm (before I run to the shops). My standard (not chipped) PAL XBox WILL play games in 480p (on my Sanyo Z1 projector via component video) mode if I buy a high definition pack?

    And this is without any further modifications?

    And...

    It's difficult to find a MS high-def pack in the UK. If the one they sell in Game (the Gamester one, or whatever it's called) isn't very good, does anyone have any other sources for these things?

    Thanks :)
     
  10. CoolioCat

    CoolioCat
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    There may be differences between the new Xbox v1.1 and the old ones (1.0). The new boxes in the UK had various tweaks added to prevent hacking/mod chips - though this is only effective against older modchips. They may or may not have tinkered with the hd modes as well.

    A few users reported using PAL UK xbox's with the imported high def pack from Microsoft, and the video modes available only being 480p. They would select this, and the screen would go black. Or games simply wouldn't load up when this setting was turned on... They had to put in their original cables again and the progressive mode would have gone (obviously), resetting the console to load games properly. I recall this happening to me too on one box.

    If you have a UK XBOX, and you purchase a high def pack, you should get 480P. Whether games load up or not (you reset the XBOX and the game you have in the drive simply doesn't load) - i couldn't say for sure. The UK dashboard does not support progressive scan, so that's why it goes black right away. This does NOT mean that the progressive mode does not work for games.

    The gamester high-def pack is of lesser quality than the microsoft one. Without a doubt.

    You can buy the Microsoft pack from:

    mx2.co.uk - where i get mine from. Good supplier, superb price, based in Jersey, in stock right now.

    cagames (Glasgow) - never used em before, but might soon...

    Madeira Games - Expensive, not sure of stock level.

    New Age Consoles - No idea...

    Console Plus - Matt at Console Plus deals in loads of cool wires/mods/gadgets for the XBOX, so check this site out as well.

    If you access ConsolePlus you can buy simple mod chips that allow you to solve this whole business once and for all. You can also get a CDRW which allows you to boot the XBOX dashboard with either a US or UK bios (NTSC or PAL). When booted with the NTSC option, and a high def pack is plugged in, the dashboard should show you the whole set of HD settings, all the way up to 1080i.

    You can also add code to the xbox quite easily to switch all games to progressive scan 480p, including DVD playback.
     
  11. Spoonman2

    Spoonman2
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    I agree with the above, I got my component cable (official) from Lik Sang, was about £24 delivered, and the picture is stunning now, as said above, i got 3 options of screen, 480, 720, and 1080.

    Now a very clear pin sharp picture, where as before using an official advanced scart the picture was"ok"

    I have a pal xbox too, but used the video selector, and there ya` go. :)

    Spoony.
     
  12. bash

    bash
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    AndyNumpty

    Same here, what if I was to use the Gamester kit with better component cables? Or is the box also at fault here?
     
  13. leedsfireman

    leedsfireman
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    I tried that with £100 qed cables, still the same. Try & get ms kit.
     
  14. bash

    bash
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    Damn, looks like Im gonna have to sell it then!
     
  15. bash

    bash
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    What about the 3rd one down HERE, TBH Im thinking a direct cable would be better than a box.
     
  16. museumsteve

    museumsteve
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    a bit confused as to whther this was properly resolved on here or not, but to reiterate, a non modded UK Xbox will not output a progressive signal regardless of what the dashboard says.:)
     
  17. Jason S

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    I'll back that up, and anyone who is using an un modified Xbox which displays the 480p option has

    1. A version 1.0 Xbox (These had an "error" in the dashboard)

    and

    2. Has not connected to XBox Live or tried to by launching the XBL content from a XBL game (The "error" is rectified in the update for XBL)
     
  18. markyh

    markyh
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    Mmm confusion,
    Dont really know who to believe here, a few differant conclusions.

    Mark.........
     
  19. museumsteve

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    me me.. believe me..:laugh: (just kiddin)

    on a more serious note..a PAL Xbox will not output a progressive signal for games, DVDs, dashboard or anything else unless it is modded mate. On early UK Xbox, if you plugged in a component cable (Hi-Def kit) then a 480p option would open in the dashboard but would give no results.

    Cant say much else other than try it for yourself if you cant make up your mind.:)
     
  20. Jason S

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    If you're unsure who to trust, why not

    Buy a hi-def cable and try it (you will need this anyway)

    When it doesn't allow progressive playback, pop back and ask about modchips, whilst cursing MS for misleading you.

    Fit a modchip, get progressive playback, be happy in the knowledge that your friends on the forum wanted to help :lesson:
     
  21. museumsteve

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    hehe..
    anyway, I just checked back through this thread and no one has said you WILL get progressive from an unmodded UK machine.:)
     
  22. Mr_Belowski

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    That's right. You absolutely positively WON'T get progressive scan from a non-modded PAL Xbox, no matter what you plug into the back.

    I know this from experience. I had to mod mine (and do a load of messing about with illegal xbox software and ftp and other annoying techie stuff) just to get progressive scan. Outrageous, really. But the image quality is certainly worth the effort if you're using a very big screen.


    Oh, and the gamester hi-def pack is complete utter junk. 480p looked awful on it, but on the MS pack it looks great


    And one more thing, progressive DVD playback is disabled even on a US Xbox with hi-def pack. What's doubly annoying is that a modded xbox can do it, but only with 3rd party (illegal) DVD playback software. Even then, you gotta hack the executeable with a flippin HEX editor to enable it. It's great quality tho once you finally get it working - much better than my progressive scan DVD player in fact.

    It's amazing how many cool features are disabled on a non-modded PAL Xbox. I'm dreading the day the M$ figures out how to make new original games not run on a modded box :(
     
  23. bash

    bash
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    What is your prog scan DVD player, just out of interest. Im really intrigues that the Xbox should be better than a dedicated machine.
     
  24. Mr_Belowski

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    It's a Cambridge Audio DVD55. Looks great on interlaced, but pants in progressive :(
     
  25. bash

    bash
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    Ah yes, there have been a few negative comments about that DVD player.

    Thanx for the info, Im prolly gonna get my Xbox fully modded tomorrow and will be using it as a dedicated prog scan DVD player.
     
  26. leedsfireman

    leedsfireman
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    Mr belowski,
    Am i right in thinking that it will only do prog scan in ntsc or will it do it in pal as well. I am asking as i have a fully modded xbox & some one did patch it to output prog scan in dvd play back but even though my panny plasma said it was getting a prog scan pic i have to admit that my tosh 210 dvd player in normal out put was better. Could he have patched it wrong & is it that much better in prog scan.
    Thanks,
    Andy.
     
  27. Mr_Belowski

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    It only outputs prog scan in NTSC. If your display says it's p-scan, then it probably is :)

    Maybe I'm so impressed by the quality cos my DVD play (which is the only other p-scan capable device I have) is so awful? You are using the official MS hi-def pack, aren't you?
     
  28. leedsfireman

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    Yes i'm using ms hi def back but i've upgraded leads with qed ones. I think i was just expecting this great picture to jump out at me in prog scan. When you say only in ntsc does this mean that it has to be a region 1 dvd or will it work with a region 2 dvd (pal).
     
  29. Mr_Belowski

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    It works fine with region 2 DVDs. Weird about the image quality. When I went to p-scan, Halo really blew me away. But then, I'm using a projector so my image is like 8 feet across, so I really notice the difference
     
  30. leedsfireman

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    I agree the games that i have which support prog scan are a lot better it's just the dvd play back that i was expecting more, also the picture tended to ' jutter ' when panning across a scene.
     

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