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Progressive scan and conectivity

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by zoran, May 2, 2001.

  1. zoran

    zoran
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    Is there anybody out there who understands two topics I find more and more often in the HC magazines, both concerning progressive scan. The topics are:
    1. compatibility with PAL
    2. the so called "wideband" component video, that is supposed to be necessary for accepting true progressive scan by a display device
    The first topic is described as a copy protection issue, while the other is strictly technical one, since progressive scan needs more bandwidth. The latter seems logical to me, but how should I know whether a display device has appropriate component inputs for the purpose?
    Has anybody the same concerns?
     
  2. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    First check out www.progressivescan.co.uk.
    The reason why there are no official PAL progressive players is because the committee forgot to ask Macrovision to develop a PAL version of their copy protection. So only NTSC macrovision got created. Hence there's only NTSC progressive output on progressive scan DVD players.
    However, home cinema PCs output progressive scan irrespective of the source of the original DVD. Hence any region DVD can be played.
    Someone else can answer your second question as my tea is ready.
     
  3. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Zoran,

    To check whether a TV is capable of accepting progressive scan signal through its component inputs you need to confirm the following.

    That it is capable of scanning to at least 31.5KHz for NTSC material at 60Hz. Pal requires slightly lower and isn't available just now anyway. The specs at the back of most instruction manuals will list input compatability. Interlaced signals require 15Khz or thereabouts.

    Hope this is of some use.

    Gordon
     
  4. Oasis

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    Zoran,

    I'll try and answer the questions for you !

    1) Compatibility with PAL - as Spectre said, it is currently against the 'rules' of DVD players to have progressive PAL output. This doesn't mean that it is impossible to have progressive PAL (or 576P for a 'correct' term), simply that a DVD player is not allowed to provide it. Many out side boxes can do it - as an example the Iscan Pro will output 576P from a PAL source and 480P from an NTSC source - and this uses the same chip as, for example, the Denon 3300, but the Denon has to have the 576P bit disabled to stay 'legal'.

    Expect this to change in the future, this is a recognised bottle-neck in Europe that has to be addressed.

    2) Displays that will work with it. Well this is a bit of a chicken and egg - there will be few displays that can accept 576P if there aren't many players that can output it!

    However, to determine whether a display can accept progressive scan you will need to read the specification sheets pretty carefully!

    One giveaway should be "HDTV ready" as 576P is fundamentally a HDTV format (There are 32 basic HDTV formats accepted in the US but well over 90 worldwide) , note "Digital Ready" is not the same thing!

    The display should have component inputs (it is questionable whether 576P will be allowed on RGB connections) - this doesn't mean any display with component in will do, it is the first part of the check!& it is quite practical to convert component to RGB without quality loss, so this is not a complete show-stopper.

    The display will also need to have a Horizontal scan rate in excess of 31.5KHz. (This is the higher bandwidth bit - to get double the number of scan lines out every 50th or 60th second, the lines have to be sent in half the time so the 'bandwidth' of the input needs to be double that of a 'normal' TV - the theoretical bandwidth for DVD is 6.75MHz, so 576P would need 13.5MHz)

    My understanding at this moment in time is that it is virtually impossible to find a domestic European TV set capable of taking Component 576P (there are a few that might take RGB 576P).

    I am checking around Plasma screens at this moment, by chance, to check exactly this problem but it's too early to confirm anything yet.

    Many projectors will work perfectly with component 576P, but you should carefully check the data sheet of the unit, some simpler units may not have true multi-scan capabilities, and will only work at specific scan rates (an example would be the Ellie CRT projector - there is a list of compatible scan rates, other rates may not work - though I believe 576P is one of those compatable rates so it should work fine)and certain 'vision' (as opposed to 'Data' or 'Graphics')projectors may not have the necessary circuitry.

    So, to re-iterate;

    Component Inputs does not automatically mean Progressive scan compatible.

    A Spec sheet that talks about scan rates will be a good indicator.

    But, ultimately, until the 576P format is confirmed, the chances of finding a direct-view TV set that will work in Europe is pretty slim!


    I hope this helps, but let us know if anything is unclear!


    Oasis
     
  5. zoran

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    Thank you, Gordon, it is small but valuable information. :)
     
  6. zoran

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    Thank you, Oasis, your answer is making things more clear to me now. It is a little grim feeling to realize how much Europe is behind. But in spite of that, I like the fact that there is someone who we can turn to, for a competent answer.
    Thank you for your effort!
     
  7. zoran

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    Thanks, Spectre. I hope you tea has not cooled off...
    Well, since nobody answered the second part of my question, I think either nobody is really interested (which I quite doubt)or there is very, very few people who actually know the answer...! :confused:
     

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