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Progressive Player, help me choose

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Montana, Jan 1, 2004.

  1. Montana

    Montana
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    Hi All,
    I have been let down by two players I had bought recently, these are; A) Toshiba SD530 which had a fantastic PAL picture, but when it came to NTSC, all I can say is the lip-sync was so bad it may as well needed a calender not 100ths of seconds:mad: ; B)Marantz DV4300 which this time had a really good NTSC picture, but I couldn't see any difference in PAL.So as I was looking around for some answers to this, and I came across an article written by John Archer on the WHAT VIDEO and this article said that the player does NOT produce a pure PAL progressive picture.
    So now I am after a player that has pure PAL and NTSC progressive scanning.I am after a player with the best picture quality I can get(good video DAC's),the two players I started with were about £200 so now I am looking at more.The first two I have spotted are the Harman Kardon DVD 25(I compared this to the DVD 30 and the only differences are the audio side, like the DVD-A etc, unless you can tell me different ) and the new Harman Kardon 506 LE.I have looked at the specs etc(not very comprehensive on the HK site) and don't know what the differences are ? As I said earlier the audio side (e.g DVD-A) doesn't concern me to much but the PQ does.I can get a 506 LE for about £250 locally and the DVD 25 for £330, hence my question for the differences.
    If you can think of ANY other players that I should be looking at , and why, please say, as at the moment I am willing to try any player :suicide: .Any and all comments would be most helpful, thanks in advance.

    Andy
     
  2. NeilMcRae

    NeilMcRae
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    Check out the Sony 730 and 930 players - very good progressive in my view.

    Neil.
     
  3. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    506 is a repackaged DVD25 that compliments the 505 and 507 50th anniversary amps, for HK info go to dealer not web.
    also DVD2550 Silver DVD25 at home cinema heaven for £250-60, I think the DACS in 506 may be different to 25 25 has wolfson and 506 Burr browns or something like that!You are right about DVD30, its a 25 with DVD-A and better CD replay.
    Not much else for PAL+NTSC PROG SCAN in budget plenty of NTSC PS players.
     
  4. Montana

    Montana
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    Thanks for the info hornydragon,do you know where I can find a dealer in HK, as the web site doesn't seem to mention how I can find a dealer only a distributer.Have you used or have either of these players ? If so what do you reckon of them compared with my above mentioned players ?
    Lets pretend that I had a bottomless wallet what particular players would you go for(and why) in each jump of £200, going up to the most expensive.This may seem like a pointless exercise , but I would like to be able to guage how good the two HK's would be compared with spending a little more right up to needing a mortgage for one :rotfl: .
    Again, any comments more than welcome.

    Andy
     
  5. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    A guy i know you works for a huge projector company, swapped his DV88 arcam for a DVD25 for use on demo's!
    Sevenoaks do HK as do many specialists,
    I guess its HKDVD25 or 506 then Pioneer 757i, then Denon 2900 then Arcam DV89 then TAG,( bit more than £200 jumps in the last 2
     
  6. Crocodile JD

    Crocodile JD
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    The DVD506LE is not a repackaged dvd25. It has the Burr Brown 24 bit/192 kHz Audio DACs as opposed the Wolfson XWM8740 Delta Sigma 24-bit/192kHz DACs as in to the DV25. Wonder why they changed? It is the reverse of the switch Arcam made in recent times I think.

    I don't know what else might be different, but they are not entirely the same for sure.

    Anyway I'm well pleased with my recent purchase of the DVD2550 (Silver DVD25) £249.99 from Home Cinema Heaven just before Christmas. This is also my second delve into Prog Scan, first time disappointed. Not so this time though :D :clap:

    I had a thread going on the player recently, that you may be interested in here

    Cheers

    Croc
     
  7. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    SO do i take it you like the DVD25 then croc?
     
  8. Crocodile JD

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    I'd say the DVD25 is definately worth serious consideration. I did a bit more tweaking night before last and got the best image yet from my PJ. The extra bit splashed out on a player has saved me a PJ upgrade. :smashin:

    Cheers

    Croc
     
  9. Montana

    Montana
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    Thanks for everyones help on the HK players, I have now bought the DVD 2550, and all I can say is that its is fantastic.The PQ is brilliant on both PAL and NTSC.Thanks to rauer on the EZmenu setting for incorrectly flagged discs as this makes a lot of difference on my Panny 6hd plasma.As everyone else has said the audio side is the great surprise with this player in both CD and DVD.If there are any more helpful hints on the multi region and firmware update that would be helpful, as my machine was already flashed.Can I flash it with another firmware? and where would I get this firmware from ?
    Again many thanks , and thanks in advance for any comments.

    Andy
     
  10. Crocodile JD

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    Why is yours not multi region then, where did you get it from? If it is multi region and as you say it is fantastic, why do you need firmware for it? If it ain't bust...........etc

    Cheers

    Croc
     
  11. Montana

    Montana
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    My player is multi-region Croc , but I was wondering if there was more than one firmware fix, and if there is, which one is better ? There has been one mentioned on HCH (which I think is Home Cinema Heaven ?), and there is a link on the HK web site to a firmware fix as well, again I wonder if they are the same ?
    On a slightly different note, the EZmenu V settings, I have been doing a little testing with the settings, and I have noticed that if the disc menu says progressive, then changing the V settings makes no difference at all, but when it says interlaced setting 2 is the best one to use.I just thought that would be a handy tip for people, so if it says progressive then there is no need to go any further, other than relaxing and enjoying the movie :) .
    If I have made things more confusing with my first paragraph then I will try and re-post it another way :laugh: .
    Many thanks.

    Andy
     
  12. Cool-hand

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    How about a Toshiba sd900e. The forum really rate them highly and I think one is going in the forums ads..... Oh yes thats right, its me selling!?!? :)

    CH
     
  13. Crocodile JD

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    That's why I asked where you got the player from. I got mine from Home Cinema Heaven, they cal their firmware "Sprinter". It works great. If you got your player from them, no need to change it. There was another mentioned in threads a while back, can't remember what though. I'm sure a search on this forum would soon find it.

    On the V settings, the whole point of it is for when in Prog Scan. I'm sure the manual says only effective when in Progressive, I'll check tonight. But it is about how the player reads the flags, all important for Prog scan. I can see a difference in Prog scan V2 is a little sharper. If you freeze frame then stand close to screen and toggle between settings you'll see a very slight change.

    Cheers

    Croc
     
  14. Crocodile JD

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    Not strictly true, appartently it helps when Pal to NTSC (or visa versa ) conversion is taking place as well. The manual says, " V Mode: Some DVD discs currently available contain a video data inconsistency resulting in an unwanted screen artifact. This can occur during video standard conversion as from NTSC to PAL or from Interlaced to Progressive.

    To overcome these artifacts select the 'V' field, ......then change the setting from 0 to either 1 or 2 until the artifacts disappear."

    I have to agree that the difference in Progressive is very subtle, but 2 definately changes things very slightly. Haven't checked in interlaced, but judging by what it says in the manual, if your display is both NTSC and PAL compatable and your output is set to Auto, then no conversion is taking place unless you switch to Progressive. Obviously if you have a PAL only, and you set output to either PAL or PAL60, and you then play an NTSC disc, then a conversion is taking place.

    The manual goes nowhere near rauer's description that it is specifically for incorrectly flagged discs, but rauer got it from the horses mouth, so that must be what HK mean.

    BTW, I think the other firmware might have been off the Apache website, or I think there was an official one on the HK web site at some point, haven't checked either tho. Loads on this if you search on "DVD25 Firmware"

    Cheers

    Croc
     
  15. Montana

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    The only reason I ask about the firmware is because my player ahd already been flashed to make it multi-region.So, is there a way of telling which (if there is any difference between the two, if infact there are two, there maybe just the one ? ? ? ) firmware I currently have on my machine, so if need be I can change it for the better one.Sorry that was a bit long in the tooth.
    As far as the V settings go I have a multi input plasma in the shape of the Panny 6HD, so I have no problem in that score.When you press the info button and the first page(DISC INFO) says interlaced the V settings make a difference(making sure that you have set the machine to progressive output), but if the first info page says progressive then no matter what you do with the V settings it makes no difference at all.I have tried the latter a lot and with a lot of progressive flagged discs, even up to the point of my nose being pressed up against the plasma itself:rotfl: .I think as rauer said, that when a disc is incorrectly flagged you are effectivly forcing it into being a progressive disc, hence why the picture sharpens up dramtically when using setting 2(well thats my understanding of it).If anyone else has some more informed info, I am sure Croc and I would be most grateful :D .
    Many Thanks.

    Andy
     
  16. Crocodile JD

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    It is correct that the V setting makes a difference if the disc info says "interlaced", but it is not because you are in interlaced mode, if you press info again it will tell you that you are outputing progressive. It is likely that when HK say the disc is interlaced, they mean it is flagged (often incorrectly) as video mode and when they say progressive, they mean film mode. When disc is flagged "Interlaced" (i.e. video mode), incorrectly, by selecting V2, the correct film mode or "Progressive" as HK say is forced. More on that in this thread here

    Re: Firmware, where did you buy your player from. I.E. who put your firmware on. If it outputs dual prog and is multi region and there are no screen artifacts, then it is more than likely the correct firmware.

    Cheers

    Croc
     

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