Prog Scan - Will it really make a difference?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by BallisticJack, Jan 20, 2003.

  1. BallisticJack

    BallisticJack
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    Hi,

    I've recently upgraded my home cinema set up to include a 42" Panasonic Plasma (PW5) which, I am lead to believe, can support both NTSC and PAL progressive scan inputs. I already possess a pretty decent DVD player in a Sony DVP-735S (or at least it was two years ago) which I connect to the plasma via component.

    Do you think it would be worth my while replacing the DVD player with a newer model which outputs progessive scan (I have my eye on an Arcam DV88+ )? Will I really notice the difference? Is there anyone else out there who was in a similar situation and made the leap?

    Any responses would be gratefully received.

    Ben
     
  2. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    While not answering your post I was about to post a similar one myself.

    I too am looking at PAL progressive scan players & I am particularly interested in the Arcam DV88 +

    Will the difference between Progressive/Interlaced smack me in the face ?

    Does anyone know any places doing good deals on the Arcam ?

    How does it fair against any other PAL Progressive scan players (Dennon 2800/3800 & Philips 963SA) ?
     
  3. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The D5 has pretty good de-interlacing of NTSC film source material so you might not notice too much difference with that source. For PAL film source stuff, with the correct programme material, you should see a pretty obvious difference. If you don't then don't buy one.

    Go and get your dealer to do the dem adn see what you think.

    I like DV88 but others are nice too.

    Gordon
     
  4. sounddog

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    I'm confused ... I thought there was a bigger difference between progressive and intelaced image from a DVD with NTSC due to the 3:2 pulldown thingymajig than the difference you get with PAL.

    Hope I'm not barking up the wrong tree confusing the issue here.
    Victoria
     
  5. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The Panasonic plasma D5 version has 2:3 detection on board and it's pretty good at it. That's why you aren't going to see that much difference with FILM source DVD's from NTSC. With video source DVD's (ie material which was recorded originally with a video camera rather than a film camera) you may well find the DVD player does a better job.

    PAL: Pal Film source material is transfered to video by
    1, Getting the original 24 frames and splitting each one in to two fields of odd and even lines respectively. That's you got 48. You've still got to get 2 fields from somewhere to get to 50 for our 50Hz refresh. So they just speed the thing up instead.

    A crappy de-interlacer might look at PAL material and put Field1 with Field 2 to create a new progressive frame. Then it might add Field 2 to Field 3 for next progressive frame....DOh! You've just stuck odd lines of one original image with even of previous original image. If there has been any motion between the two you're going to see nasty problems. Good PAL progressive capable devices have 2:2 recognition and buffer the incoming fields, analyse them and then decide which ones are from the same original film frame, then they re-constitute the original film frame and show it twice. Much the same as they would for the 2:3:2:3 sequence of NTSC film source stuff.

    So you can see that although PAL might look easier to do it's just as hard. In fact there are many more devices that do 2:3 than do 2:2...the Panasonic D5 being a case in point.

    Gordon
     
  6. hawkeye

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    just to add my (non-technical) view on things.

    i bought a DV88+, it's connected to a 42" PW4 via component. excellent picture quality, very pleased.

    however i must say , although i haven't done exhaustive comparative testing, i find it difficult to notice a great difference in progressive mode. this may be due to my uneducated eye, who knows.

    the dv88+ is a great player. whether it's worth the £900 or so compared to other (cheaper) options, i'm not sure.

    just my two penn'th..............
     
  7. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Hawkeye,

    If you want to see the sortof difference it's making get Gladiator (battle of carthage), Star Trek Insurrection (OPening scene as pan through village takes place) or any other film where you get pans across straight diagonal lines.

    On Gladiator look at edge of the tiers on the balconies of the forum and the ledges in fron of Caesar when he has to sit down to watch show.

    Insurrection: look at the two canoes on stilts by the river side and then the roofs of the buildings with the tiered edges.

    It should be obvious what is happening if you play these without and then with prog scan from DVD player. If they both look the same something is wrong. These two scenes are extreme in that they have lots of things which de-interlacers can have trouble with in a short space of time. Obvioulsy not all films are like this.

    Gordon
     
  8. chris thomas

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    gordon,,your pm box is full,,,its easier to get hold of president bush m8 :rolleyes:
     
  9. eAvatar

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    I'm also in a simmilar situation, planning on getting a Panny TH-42PW5B and trying to find the best DVD player for ~£300 to go with it.

    I'm currently considering the Philips 963sa mainly because it does PAL progressive. However, I called into Richer Sounds at the weekend and they said they didn't stock Philips DVD players because they've had problems with them.

    Anyone have any idea what they meant, or can reccomend a different DVD player for arround the same price?

    Cheers, Steve.
     
  10. sounddog

    sounddog
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    Gordon ... thanks for the explanation ... not having a Plasma, Projector or any other prog scan device it isn't really relevant ... but is useful to know anyway :))
     
  11. StooMonster

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    Progressive scan DVD makes a huge difference with high resolution plasmas (e.g. 50" Panny5's 1366x768 pixels), but less of a difference with lower resolution screens (e.g. 42PW5's 852x480 pixels) AFAIAA.

    e.g. Hawkeye's quote "i find it difficult to notice a great difference in progressive mode".

    I would get a demo before spending money.

    StooMonster
     
  12. vonhosen

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    I must say the Philips looks good value at about £ 350 (including PAL Progressive scan Faroudja DCDi and all).

    Anybody demo'd this against the Dennon 2800/3800 or Arcam DV88+ ?
     
  13. BallisticJack

    BallisticJack
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    Thanks for all the responses.

    I'll certainly demo the Arcam before deciding whether or not to make the purchase. I'm also been keen on seeing a mid-range prog scan DVD player (circa £500) in action. Can anyone point out which ones are getting good reviews? I'm particularly interested in models which output PAL progressive as all of my DVD collection is currently R2.

    Thanks in advance.

    Ben
     
  14. Jonny1973

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    £308 from www.robertsons-online.co.uk

    I don't think there is enough units for dealers to carry stock just yet so no demos.
     

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