1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

prog rock-should I be worried ?

Discussion in 'Music & Music Streaming Services' started by karkus30, Sep 29, 2003.

  1. karkus30

    karkus30
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,991
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,261
    Lately, more bands are reverting to prog rock. Latest examples are Sikth, Mars Volta amongst the usual suspects, Radiohead, Muse and Tool.

    Now I like prog, I was brought up on a diet of ELP, Yes, Genesis and King Crimson. Then came punk, now, I didnt much care for that when it came out, but I grew into it and the Grunge bands that followed.

    Now I suppose bands like Talking Heads could be loosely called prog crossover, but they were minor on the scale of recent musical enterprises.

    Thing is, bands like ELP fell from favour because their sound had become bloated and lacked any form of passion or so the Press would have us believe :rolleyes:

    Was this true ?
    Why is prog on its way back?
    Are we about to go through the same musical upheavel as the 1970s and 80s?

    These new bands have mixed the sound with everything from death metal to pop and punk, but its still prog, you cant fool me.

    With bands like The Darkness spearheading a return to cock rock, how is that working ?

    Dance is dead..........hmmm..........I think it got integrated into other stuff and has gone underground, but take a listen to The Music for one.

    I cant help feeling guilty for liking this new prog stuff, after all punk and grunge was our saviour, but has this all happened because the choice of music is limited and you get fed a diet of whatever the music industry wants you to digest ?


    Discuss..............
     
  2. Gambit

    Gambit
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    No, you shouldn't, cause I'm on a first time voyage in prog rock waters - I've listened briefly to the above but now I can't get DSOTM out my player, I'm begining to understand , which I've never done before. I take it the Mars Volta is good? I'll be buying it then, but I'll also have to fill in my Flyod back cat, get some King Crimson and smoke more hashish. Joy, especially since I'm skint :rolleyes: All donations to the Gambit Prog Rock Fund
     
  3. karkus30

    karkus30
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,991
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,261
    Yep, Mars Volta sounds good, I havent bought an album yet, same reason as you, expensive furniture stops play.

    Floyd - Wish you were here is probably the definitive album after side of a spoon, but dont miss out on the older stuff, buy Piper at the Gates of Dawn.

    KC..........Court of the Crimson King (when they released 21st C schitzoid man, no one knew quite what to make of it),followed by Red, Larks Tongues in Aspic and Starless and Bible Black are good (in that order). I still like Lizard, but its a bit pompous.

    Yes- get Close To The Edge first ,then, Fragile and The Yes album all great.

    Genesis- Foxtrot should be first on your list.

    ELP- Brain Salad Surgery it was my first introduction to prog, followed swiftly by their self titled first album.

    Dont forget others like Van der Graaf generator ,

    Camel (I can see your house from here has one of the lovliest ,plaintive guitar soloes on it),

    Jethro Tull, PFM and Gryphon (midnight mushrumps anyone?).

    But Im still very concerned at my apparent interest in this music, you at least have an excuse, whats mine??
     
  4. karkus30

    karkus30
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,991
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,261
    I just checked to find out which track from Camels album 'I can see your house from here' and its called ice, its an exceptional piece.

    I saw them perform it live in Liverpool, total audience for the gig was about 100 in a massive venue, they were on the wain by then, Punk had taken over. Some punks at the back spent the whole time jeering and spoiling it for everyone else. When they played Ice, it seemed to transfix the small audience and even the punks went quiet. They played it with such passion.
     
  5. rhoamish

    rhoamish
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I've always felt a bit embarrased about liking prog myself. I've got most of Jethro Tulls earlier stuff, same with Pink Floyd. Court of the Crimson King is great, too. I also like a lot of Julian Cope (not traditional 'prog', but you could describe Autogeddon, Peggy Suicide and Jehovahkill as prog at a pinch).

    Unfortunately, none of my friends share my interest, preferring to mock me mercilessly. My girlfriend seems to like it (or at least pretends to) but on the whole I have to listen to it when I'm on my own, which normally means in the car.

    Should we start a Prog Support Group? We could have a secret handshake, and special hats.
     
  6. rnjones

    rnjones
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Dance is dead.... Long Live ROCK. You should not worry you are right to like Prog Rock.

    Well thats what I think. Even the Sunday Times did a whole page on The Darkness, in the main part of the paper. Basically saying todays "youth" were bored with manufactured Dance and Pop bands and now they wanted escapism and ROCK!

    Well this made my "tuesday breakfast" day.

    I have been into Floyd, Radiohead, a bit of Genesis and other prog stuff for ages. I also like a bit of Thin Lizzy & AC/DC etc.

    The Darkness is a cross between AC/DC, Queen with a bit of Bon Jovi anthems on top.

    So, as suspected it is now cool to be a rock fan again.

    I am now waiting to see if the local Nova (modded 1.1 Spin) boys will swap their dance CDs for metal music and it will be the early 80s again with the Newer Wave of British Heavy Metal 2003 (NWOBHM-03).

    If so a result, I reckon.

    Rog
     
  7. Chrissywis

    Chrissywis
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Messages:
    93
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +0
    Camel are playing three dates in the UK at the end of october. It's their farewell tour, so last chance ever to see them live!
     
  8. karkus30

    karkus30
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,991
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,261
    Precisely what I mean, you have to play it when the lights are off, very very quietly.

    I dont play a lot of the older stuff anymore, the BNWOPM (British new wave of Prog.Music........you heard it here first :D ) takes up my listening time. But I still listen to Close to the Edge on occasion.

    Its strange, but I have never let any of my mates listen to older prog. I just didnt think they would get it...........and Id be mocked, ridiculed and subjected to weeks of abuse. You'd be better off admitting you liked Gareth and Will or that you sometimes wore your wifes knickers of an evening.

    I have always harboured a hope that prog wasnt dead, just hibernating, in particular , King Crimson as they were never really pompous prog just innovative.

    Maybe we are about to see a legion of Moogs and Melotrons
    marching over Johnny Rottens grave.

    Punk ? What was that all about ?
     
  9. Whiting

    Whiting
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2002
    Messages:
    568
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +26
    John Lydon did admit to being a Floyd fan (or at least liking them) despite the "i hate pink floyd" badge he often wore.

    When Radiohead start touring in 5 articulated lorries, each emblazoned with the name of a member of the band across the top, I'll worry...or when we have dubious fantasy artwork adorning the latest double vinyl offering from Muse (complete with 20 min Drum solo on side 3)...

    ....but until then I'll take comfort in the fact that "Paranoid Android" was 6 years ago and Muse are so Progressive, they've progressed beyond the 1970's into early 1900's with their Rachmaninov obsession.

    Aren't The Orb or Aphex Twin the new Prog anyway, or am I 10 years out of date ?
     
  10. karkus30

    karkus30
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,991
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,261
    Shades of the Buggles then, thats what finally killed prog. Murdered by fashion. Trouble is they killed the progression without knowing where it would progress to, subtle irony at work there.

    Have to sleep on it. :boring:
     
  11. CrispyXUK

    CrispyXUK
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    3,714
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Land of the Living, Essex
    Ratings:
    +33
    If only prog rock wasnt so addictive, then maybe I could stop singing "Ambition makes you look pretty ugly, Kicking Squeeling Gucci Little Piggy" every day :D
     
  12. Nobber22

    Nobber22
    Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,977
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Berkshire
    Ratings:
    +109
    Don't know where you live Rog, but the Nova boys round my way have been pumping out Hip-Hop, not Dance the last few years.

    At the risk of being called racist, I am delighted that the young White girls and boys these days aren't trying to "be Black" anymore. No more baggy trousers hanging below your hips, backwards baseball caps on, trying to be "Homies" and thinking you are driving through South Central L.A., ghetto/gun rap tunes blaring out the Saxo/Nova. Enough already!

    Get back to your roots: Rock is what your White parents were almost certainly listening to when they met, got drunk, had a shag and made you! :clap: Embrace your own culture now. :cool:
     
  13. rnjones

    rnjones
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Nobber, you may have got me there. Not sure I am hip enough to tell Hip Hop from Dance from R&B from Garage as the Nova motors past at speedy 33mph (they think they are going faster).

    Basically it all sounds like easy listening music to me. Just like your Gran would listen to.

    Anyway now Rock is back I could be hip again?

    Err probably not.

    Rog
     
  14. adox

    adox
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2002
    Messages:
    688
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    dublin
    Ratings:
    +0
    what a blinkered attitude to have. if we all took that attitude we would all be culturaly enemic. your presumptions about what people listen to is sad
     
  15. Nobber22

    Nobber22
    Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,977
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Berkshire
    Ratings:
    +109
    Sorry Adox (and others) I guess I am being a bit rude about what music people want to listen to. I don't like Rap, Hip-Hop, etc, but that is no excuse to for me to tell others what to listen to. :blush:
     
  16. dfield2000

    dfield2000
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Messages:
    957
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Ratings:
    +5
    ..same here, but that Mars Volta album is superb ! I think it's time to hold my head up high and admit I'm a prog rocker.

    I'm surprised people are talking about Muse being prog rock though - what qualities do they have which defines them as prog ?
     
  17. Whiting

    Whiting
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2002
    Messages:
    568
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +26
    It's that sticker on the front of "Origin Of Symmetry"...the one that says "Parental Advisory - Progressive Content"
     
  18. karkus30

    karkus30
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,991
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,261
    Im not sure what defines prog. Prog is just Prog. thats in relation to groups of the past.

    Its music that goes beyond the single tempo concept, beyond the staight verse chorus verse concept, it verges on classical music in style if not content, its usually multi layered and complex and your unlikely to want to get up and dance to it. If any one wants to add further definitions..feel free.

    Its not an exclusive style of music, it gets combined with all sorts of other styles, but prog. beats at the heart of the music.........its as if those bands are embarassed about including it, so they dress it up with metal and rap etc.


    Help me Im a proggy :laugh:
     
  19. dfield2000

    dfield2000
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Messages:
    957
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Ratings:
    +5
    I like your definition - pretty spot on.

    But that said, I wouldn't say that it applies to Muse. Aren't they in the verse-chorus-verse camp ?
     
  20. Hawklord

    Hawklord
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    3,432
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Aldershot, Hampshire
    Ratings:
    +260
    I've always liked prog rock but haven't been listening to much of it lately and thought it extinct. I have no qalms about admitting I like it (I'll even admit to being an avid hawkwind fan-lol) and even listened to the likes of IQ, Pallas as well as the well known bands like Genesis, floyd etc.

    What modern albums do you all recomend as I'm willing to fan the flames and rekindle my interest in this genre?
     
  21. karkus30

    karkus30
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,991
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,261
    I dont think so, the first album was close to being rock in the same way as Radioheads Bends, but later albums have become more complex and therefore proggy.

    This also happened with Yes, King Crimson and ELP, started more rock based and steadily changed songs into mini classical pieces.
    Muse are definitely in that league now, theres moments of rock, but its mostly proggy.
     
  22. karkus30

    karkus30
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,991
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,261
    Sikth- 'The trees are dead and dried out, wait for something wild'

    Radiohead-'OK Computer'

    Tool-'Lateralus'

    Muse-'Absolution'
     
  23. dfield2000

    dfield2000
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Messages:
    957
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Ratings:
    +5
    ...and also 'The Mars Volta - deloused in the comatorium'
     
  24. Gambit

    Gambit
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Two outta 4, with the Skith album comin aroud christmas when I'm solvent again. I love Lateralus with a fierce passions, and OK Computer just IS the album. I've a proggie too. Hi, my name's Gambit and I listen to Rock. Prog Rock. Loud.

    Does that mean I'm in the club now?
     
  25. karkus30

    karkus30
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,991
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,261
    Not till you've listened to Brain Salad Surgery, Close to the Edge and Court of the Crimson King. You already have a pass in DSOTM so your 25% there.
     
  26. Whiting

    Whiting
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2002
    Messages:
    568
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +26
    There's a review of a YES retrospective in this month's Q which (quoting) "showboats operatic rock (so far, so Muse, Radiohead et al)"...

    ...but otherwise I'd not really class Muse as Prog Rock.

    For me, they were one of the first bands I remember getting front covers on both the NME and Kerrang! which seemed to represent the blending of musical boundaries....are they metal or are they indie ? (no hint of prog). This was followed by are they Rap or are they Rock (the beasties, Ice-T, er, limp bizkit ?)....

    ...and ultimately, are they Prog or are they (e.g.) Ambient ? I maintain that "Adventures Beyond The UltraWorld" is closest I've heard to a mainstream acceptance of (a form of) Progressive Rock in recent years.
     
  27. CrispyXUK

    CrispyXUK
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2003
    Messages:
    3,714
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Land of the Living, Essex
    Ratings:
    +33
    I wouldn't tell radiohead that "OK Computer" is Prog Rock or they might make the karma police rain down from a great height :)
     
  28. Spligsey

    Spligsey
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2003
    Messages:
    2,069
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +137
    A true classic if ever there was one.

    Adz
     
  29. dfield2000

    dfield2000
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Messages:
    957
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Ratings:
    +5
    ...true, and don't forget that Pulse should be out on DVD soon, which should include the whole live set of Dark Side.

    an essential part of your education for all you fledgling proggies.
     
  30. KRRK

    KRRK
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Spock's Beard.

    Just thought I'd throw that in, as no-one seems to have mentioned them, and you sad old men with ale flagons and beards (yes, you know who you are) will probably get hard listening to them.

    *fine band, though. :D
     

Share This Page

Loading...