1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Processor Upgrade

Discussion in 'AV Pre-Amp/Processors & Power Amps' started by powder40, Jan 21, 2003.

  1. powder40

    powder40
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Has anybody ugraded a Yamaha DSP E 800 processor and what processors and price ranges would you suggest me looking at.
     
  2. sounddog

    sounddog
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,373
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    107
    Location:
    Leicestershire, UK
    Ratings:
    +461
    Well surely it all depends on your needs and budget, etc.

    If you just want the latest features (PLII, DTS-ES, DD-EX, etc) without spending too much money ... then take a look at a low end AV Amp - a Marantz SR4300, Yamaha AX630, etc - with pre-outs. Connect this in place of your Yamaha E800.

    If you're looking at going up market ... then the same comments people make generally reguarding AV processors / power amps. This route starts with Rotel 1060 moving on slightly to the Cyrus AV8, then you get the Tag AVR32, Arcam AV8, Tag AV192, Meridian 568.2, Lexicon 8, various Bryson, Krell and other manufacturers and leading to the ultimate of the Meridian Reference 800 and Lexicon 12 (this is meant as a general price and performance scale ... and i don't include specifics for Bryson, Krell and many others cause I don't know).

    Anyway ... as I say ... it's all down to your budget, what you want, what kind of room it's in, what speakers you have.

    If you just want the lastest features, without spending too much money, check out the SR4300 and similar, and work your way up the price range from there.


    Victoria
     
  3. Phil_Yeoman

    Phil_Yeoman
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2002
    Messages:
    185
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Durham
    Ratings:
    +1
    As Victoria says you a a vast amount of quality kit out their and the only limiting factor is your budget.

    If you would like a little push in the write direction you will need to list your current setup, budget and requirements so that we give this discussion a little focus

    Phil
     
  4. powder40

    powder40
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    My current set up is Denon 2800 mk2 DVD player. Musical Fidelity A 308 Intergrated Amp (powering the fronts) Yamaha DSP E800 processor ProAc Sc Ones (Main Speakers) ProAc Model 1 (Centre Speaker) Kef (Rears) Velodyne CHT 10 (Sub). My question is how much do I spend on a processor to notice a big difference in sound compared to the Yam. I might consider a buget of say £1,500. Any suggestions.
     
  5. magking

    magking
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2001
    Messages:
    378
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Norway
    Ratings:
    +1
    Here is a suggestion: Denon AVC A11SR.
    All the features you can get at the moment (except sound delay for p-scan)
    I have it and love it.
     
  6. powder40

    powder40
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The Denon's an amp I won't be able to conect it to my Musical Fidelity to drive the fronts will I.
     
  7. russraff

    russraff
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2000
    Messages:
    2,315
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Ratings:
    +51
    As Victoria said, you run the pre outs of the Denon, or any other AV amp, and use an input on the Musical Fidelity.

    Just hook up the 2800 to the "CD in" and the front outs to your MF amp. Use a digital out from the 2800 to an AV amp. That way you get the most flexibility using the kit you already have.

    Russell
     
  8. powder40

    powder40
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I already have a cd player connected to the cd in on the Musical Fidelity can I use any other inputs
     
  9. Phil_Yeoman

    Phil_Yeoman
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2002
    Messages:
    185
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Durham
    Ratings:
    +1
    The MF 308 is an excellent amp but maybe slightly out of place in an AV setup. I may be having a dumb day but what powers the center and rears?

    Ingnoring this for a minute i would have to say that your current system, although very good for audio reproduction may lack control when it come to imaging.

    As magking says the Denon AVC A11SR would be a vast improvemrnt over you current processor/ amp. You would drive all the speakers form the denon and remove the MF to a place of honour in a dedicated Hi-Fi setup.

    Other amps in or near you price range are the Yamaha AZ1 which has all the power you will need and is exceptional good with dynamic movie scores. these retail over £2k but you can find them cheeper if you look.

    How much diffrence will notice? Well all audio is subjective but I would venture to say that the difference will definitly bring a smile to your face

    Phil
     
  10. russraff

    russraff
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2000
    Messages:
    2,315
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Ratings:
    +51
    In that case, forget about the analog connections from your 2800, and just hook up the digi-out to whatever AV amp you might want. The AV amp pre-outs should be ok with any "normal" input on your MF. Something like Aux or AV or something. I am not sure about tape loop inputs as I haven't used them. Dont use the Phono input, should you have one.

    Russell
     
  11. sounddog

    sounddog
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,373
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    107
    Location:
    Leicestershire, UK
    Ratings:
    +461
    Phil ... the E800 has amps for the rear and centre speakers.

    With a budget of around £1500 ... I'd take a look at the Rotel RSP1066 processor and either RMB1066 or RMB1075 power amps. Listen to both with and without your MF308 powering the fronts - especially with music. A similar priced processor (but the power amps would probably be more) would be the Cyrus AV8.

    I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the Rotel and will be (IMO) a lot better than either a Denon or Yamaha for stereo ... maybe even good enough that you don't worry with using the MF308 along with it. I don't think the same could be said using the Denon AVC A11SR or the Yamaha AZ1 (or the Pioneer AX10 for that matter). From my experience ... the only integrated AV amp that may come close may be the Marantz SR9200 which can be had for arround £1400 if you look in the right place.

    The Rotel (with the RMB1075) amp may be a little over your budget ... but if it's good enough you can always sell your MF integrated amp.


    Victoria
     
  12. powder40

    powder40
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    A Yamaha DSP E 800 powers centre and rears. I agree my Musical Fidelity should just be for my music. but with space and other factors an issue I'm looking for something good that I can hook up to my MF. Something else is to use a Denon to power all the speakers and just unplug the speaker cable from the MF to my main speakers when using the AV amp. Does this sound crazy.
     
  13. Phil_Yeoman

    Phil_Yeoman
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2002
    Messages:
    185
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Durham
    Ratings:
    +1
    Woops didn't spot the E800 outputs sorry!

    Victoria why would anyone want to get rid of the MF, its a great amp. Yet again i find myself agreeing with you re: the Rotel in stereo. But (yes there is always a but):) its horses for courses. powder40 already has a stereo amp than can sink the Rotel by a large margin. What he really needs here is a large lump of AV metal to really get those 5 speakers singing.

    If I were you I would do what you sugest and switch the fronts between the MF and a integrated AV amp. I have both integrated and processor/power setups and at the £1500 mark you would, in my opiion get a lot better setup with the ingerated approach

    As always try to audition at home using your own setup. my shortlist would include

    Denon AVC A11SR
    Yamy AZ1
    Rotel RSP1066 processor and power amp

    and if your budget can stretch the Pioneer AX10

    the marantz stuff is short on sheer grunt but if you like a more laid back sound give it a wirl

    Phil
     
  14. sounddog

    sounddog
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,373
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    107
    Location:
    Leicestershire, UK
    Ratings:
    +461
    To be honest I've never heard the MF amp (or any MF amps for that matter) but it was Phil who said "The MF 308 is an excellent amp but maybe slightly out of place in an AV setup." and I wondered from the original posters, erm ... original post and subsequent things ... that maybe he would like an easier to use, more integrated system.

    I tried in my most not to say "get rid of the MF amp" ... but more, try the Rotel and see what you think ... and maybe you feel that you can get rid of it as the Rotel does everything you want / need.

    If you do want to use the two amps with one set of front speakers you have 2 options ... first is to use the pre-out from the AV amp into the stereo amp and then adjust levels as necessary. Alternatively you can switch the speakers as you have already sugested ... this can be done completely manually, or QED (and probably others) do speaker switch boxes - you must make sure the switch box is of the A OR B box ... not the A OR B OR A+B type.


    Victoria
     
  15. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2001
    Messages:
    3,096
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Ratings:
    +69
    Phil.

    Real nice kit.

    Steve
     
  16. robfitzp

    robfitzp
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,162
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Bristol
    Ratings:
    +20
    Powder40,

    I use a Primare A30.1 hifi amp for music and a denon 3801 for AV use. Connect the preouts for the front channels of the AV amp to any set of inputs (except a phono stage) on the hifi amp. Gives best of both worlds, no need to unplug speaker cable etc at all.

    Don't get rid of your MF amp - pretty much all AV amps / processors are poor in stereo unless you spend a lot more than £1500.

    Cheers
    Rob.
     
  17. Phil_Yeoman

    Phil_Yeoman
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2002
    Messages:
    185
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Durham
    Ratings:
    +1
    Call me crazy but I would not even consider using an AV amp as a preamp for the MF. All components and switches introduce their own flavour into the sound.

    It may be eaiser to go the av switching route but an amp as good as the MF will highlight the AV processors sound caracteristics.

    Phil
     
  18. sounddog

    sounddog
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,373
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    107
    Location:
    Leicestershire, UK
    Ratings:
    +461
    /me bows my head in shame.

    Okay ... I've only just realised what high level the MF 308 integrated amp is ... I don't think that any AV processor / power amp combination is likely to give similar performance so whatever you do don't get rid of the MF 308 :))

    Having said that ... I did notice that the MF 308 has a "Home theatre direct input" which (and I quote "this input is switched direct to the power amp by pressing the Aux 2 button and allows the A308 integrated to be made the heart of a home theatre or multi-channel system" which would be great for use with either a Rotel or Cyrus processor with a RMB1066 or RMB1075 powering the centre and rears, or with a Denon / Pioneer / Marantz / Yamaha integrated amp (using pre-outs into the MF 308).

    Of course all stereo music sources would be connected directly to the MF 308.


    Victoria
     
  19. powder40

    powder40
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Buy the way how much is this Denon AV amp and does anybody know who is doing it at a good price.
     
  20. sounddog

    sounddog
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,373
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    107
    Location:
    Leicestershire, UK
    Ratings:
    +461
    Just looked at www.avland.co.uk and they have the Denon A11SR for £1799 ... which incidentally they also have the Rotel RSX1065.

    Victoria
     
  21. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,896
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    £1299 from www.krishav.co.uk but put it through ukpricerunner also,just to be sure.
    Also watch out for imports on which Denon have been a bit cagey about warranties.
     
  22. powder40

    powder40
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    So Phil the bottom line is what processors would you consider linking to the MF instead of the Yam E800 and as a major upgrade.
     
  23. alexs2

    alexs2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    13,896
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,674
    The MF is indeed a good amp,and as for processors it depends on your budget....The Tag AV30R is about £1800,the AV32R upwards of £2.6k with the Arcam AV8 coming in around £3k,and then the Lexicons,Brystons and Krells above that(substantially!).
    The new Cyrus processor is about £1000 if I remember,but only has 5 channels and isnt upgradeable.
     
  24. sounddog

    sounddog
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,373
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    107
    Location:
    Leicestershire, UK
    Ratings:
    +461
    Also the Rotel is around £1000 and the Cyrus is £1200 I believe. I think I read somewhere that they are going to do an upgrade for 7 channel at a later date, and they're also doing a 5.1 input for SACD, etc. Also the old AV5 can be upgraded to the AV8 so thats a good sign that they are upgradable in the futre - in fact the upgrade prices are on www.cyrus.co.uk


    Victoria
     
  25. powder40

    powder40
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    So what are people's opinion on the Tag heard one a couple of years ago and was well impressed. And I have read they are pretty much future proof . The good thing is I'm in no rush to upgrade so I'll weigh up all the options and hopefully make the right decision
     
  26. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    6,046
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +664
    The Cyrus AV8 (5-channel processor/preamp) is £1100, and it is upgradeable - or at least Cyrus have announced that there will be upgrades. It's very good value for what it is - you probably won't get much better unless you can afford a Naim AV2 (about £2200) or maybe a Tag AV30R, although there are various other possibilities - Rotel, Myryad, Primare, Roksan Caspian. The likes of the Arcam AV8, Tag AV32R, Meridian 568 and so on are another step up in quality, but you're starting to talk quite serious money there. (You might be able to get a good deal on a Tag AV32R if you don't care about having 7 channels and you don't need a 5.1 analogue bypass).

    Devices such as the Denon A11SR or 3803(or higher-end versions like the Denon A1SR and Pioneer AX10) contain both processing and amplification. If you have two channels worth of amplifier right now then you'll obviously need something to drive the other three speakers.
     
  27. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    6,046
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +664
    The Tag AV32R is highly upgradeable, the AV30R substantially less so. Some people feel that the AV32R sounds a bit "cold" or "analytical" compared to other processors (by contrast something like the Arcam AV8 is much"warmer").
     
  28. powder40

    powder40
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    How did you say the Denon would connect to my MF (is it similar to the way the Yam is) and will the processing sound better than the Yam (with DVD playback)
     
  29. Phil_Yeoman

    Phil_Yeoman
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2002
    Messages:
    185
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Durham
    Ratings:
    +1
    Powder40

    I can't stress enough how much your amp is out of place in an AV setup. It kinda like racing a jag on a dirt track, shes got class but in this class she's not going to beat the suberu.

    The requirements for a good AV amp are "entirly" differnt from that of a Hi-Fi amp this is why no matter how much you pay for an av setup it can't match a moderatly price Hi-Fi setup.

    My HT cann't come close to my Hi-Fi setup when it comes to clasical music or rock and the Hi-Fi costs only a fraction of the price.

    The very things that make your amp sing with music "light handleing of midrange and treble coupled with a warm bass" are not what you need when watching jurasic park. Here you want fast attack bass with forcefull midrange. In the end when the TRex roars you want the hairs on the back of your neck to stand up rather than have the urge to go give it a cuddle :)

    Again its you money but if you want to rid yourself of a cuddly TRex leave your MF out of your AV setup

    Phil
     
  30. powder40

    powder40
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Phil if you had a buget of say 2 grand leaving my MF out of things which way would you go about things(Remember one listening room and one pair of main speakers)
     

Share This Page

Loading...