Question Processor to add to Arcam Alpha 10 - Nakamichi AV1?

lmccauley

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Processor to add to Arcam Alpha 10 - Nakamichi AV1?

I currently have an Arcam Alpha 10 stereo amp with DAVE processing board + 10P3 power amp, driving 3 x M&K S85 speakers (and a SVS sub). It has served me well for 15+ years, but I have problems with the processing of some Blurays, and I don't have enough digital inputs for all my connected devices (and my TV only outputs 2 channel from devices plugged into it via HDMI).

So, I have a budget of around £500. When I started looking, this didn't seem to be enough for a decent processor, so I started considering Receivers with pre-outs. The Yamaha RXV777 looked promising. Recently, however, I've seen a couple of threads pop up about the Nakamichi AV1 for only £200 - bargain!

So, I'm wondering if the AV1 and Arcam Alpha 10P3 power amp will be a good combination.

I do listen to music via analogue inputs, as well as watch TV & movies through this amp, so I also want to know whether that is likely to be noticeably worse.

Any opinions on whether it's worth replacing the Alpha 10/DAVE with the AV1?
 
You have a few choices

1) Add the AV1 to your Arcam 10 Dave/10P3, taking L/R pre-out into Arcam input, so using the Arcam for L/R, so have to switch inputs and set volume level everytime.
2) Take out the Arcam 10 integrated totally but that means you need power amplifiers
3) Add AV1 like 1) but use the Arcam 10 integrated as a power amplifier.

1 & 3 may seem similar but 1) is connecting up stereo sources to the Arcam, ie CD player. 3) Is everything is plugged into the Nak, and only using the Arcam 10 as a power amp, using power in.
 
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In that case, sell the Arcam, get the Nakamichi and a three channel power amplifier. Cheapest 3 channel is a older Rotel RMB-993. There's also the Emotiva XPA-3, ATI 1803.

Or you could get the Nakamichi AVP1, at £400 it's so affordable nothing else at that price, even for a 2 channel £400 great value for money.

Any reason why only 3.1 not 5.1 or 7.1?
 
Well, I was planning on keeping the Arcam 10P3 (which is a 3 channel power amp), as it drives my M&K just fine.

As for why 3.1 - I started back in the 80's with 2.0 (i.e. a stereo), then went DPL, then DD 5.1, then I had to take the two rear speakers down for decorating, and found that I didn't really miss them. In my new house I haven't bothered putting them up. I would be happy with 2.1, but I have 3 identical front speakers, so might as well stick with 3.1.
 
ah right getting confused, I thought the Arcam 10 Dave included inside the case three channels, I forgot ARcam had a dedicated 3 channel amp.

So yeah sell off the ARcam 10 integrated, get Nak AV1 and use the Arcam 3 channel power amplifier.

I suppose the Nak is so cheap it's not too costly if you decide to sell it off.

I'm considering changing from Lexicon MC-8 V2 to Nak AV/AVP1, to finish off the ATI 2003 to a 7 channel replacing two Audiolab SX's.

Just unsure of Nak sound quality
 
Just unsure of Nak sound quality

I didn't think that the sound quality was bad at all when I briefly had mine (AV1P processor); maybe even on a par with my AV8. However it's niggles and quirks that did it for me and I'm not convinced that they have improved reading the threads, despite the good customer service. If you're the kind of person who can put up with tweaking a home cinema computer, then maybe you'd be OK, but if you just expect things to work without glitches, then IMHO look elsewhere.
 
A great shame, the combination such great value- seems both pre and power have bugs or QC issues humming/buzzing/ground loop.
 
In that case, sell the Arcam, get the Nakamichi and a three channel power amplifier. Cheapest 3 channel is a older Rotel RMB-993. There's also the Emotiva XPA-3, ATI 1803.

Or you could get the Nakamichi AVP1, at £400 it's so affordable nothing else at that price, even for a 2 channel £400 great value for money.

Any reason why only 3.1 not 5.1 or 7.1?

I went from a 993 to the Nak and it certainly doesn't sound any worse. The combination I swapped (Onkyo 818 and 993) isn't as good as the AV1 and AV1P but obviously it cannot be quantified on a component basis. I also never had the 993 working in anger on the 802s with music which would have really told me how good it was in comparison with the Nak which I did try one day.
 
What can I say? I had mine a week and had various issues with it, so I sent it back under distance selling regs. They were very good though and no problems getting the refund. People are falling over themselves about it mainly because it is cheap, but IMHO that isn't the only criteria when choosing equipment.
 
What can I say? I had mine a week and had various issues with it, so I sent it back under distance selling regs. They were very good though and no problems getting the refund. People are falling over themselves about it mainly because it is cheap, but IMHO that isn't the only criteria when choosing equipment.

It's not the only criteria but what else can you get for 200 quid that is anywhere near as proficient at what it does? My friend who is a complete luddite can work his! I had to run the EQ for him but apart from that its easy.
 
It's not the only criteria but what else can you get for 200 quid that is anywhere near as proficient at what it does? My friend who is a complete luddite can work his! I had to run the EQ for him but apart from that its easy.

I'm not saying it's hard to use; mine had a number of issues that just made using it a pain regardless of how cheap it was. HDMI picture issues, random switching off, the lack of knowing exactly what master volume setting equates to reference level and worst of all we suspect that it was the cause of the channel failing on my P7 due to a DC output issue. IIRC there were other issues too, but lost in the mists of time...

This £200 'bargain' has cost me £300 in repairs to the P7 (fair enough I've had some other work done replacing all the capacitors, but even so I probably wouldn't have had it done otherwise).
 
I'm not saying it's hard to use; mine had a number of issues that just made using it a pain regardless of how cheap it was. HDMI picture issues, random switching off, the lack of knowing exactly what master volume setting equates to reference level and worst of all we suspect that it was the cause of the channel failing on my P7 due to a DC output issue. IIRC there were other issues too, but lost in the mists of time...

This £200 'bargain' has cost me £300 in repairs to the P7 (fair enough I've had some other work done replacing all the capacitors, but even so I probably wouldn't have had it done otherwise).

Ouch! That is pretty bad!

It is annoying not having a relative volume mode to be honest
 
Maybe I got a lemon, but it has soured me towards another. I don't comment on the official threads as Ian seems to be trying hard to resolve issues, but elsewhere I think it's fair game.

I'm now using a stop gap Arcam AV8 (£65 off the classifieds) and apart from only being able to use 'core' DTS, it sounds blooming marvellous and critically it works exactly as it should. Of course in the meantime I've got another Lumagen so that does the HDMI switching anyway. When I buy a new Atmos/DTS:X processor next year I hope that I can find something as good operationally (and as good in straight stereo) as the AV8. I may have to pay more than £200 though...
 
£65 for an AV8! Moved on my AV9 just in time then. Though I guess the AV888 I got Will have dropped a lot more too by now.
 
I sold my AV9 about 18 months ago for around £400 IIRC. I missed the sound as I had an Onkyo 818 AVR used as a pre amp instead, but never really got on with it. I missed out on a black AV9 going cheap, so I put up a wanted advert...

It has a scratched volume dial and is silver (I'd prefer black to match everything else), but otherwise it is spotless and works perfectly. The only thing was that the firmware was very out of date when I got it so it didn't have Dolby PLIIx available. Once I installed the latest firmware I got PLIIx as an option and the speaker level increments allow 0.5db steps rather than just 1.0dB.

I'm not 100% sure I'll go Atmos myself since I wasn't massively moved by it at a recent demo: I have my side surround and surround backs high up, so the novelty of hearing sounds above me wasn't the draw it seemed to be with others that were there. Plus I'm using fully matching S150T at the sides which really helps to blend with the fronts creating a 'bubble' of sound.

I could be tempted to pick up a used AV888 in the future if the prices drop down enough to tempt me. It just depends on what AV processors come out with Atmos/DTS:X by next year.
 
I sold my AV9 about 18 months ago for around £400 IIRC. I missed the sound as I had an Onkyo 818 AVR used as a pre amp instead, but never really got on with it. I missed out on a black AV9 going cheap, so I put up a wanted advert...

It has a scratched volume dial and is silver (I'd prefer black to match everything else), but otherwise it is spotless and works perfectly. The only thing was that the firmware was very out of date when I got it so it didn't have Dolby PLIIx available. Once I installed the latest firmware I got PLIIx as an option and the speaker level increments allow 0.5db steps rather than just 1.0dB.

I'm not 100% sure I'll go Atmos myself since I wasn't massively moved by it at a recent demo: I have m, so the novelty of hearing sounds above me wasn't the draw it seemed to be with others that were there. Plus I'm using fully matching S150T at the sides which really helps to blend with the fronts creating a 'bubble' of sound.

I could be tempted to pick up a used AV888 in the future if the prices drop down enough to tempt me. It just depends on what AV processors come out with Atmos/DTS:X by next year.
I keep looking at the prepro section with interest but my AV888 will be in place for the next 5 years I expect, if it works ok (still has 18 months warranty on it). I only just went from 5.1 to 7.1 as I found matching PMC Wafer 1s in silver - my side surround and surround backs are high up too.

Back on topic - In terms of the OPs query, if I had my AV9 still I would have ordered the Nak prepro to try in my system, at £200 why not. I know it did not work out for Kelvin but he returned it. It has been more than fine for many others.
 
Your 10P3, are all 3 channels identifcal audio quality wise?
 
The Arcam Alpha 10P is a 3 channel power amplifier, 100W per channel.
 
I was just checking they didn't do somethign strange with the 3rd channel.

I assume its the same insides as the 2 channel version, with the 3rd channel bolted on. If the channels share a transformer, there could have been workarounds to avoid maxing it.
 
Possibly a larger power supply? Specs and pictures probably pretty rare, unless you just happen to have a Alpha 10P and 10P3 in your rack
 
A great shame, the combination such great value- seems both pre and power have bugs or QC issues humming/buzzing/ground loop.


I've just partnered the Nak-pre/pro with a couple of pro amps after coming from the onkyo nr3008 receiver , And i think its fair to say that the Nak is much smoother sounding and has a good open soundstage and dynamics.

My front 3 speakers are now getting 225w instead of around 60 / 70w from my old receiver and my rears are getting a 120w each (7.2) i'm very pleased with the outcome although i've seen / heard others who have issues with it.
 
I was just checking they didn't do somethign strange with the 3rd channel.

I assume its the same insides as the 2 channel version, with the 3rd channel bolted on. If the channels share a transformer, there could have been workarounds to avoid maxing it.
Yes, it's exactly that. The recommendation is to use the two channels of the 10 for front L/R, the centre channel of the 10P for front C, and the other two channels of the 10P for rear L/R. That's what I'm doing - except I don't have any rears, so the 10P is purely driving the centre speaker, and the 10 is driving front L & R.

Having thought about it, I'll probably stick with what I have for now. Disposable income is a bit short since the baby arrived, and we learned that there would be no bonus at work this year.

Thanks everyone for your comments - they've been very helpful.
 

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