1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

processor and amp decision (tag/av8/rotel/???)

Discussion in 'AV Pre-Amp/Processors & Power Amps' started by kryten, May 21, 2003.

  1. kryten

    kryten
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2003
    Messages:
    515
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Swindon
    Ratings:
    +14
    My Yamaha DSP-A1 has just died, so I need to replace it and want a processor/power combo.

    I have Dyn Contour 1.3MkII at the front, with an Audience 122 Centre and 52 rears. Sub is a REL Strata 3. DVD player is Pioneer 757AI.

    I was really hoping to wait a few months until I could pay cash for exactly what I wanted, but I've borrowed an AV50 to keep me going while I decide what to do and may manage to shuffle the finances around to get the upgrade now as need has arisen.

    I'd narrowed my options for a processor down to the following:
    Rotel 1066 (don't think the new 1098 is out yet)
    Arcam AV8
    Tag AV32Rbp192 (with 5.1 bypass, maybe even the dual sharc version)

    Now, a mate has the 1066 and its good (especially on music, when compared to the A1), but I would assume either of the others would be a fair step up. The question is _what_ differences am I likely to hear for the extra cash? TAG have a proven upgrade record and I nearly bought an A10/DAVE when first released instead of the A1.

    As for poweramp, due to hearing problems, I don't usually listen at anything near reference levels, so I'm not sure how far up the power ladder I need to go! I quite like Arcam amps, but the P7 seems overkill as I'll never be using all 7 channels, though I guess I could get a separate 3 channel + 2 channel pair. Rotel's 1075/1095 seem to get good writeups, but due to the fact I don't need massive volume (and the fact that the Dyns at 4 ohms will allow the amp to produce more power anyway) I'm not sure if I'll get much benefit from the bigger, more expensive version.

    I'm hoping to get into my dealer in the next week or so (who, having flogged me the Dyns and 757 in the last month, is going to think its Christmas) but demoing everything is going to be difficult, and they no longer stock TAG stuff in the local branch. I'm sure I can get a home demo, but really need to narrow things down to one or two definite options before I get to that stage.

    The system will be used for TV watching (from Sky+), so I'm expecting DPL II to be used extensively. DVDs will be watched a fair amount. I've just bought a load of DVD-A and SACD discs and had already started going back through my CD collection since the Dyns arrived so the system really needs to master all things, though if there was one issue with the A1 I'm looking to improve it was its musical abilities.

    Price band, as you can probably gather is fairly flexible and doesn't necessarily have a maximum as such, though I also see no need to spend the maximum amount just because its available.

    So all suggestions, comments, additions and listening notes welcome!!
     
  2. TT9

    TT9
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Greetings,

    As you are looking to improve your musical abilities, I would just say do not underestimate the contribution had from the power amp - its not at all about volume. To give you an example I had the AV32R/100x5R combination, and musically I found it very weak. In fact I was ashamed to admit to the guys that they were listening to the best part of a £5000 system when they would come round. I have posted in detail about this before but to summarise I replaced said power amp with a Bryston 4BSST for stereo duties. The difference was stunning. It is a completely different system musically and blows the socks off just about everything else I have heard, save ridiculous priced Mark Levinson, Theta, Krell and the like. It is fantastic, please go and audition one.

    I recall when I auditioned my system originally and I was not impressed at all musically with the Rotels, not with expectations anyhow. Jeez, I even rated the 100x5R over them.

    I've not had as much time auditioning processors but from my own experience and other forum posters, the Tag can more than hold its own. If you want to look at other options, consider the Bryston SP1.7 which I believe in a noticeable step up the sonic ladder. NicholasB will tell you all about Brystons !!

    Whatever, for this kind of money you really have got to audition and find what works for you. Best of luck with your search.

    Regards,
    Steve.
     
  3. ChrisNic

    ChrisNic
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,697
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Thame
    Ratings:
    +62
    Ive recently bought the rotel combo, it is certainly a step above intergrated recievers at around £1000 but I didnt listen to anything more expensive. Ive has them a few weeks now and im really pleased with the sound of them but the build isnt amazing not quite what I would expect for the money-daft things like a wobbly power button on the processor (they all have it), rubbery feeling volume knob (that does free up) and the buttons on the front arent amazing. If your budget is flexible than you may want to spend a bit more, maybe trying a more expensive processor with the rotel amp, quite a lot of people seem to do this.
     
  4. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,804
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +520
    Heh, my reputation precedes me. ;)

    One thing to say right off the bat is that you're covering a heck of a wide range of budgets, there. A Rotel combination will come to maybe £2.5K. An Arcam AV8/P7 is £5.5K. A dual-SHARC Tag will take you higher still. That's two completely different price and performance brackets. Going to (say) a Bryston SP1.7 and 9B-SST amp takes you up to a list price of over £8K.

    But my main concern is that I don't think your speakers are really up to it. As a very approximate guide, the amount of money that you spend on processor and amp should be roughly similar to what you spend on the front three speakers. You've got, what, about £1600 worth of front speakers there? That means that unless you're planning on upgrading the speakers farther down the line you really won't get much benefit from using high-end kit. It'll sound a bit better than something like a Denon A11SR, but not that much. The speakers will be the weak link.

    Having said that, if you do go the higher-end route, then here are some pointers.

    If you're considering a Rotel processor then you should also check out the Cyrus AV8. In this sort of price bracket you shouldn't ignore the (integrated) Denon A1SR and Pioneer AX10, either.

    Above the Cyrus and Rotel is a bit of a gap - there are older models like Myryad, and Roksan Caspian, but you don't really hit anything of value until you get to the Tag AV30R. This is pretty good for its price in film mode, but rather poor musically. The Naim AV2 at £2200 is worthy of very serious consideration. Arcam AV8 is also good value at £3K. Above that there's the Meridian 568.2 (which I've been warming to a little, lately, although it restricts your options a bit if you're interested in DVD-Audio or if you particularly want an analogue bypass), the dual-SHARC Tag AV32R, and the Bryston SP1.7. List price for the Bryston is £4250, but if you shop around you may get it for rather less than that. I'm quite fond of the SP1.7 - definite step up from the Arcam.

    You might also consider looking for something second hand. I don't care for any pre-dual-processor version of the Tag AV32R at all, but some people like it, and it does at least offer some interesting upgrade possiblities; you should be able to get a basic model for comfortably under £1500. A Meridian 568 mk I is a pretty good buy at around £1800, and for another £700 you can upgrade it to 568.2 status later. And if you favour films over music then a reconditioned Lexicon MC1 is a very good buy at £1500.

    Amplifiier-wise I'd say avoid the Tag 5x100R like the plague. As you go up in price and quality from the better Rotel models there really isn't anything much until you hit the Arcam P7 (which I think is very good value). To get anything seriously better than that you'd have to go to a Meridian 558.2 (£3665, I think) or a Bryston 9B-SST which is close to £4000. If you're patient you might find a second hand Bryston 9B-ST for £2K or a little less - that is a perceptible step up from the Arcam, although it's only 5 channels, and of course not as good as the new 9B-SST.

    But I would repeat: think about what you're going to do with the speakers. Now matter how good the system you hook up to your current speakers it really won't sound that much better than what you've already got.
     
  5. sounddog

    sounddog
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,360
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    107
    Location:
    Leicestershire, UK
    Ratings:
    +452
    A couple of comments on what cheepskate said ...

    Never really noticed about the power button being wobbly ... but its pretty much the same as the power button on ever other piece of kit I've seen - unless they only have a "standby" button. Apart from that I can't really fault the build quality ... I like the feel of the volume - prefer it to something thats too loose - and feel the buttons are good quality too. My only complaint with my 1066 is that there is sometimes a "ticking" noise when changing volume - but it's not a universal problem and trying to decide weather it's worth the hastle of sending it back to Rotel or not.

    A couple of comments on what Nicholas has said ...

    The Cyrus is meant to be good for music ... but is (from what I've heard) a little lacking for movies. Also if you're interested in DVD-A and SACD with your Pioneer 757 then you're going to have to spash out more for a multi-channel input.

    I do disagree with his speaker comments ... upgrading amps with a set of 602 speakers has always brought perceptable and worthwhile improvements for us. From a Sony 930 then a Marantz SR5200 to our current Rotel kit the 602 have never felt like the can't cope (and similarly with demos of a RA02 compared to an RA1060). Yes better speakers will bring more of the quality of the Rotel kit ... but I really think we're going to have to be looking at 805 (or similar) to get the best and we just can't afford them at the present.
     
  6. kryten

    kryten
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2003
    Messages:
    515
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Swindon
    Ratings:
    +14
    Well, just because I _can_ spend 6k, doesn't mean I have to! If the cheaper option produces sounds just as good then what's the point in spending the extra - hence the huge range of options I've been looking at.

    I do, however, completely disagree about the speakers.
    [Note, on review, the ramblings below are pretty long, but I thought I'd elaborate as to exactly why I think this...]

    Some years ago, I had a demo at a place that with the exception of my current dealer (who let me try things for a week or two at home) were the most helpful I've found (I understand NicB you know them as they are breakfast cereal related!). Anyway, I went purely to listen to the Dyns, to convince myself that the Contour range weren't worth the extra over the Audience range. It immediately became obvious that the Contours were far better and I decided not the buy the cheaper speakers because the more expensive ones were what I wanted. I could easily hear the difference, and it was better (and not just different!).

    However, they set the demo up with an AV50 as that was the amp I was considering and then over the course of an entire afternoon, changed components in and out. Each time I thought the Contour 1.3s were sounding the best they could, another amp/cd player was introduced that improved the sound further. Despite me being clear there was no way I could afford it, they even let me listen to a full Mark Levinson setup costing 50 odd grand. Each time, the speakers sounded better so whilst there are almost certainly other speakers that would get 'more' from a particular combination, I _know_ that the Dyns keep getting better the more you throw at them and I just loved the sound.

    A while after this I ended up spending a lot of time in my car commuting and went through a raft of stereo upgrades. In the end, I got a set of Dyns (System 240 MkII) which were mounted in custom door builds. Best CD player I could get, processor etc etc coupled to the best car amp I've ever heard - Soundstream Continuum (which cost £1400 on its own). I got the system sounding exactly as I wanted it and a few months later trashed the car in an unfortunate disagreement with a gravel trap.

    So, the Dyns are 'it' as far as I'm concerned and are staying. I _love_ the way they sound and I have been after a pair for home for many years. I cannot desribe using the popular audiophile terms why, but I find myself listening to an album two, three or even four times consecutively, each time finding parts of the music I'd never noticed and becoming involved with the music. That was with the A1 and I know there's more to come, but the quesiton is, how much better can they sound?

    I do understand that watts isn't everything when choosing the poweramp - the Continuum was stunning, but no more powerful than most of the competition. The guy I sold it to a few weeks back mailed me to say 'wow' and then a couple of days later to say that he couldn't say _why_ it was so good, or exactly what it was, but just that it sounded better each time he listened to a track.

    End of ramblings. Not sure any of the above helps a great deal, but you never know....
     
  7. Reiner

    Reiner
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2000
    Messages:
    3,315
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Germany
    Ratings:
    +13
    No offense, but a comparision according to price doesn't sound very plausible to me, especially not when comparing to pre/power amps which seem to be overpriced (in comparision to integrated units). No doubt most combos outperform integrated, units but the gap is very steep.
    More expensive does not always equal to better. Sometimes yes, but sometimes not.
     
  8. kryten

    kryten
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2003
    Messages:
    515
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Swindon
    Ratings:
    +14
    Also (getting some way off my original question) the price of electronics tumbles over a couple of years, for the same 'processing power'.

    For example, my A1 was 1700 quid four years ago. Now its worth a few hundred and new cheap integrated amps probably have the same or better DSPs, simply because of the passage of time.

    So, is it a 500 quid set of speakers, or a 2 grand set of speakers to go with it? Same for the Lexicons that are now 1500 quid - what price range of kit should be used with them?

    Power amp and speaker technology doesn't change nearly as fast (and nor do the prices) as the DSP based electronics and I know the quality of the analogue output stages have a lot to do with it, but I'm not sure the price thing holds up so well with processors.

    Anyway, as the Dyns are staying and I'm looking for the best system I can justify (ie by hearing a 'better' overall system) for my money, would anyone care to explain any differences they've heard between the models mentioned?

    Has anyone tried any of these with Dynaudio speakers?
     
  9. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,804
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +520
    I refuse to have the same argument in two different threads at once. :)

    Go over to this thread for additional comments.

    Oh, and let me take this opportunity to recommend the Cornflake shop to anyone who's interested. Very helpful, very friendly, and I feel guilty as hell that I've only spent £1750 in there, so I like to send as many prospective customers in their direction as I can....
     
  10. kryten

    kryten
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2003
    Messages:
    515
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Swindon
    Ratings:
    +14
    Do you have any specific comments on the differences between the processors?

    I'm really considering the AV8/Tag/Meridian as the most likely processor, with the Rotel a possiblity if the others don't sound 'much better'.

    Now, the question is how to define 'much better'!

    I guess the criteria I'll be using is this: if I A/B compare them then I can tell a difference and this difference equates to one of them sounding better. However, is that difference noticeable if I listen to A yesterday, B today and then A again tomorrow. If one isn't that much better that the improvement can be noticed over this sort of timescale then I'll go with other factors (looks/usability/price).

    Now, the complication comes if one sounds better for music and another for movies, but that's a whole other problem!!
     
  11. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,804
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +520
    Head-to-head comparisons in one session are really the only way to go. Repeat sessions on exactly the same system in the same room are okay at a pinch. But beyond that it really starts to break down, because you'll be hearing differences in the amplifier, the speakers, the room acoustics, the choice of recording, maybe even in the player - there will be no way to tell how much if it is due to the change in the processor. Has to be a controlled experiment.

    Differences between processors often come down to clarity. I don't know if you wear glasses, but if you do then think about it's like when you've been wearing a pair for a while and the prescription is a little off. You probably don't notice that much. But then when you do finally get a new pair with exactly the right prescription it's rather surprising just how much clearer and brighter everything suddenly becomes. That's what switching from a poorer quality processor to a better one tends to be like.

    Playing music that uses acoustic instruments using the processor's DACs can be quite a good guide to the quality of the sound - it'll let you hear things like brightness or harshness or any sort of muffled quality.

    The other thing to listen for, in film mode, is how aware you are of the speakers, and the position of the speakers. If it's relatively easy to forget about where the speakers are, that's a good sign. If sound moves smoothly around rather than hopping from speaker to speaker, that's good. If you keep thinking "I really don't like the way the trumpets sound in the left front speaker during that bit" that's not a very good sign.

    It also occasionally helps to know what the processors are capable of. To take a rather facile example, listening to an AV8 and a 568.2 together using the analogue inputs is a bit unfair on the 568.2 because it has no analogue bypass. That in itself might be a problem - but given that there isn't an analogue bypass, you'd never use a 568.2 in real life except with the processor doing the conversion and the player acting simply as a transport (if possible). So if you want to know what the relative abilities are of a 568.2 and an AV8 paying stereo music then the fairest way to test might be to compare the 568.2 with a digital input against the AV8 in analogue bypass mode - if you think that's how you'd listen to it at home. If testing musical ability, you should also try out Meridian's Trifield mode.
     
  12. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,804
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +520
    As for "specific" comments:

    Meridian: high quality sound, nice proprietary DSP modes, but maybe a bit expensive for what it does feature-wise. Really limits your options if you're interested in multi-channel music, unless you can afford a Meridian player to go with it; no bypass.

    Arcam AV8: sound can be a little rough, but excellent value for money; lots of connectivity; rather nice video switching; good quality bypass.

    Tag AV32R: I really don't like the older versions of the AV32R at all, but the new dual-processor version is rather nice. Razor-sharp steering, very clear, but maybe a little bright where something like the Meridian is more neutral (but not quite as clear). Does have a bypass, but not a very good one, IMO. Tag have historically been a real whiz when it comes to upgrades. Room EQ system is rather interesting.

    Lexicon MC1: Very atmospheric for films, but rather poor for stereo use. No bypass. If you mean to use it mostly for films, good value at £1500. No upgrade path at all, though.

    Naim AV2: good value, can be slightly annoying to connect to non-Naim power amps; slightly muffled sound, but pleasant.

    Bryston SP1.7: superb analogue bypass, wonderfully clear and pure in the front channels. Surround channels aren't quite on a par with the dual-SHARC Tag, but still good.

    Parasound Halo C2: not heard it, but supposed to be good.

    I'm assuming the Lexicon MC8 is out of your price bracket....
     
  13. DEO

    DEO
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Kryten:

    Just because you have £6K to spend does not mean you have to spend it. The law is that of diminishing returns.

    I reckon £3K is a lot to spend on processor/amplifier and buys superb quality sound. That applies to one box or two box solutions.

    Another £3K does not double the quality. In fact you can bet your partner and your father cannot notive the difference in going from £3K to £6K.

    Perhaps you can when doing a A/B comparison under controlled situations but so what? To my mind 77 out of 100 is as good as 79 out of 100 and not worth doubling your investment. The improvement is marginal to most ears.

    Now if you doubled up from buying a £30K Merc C320 to a CL500, well then! That is not a marginal difference, that is a big difference. IMHO.

    I am in a similar dilemna to yourself and cannot be sure that the AV8/P7 for £5500 is three times as good as say a Denon AV1SR for £2200.

    Dave
     
  14. sounddog

    sounddog
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,360
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    107
    Location:
    Leicestershire, UK
    Ratings:
    +452
    Also worth remembering that you don't have to buy the same manufacturers power amps as you do processor.

    The Arcam AV8 or Tag AVR32 goes nicely with Rotel power amplification as a step up from the Rotel RSP1066 - which is a good processor but is limited in features and slightly in SQ when compared to the others - but they are of course 2.5 - 4 times more expensive. The 5ch Rotel RMB1075 is £850 and a matching 2ch RB1070 is another £500 ... compared with £2500 for the Arcam P7.

    Vikki
     
  15. OnTheFly

    OnTheFly
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Messages:
    2,870
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Everywhere
    Ratings:
    +105
    But surely you would not buy this equipment new? I did that ONCE. Why not buy either secondhand or at least ex-dem. I have just about finished building my third system & this time the only parts I have bought new are the TV and the odd cable.
     
  16. sounddog

    sounddog
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Messages:
    3,360
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    107
    Location:
    Leicestershire, UK
    Ratings:
    +452
    Becuase of the end user support from dealers, piece of mind, etc. Also the stuff going second hand usually don't have alll the current features - often they're older models.

    Tag AVR32 tend to be 5.1 models without 192 DACs or Bypass. And I've never seen anyone selling a RSP1066 or Arcam AV8 as they are both too new.

    Oh and someone has to buy new for there to be kit avaliable second hand ...

    Vikki
     
  17. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,804
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +520
    Buying a second hand power amp can be a good investment. A second processor may be less so, because processor technology is advancing much faster, so a second hand one will be more out of date. It may be upgradeable - but that can work out almost as expensive as buying a new one outright.

    Speakers are tricky. On the one hand speaker technology isn't advancing all that fast. But on the other hand speakers are mechanical devices, and they wear out. A speaker that's 5 years old will be pretty much at the end of its useful lifespan.
     
  18. gringottsdirect

    gringottsdirect
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    2,896
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    50 Rue St Georges, Paris.
    Ratings:
    +27
    Oooh Nicolas, I can't agree with that ! :eek: :)
     
  19. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2001
    Messages:
    3,096
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Ratings:
    +69
    NicolasB


    "A speaker that's 5 years old will be pretty much at the end of its useful lifespan."

    ?????

    I am not too sure about that.


    Steve.
     
  20. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0


    Agree with you on that. I've saved a heap of money by getting second hand poweramps. I'ld like to see what you can get for £2000......and that's for eight channels.

    True, but I'll rather have a top-end processor that decodes all the formats I need (basic DD/DTS with 7 channel extration), than having a cheap far eastern processor with all the latest codecs.


    Still rather have 2nd hand pair of Kef Reference, than new Q speakers (if available for the same price) Don't agree with you regarding age... unless been mistreated of course.

    Have you got any speakers Nic?:laugh:
     
  21. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,804
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +520
    Well, maybe 7 years. It depends how heavily you use them, obviously.
     
  22. IvorBigun

    IvorBigun
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Sounds like rubbish to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Incidently my speakers are 15 years and still sound fine to my gereatric ears.
    Sometimes the feedback from my hearing aid causes a problem,
    but hey, thats life.
     
  23. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    17,133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Ratings:
    +1,277
    I can’t agree with speakers bit, what about Lowther, QUAD ESL, LS3 / 5A or say my Spendor BC1s from the mid 70s, 30 years old and still used as the reference for Hifi Choice! Some of these they are still making even now.…
     
  24. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,804
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +520
    Beekeeper, I'm not saying speakers designed 30 years ago are a problem, I'm saying speakers manufactured 30 (or indeed rather less than 30) years ago and used for a couple of hours every day throughout that period will be a problem. The driver suspension just softens and loosens up too much for the speaker to keep sounding as good as it used to. This is the flip-side of the "breaking in" phenomenon - they start a little too stiff, reach an ideal range for a few years, and then head into the "too soft" region. They remain useable for much longer, but the sound quality will be perceptibly poorer than it would be for almost-new speakers of the same model.
     
  25. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Ah well I'm enjoying my speakers Nic...perhaps you should actually buy speakers, rather than look around for that elusive ultimate processor/poweramp/speaker system?

    :)
     
  26. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,804
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +520
    I've bought speakers I just have nothing to plug them into... :(
     
  27. EvilMudge

    EvilMudge
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Nic, are you still stuck for a pre-amp?

    I have a very old Marantz SP50 Pro Logic pre amp lying around that you can have for postage and packing if you want:devil:
     
  28. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I have a Denon AVD-2000 Dolby Pro-Logic & Dolby Digital processor, pretty good sound- will sell it if you're interested. It'll do until you buy a Lex/Tag/Bryston etc
     
  29. DEO

    DEO
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Nic, come on admit it and say it was a slip of the (electronic) tongue.

    Speakers do last for more than 5 years. People are now less worried about Plasmas having too short a life if used for 2 hours per week. Surely no problem with 5 year old speakers.

    Dave
     
  30. NicolasB

    NicolasB
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,804
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Emily's Shop
    Ratings:
    +520
    Well, what I really meant was that if you take two speakers that are the same model but different ages, with the newer one being about (say) three or four months old, then five years is about the point at which the older one starts to sound audibly less good than the newer one. Clearly it will be a long time later that it becomes actually unuseable, but then again it's downhill all the way.

    Obviously that period will depend very strongly on how much the speakers are actually used. If they're sitting unused in their boxes in a dry, dust-free environment the whole time, then they'll probably be indistinguishable from new. If they've been played loudly 24 hours a day, well... probably not so good.
     

Share This Page

Loading...