Problems with speed, internal problem, help please

[Rolly1988]

Hi everyone,

I hope I'm in the right section, i am with Sky broadband but seeing as it is a hardware problem i thought this section would be better suited.

Basically, since we have had sky our speed has been a bit inconsistent, varying between 2-4mb despite being told we should get 5.5mb. Anyway 10 days ago it dropped to 1.4mb and stayed at that so i rung them up to see if anything was up. They then told me that i needed to check to see whether it is an internal or external problem, so i took the master socket plate off and put the broadband filter straight into the test socket. All of a sudden my speed was up to 6mb and the phone line seemed clearer. So I left it a few days and the speed didn't change.

So the issue is internal. I put the face plate back on the master sock a bit earlier and the it is now showing is 2.4mb, so and improvement but certainly not the 6mb i could be getting. I have another phone socket in the house, which is being used, i have got a filter on there (just for added info).

Is it a case of putting on a new faceplate, if so how easy is that to do and what about wiring? Or is it potentially something more that requires an engineer?

Thanks
Tom

 

[PJTX100]

You could buy a faceplate that disconnects the bell wire, that will likely improve matters, or you can disconnect the bell wire yourself - do a forum search on bell wire, lots of posts on this topic.

 

[Spoonboy90]

You can disconnect the bellwire yourself, it should be an orange/white wire assuming the other two wires are blue/white and white/blue failing that it'll be connected to the connection marked with a 3. Do this on the mastersocket front plate and your extension socket.

If this doesn't help the situation then you could need to replace the extension wiring or possibly socket.

If your router is usually connected to the mastersocket you may want to get an NTE2000 to replace your current faceplate. Search an auction site for NTE2000!

 

[Rolly1988]

So disconnecting the bell wire is likely to help the situation. From what I've read about it it is and old thing and is pretty much redundant these days then?

I'll try removing the bell wire over the weekend. I presume it is a simple case of just pulling a wire? I have the BT NTE5 master socket, I'm guessing this is an old socket? Would it make much difference replacing this and if so is there much rewiring that would need to be done, also considering that I have another socket upstairs?

Spoonboy90 what difference does the NTE2000 make?

Thanks

 

[beerhunter]

So disconnecting the bell wire is likely to help the situation. From what I've read about it it is and old thing and is pretty much redundant these days then?

I'll try removing the bell wire over the weekend. I presume it is a simple case of just pulling a wire? I have the BT NTE5 master socket, I'm guessing this is an old socket? Would it make much difference replacing this and if so is there much rewiring that would need to be done, also considering that I have another socket upstairs?

Removing the bell wire MAY get you an increase in speed. Sometimes it do and sometimes it don't. It depends on the environment. It's always worth a punt though.

An NTE5 is pretty modern. Replacing the socket is unlikely to make any difference but pre-filtered faceplates (with one socket for ADSL and the other for the phone) are sometimes SLIGHTLY better but it is marginal and I mostly fit them to negate the need for discrete filters on all phone sockets.

To get rid of the bell circuit, remove the Orange & White wire from connector 3 on the back of the faceplate. For completeness do the same on all of the extensions.

 

[mike.hutch]

If you have only had the problem since Sky has been fitted I would try unplugging that first, Sky engineers are well know for bodging extension sockets.

How many phone sockets have you got in the house? If its only one plus the master disconnecting the bell wire will have little difference. If you have a hum on the line dial 17070 then press 2 and listen to the noise. Do this again after you have unplugged the Sky, if the hum is gone the Sky is faulty. Do the same with the bell wire etc.

 

[beerhunter]

How many phone sockets have you got in the house? If its only one plus the master disconnecting the bell wire will have little difference.

Why is that?

 

[mike.hutch]

Normally thats the case, the more extension sockets the worse the problem with the bell wire is. Also its worse if you are far out from the exchange, and the OP says he gets 6meg at the NTE which indicates he is pretty close as the speed gets lower the further away you get.

 

[beerhunter]

Normally thats the case, the more extension sockets the worse the problem with the bell wire is. Also its worse if you are far out from the exchange, and the OP says he gets 6meg at the NTE which indicates he is pretty close as the speed gets lower the further away you get.

Sorry buy I have to disagree on two counts.

First of all the severity of the problem has nothing to do with the number of extensions. It is down to the length and route of the extension wiring and the electrical 'dirtiness' of the premises. This is because the problem is caused by induced noise due to the bell wire being 'unbalanced'.

Second it has nothing at all to do with the wiring upstream of the premises. It is entirely due to internal wiring and so the length of the line to the back of the Master Socket is neither here not there.

Having said that about the physics. The statistics dictate that the effect may actually be worse for those subscribers closer to the Exchange because their speed will be cut by more. This is borne out by observation. That is to say people who should be getting say 6 Mb/s before sorting out the bell often report gains in the order of several Mb/s but those further way from the exchange getting say 2.5 Mb/s often get less impressive gains.

 

[mike.hutch]

I was just trying to give a basic answer, the fact is if there is only one extension socket then there will be less of an unbalance between the A and B leg caused by the bell wire, unless that is a very long extension of course!

I can say from experience that if you are close to the exchange extensions will not have as big an effect on broadband speed.

beerhunter are you a telephone engineer?

 

[beerhunter]

beerhunter are you a telephone engineer?

No. I am a Systems Engineer. My specialism is Data Comms.

 

[Rolly1988]

Ok, have just removed the bell wire. I had originally thought it was a lot more complicated than just pulling out the wire.

At first when i checked the speed after doing this, it was 1.7mb, so i unplugged the filter from the socket and gave it a few seconds and reconnected it. Every time i did this the speed seemed to increase, all the way up to 5.3mb.

Anyway i will leave it for now and monitor it over the weekend and keep any eye on the speed. 5.3mb isn't far off the 6mb i should be getting and is a great improvement so am happy so far. Hopefully once they realise the connection is better they will send down a consistent high speed.

I have also just checked the phone, it sounds better and is a lot clearer now so so far so good. Hopefully it stays like that

Thanks for the help and suggestions. Is there anything else that can be done or would be helpful to do?

Tom

 

[mike.hutch]

Depending on your ISP it can take up to 24hrs for them to adjust your profile. I think with Sky if you ring them they can do it instantly, not sure though some ISPs will and some wont.

 

[Leroy]

Today, I took the faceplate off my master socket and plugged my micro-filter directly into the test socket and now have my phone and router plugged into that.

I'm currently having big problems speedwise which is due to a wider issue with Virgin, but my sync speed increased from circa 4 meg to circa 6 meg INSTANTLY. My connection also became a lot less irratic

From what I've read, if you do this, it automatically disconnects all of the extensions in your house (i.e. everything except the master socket) and therefore no need to mess about pulling bell wires etc.

 

[Rolly1988]

Ok, not long after i removed the bell wire, it went back down to 3.7mb and have just checked it again and is still 3.7mb. Is it worth ringing SKY at all and if so what do i need to ask them to do?

Leroy: yea same thing, big speed increase when in the master socket. I would have left it like that but we use the second socket in the house so not really possible sadly.

Thanks

 

[mike.hutch]

So you've taken the bell wire off but still have the extension connected? Are you sure the speed is stable with your modem plugged straight into the NTE test socket? If it is it sound like your extension is faulty. If you call Sky and they send an (openreach) engineer out, the chances are you will get charged if its proved the extension is faulty.

Your best bet is to leave the modem connected to the test socket for a few days and see if the connection is stable. If it is you can be sure the extension is faulty. Just a thought, what is plugged into the extension? Is that where you normally plug the modem in?

 

[Leroy]

I totally agree, leave things plugged into the test socket!

You said you need to use extensions - may I ask what for?

 

[Rolly1988]

Ok it's gone down to 2.4mb now. I only removed the orange/white cable from no.3 in the master socket, there are only 2 left in i think.

The extension is used for a second phone in the house, upstairs. When i tested it in the test socket i had it in for a good couple of days and everytime i checked it was at 6mb.

 

[mike.hutch]

Your extension is faulty then. Cheapest option is to get a set of cordless phone with a slave handset and use that upstairs.

Just a thought though, you do have a filter on the phone upstairs? It might be worth trying with the phone unplugged and the extension still connected to see if it the phone causing the fault, which is probably a rectified loop, on the line. Especially if it is a cheap corded phone made by Binatone or similar.

 

[beerhunter]

There is no reason at all why a properly installed extension should affect one's Broadband speed and so it one want extension sockets, there is no reason not to have them. I have umpteen scattered around our house.

 

[Rolly1988]

Ok, well im guessing there is a problem with the internal wiring somewhere? The bell wire is still out, i am using the second phone socket in the house (not sure whether using it will effect speed so have left it in use).

Last i checked it was still at 2.4mb, so down from 3.7mb, will check again this evening when i get back home. I know this is an improvement from what it had dropped to the other week, but knowing that 6mb is coming into the house and not getting near that is really frustrating.

What should be my next move?

Also just to add that i will be moving from Sky Mid (now everyday) to Max (now unlimited) as i have just found out that they have changed the usage limit to 10GB, which i will exceed if i haven't already. Just thought i would mention this as i was curious as to whether this would increase speed in any way. My exchange is Bromsgrove, West Midlands, I'm pretty sure Sky are LLU here.

Thanks
Tom

 

[Rolly1988]

Ok, just rang sky and apparently they aren't changing the usage on the middle package for everyone and unless we hear from them it won't affect us so for the time being we shall be staying on that with the 40GB download limit.

My speed is still 2.4mb download, 576 upload (the upload speed seems consistent, that has been the same since i properly paid attention over the past week).

 

[mike.hutch]

Whats plugged in to the second phone socket? Have you checked the speed with it unplugged?

I personally wouldn't have more than one extension. For a start there is no reason to with DECT and wireless technology, and second from experience I know they do cause problems.

 

[beerhunter]

I personally wouldn't have more than one extension. For a start there is no reason to with DECT and wireless technology, and second from experience I know they do cause problems.

As I said earlier Extension Sockets shouldn't cause problems. If they do they need fixing which really isn't difficult. Having said that DECT can cause problems.

 

[mike.hutch]

DECT in theory can cause problems, but I've never seen it in real life. Extensions are a pain, they nearly always do slow down broadband unless the end user is very close to the exchange or only has one or two short extension. I am a telephone engineer in case you hadn't guessed, and I deal with ADSL faults on a daily basis.

To be honest there are so many factors that can effect the problem its not easy to give an exact answer on the forum, we don't even know what the OP's house is like, he could live in a modern terraced house in a city, with a modern underground feed and new wiring, or in a rural detached cottage with an aging overhead feed and extensions that have been in the house 30 years. Also is the extension wiring surface mounted on the skirting or buried in the walls?

This is why I suggest the easy option is a DECT phone!