Problems with Iomega media player....1080/50p not supported?

Discussion in 'Video Streaming Boxes & Services' started by numptydumpty, Mar 11, 2013.

  1. numptydumpty

    numptydumpty
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    Hi guys. As my user name may suggest, I am a total technophobe...so this could be a long and painful process for all concerned. However, I would seriously appreciate and help you can offer, so here goes.

    Relevant equipment first I guess?

    TV.....Pany Viera TX-P46GT30B plasma, 1080p and 3D capable.

    Media player.....Iomega Screenplay MX Multimedia Player, 1TB

    PC (laptop) Sony Vaio SVE1712Z1EB,
    intel CORE i7 3632QM processor, 2.2GHz to 3.2GHz with Turbo Boost,
    1TB Hard Drive,
    8GB RAM,
    AMD Radion HD 7650M graphics card, with 2GB graphics RAM.

    Camcorder.....Pany HDC-HS900, which I always set to record on it's highest quality, i.e, 1920 x 1080/50p

    Ok, I won't bore you with all the ins and outs, but if I plug the camcorder into the laptop, the recordings play back beautifully, everything perfect. If I plug the camcorder straight into the TV, everything is perfect, as above. The problem comes when my son in law (it is quite beyond me) superficially edits my footage (virtually just adding title and date at the start, cutting out any obvious black files, then adding 'END' at the end, leaving the rest raw, as it comes. He then renders it and transfer it onto the Iomega. When THAT is plugged into the TV and played, the picture quality is fine, colours good, sharp and crisp as original....but now, when a panning section is playing (I always pan slowly) there is slight but infuriating flickering/juddering visible. My S in L has tried everything he knows, and we have experimented enough to pretty well pin the problem down to the Iomega media player.

    The Iomega blurb on the box states that it supports 'Full HD up to 1080p', and then goes on to list video formats supported....H.264, WMV, RMVB, MPEG-1/2/4 (part2 ASP), DivX+HD, Xvid.....AVCHD files and so on.

    However, it lists 1920 x 1080p (50fps) and at (60fps).....it does NOT mention 1920 x 1080/50p specifically, and while that is all meaningless to me, it has been suggested that it doesn't support that exact 1080/50p that my camcorder is recording in, and that is the problem.

    What are your thoughts on this please? I really am getting to my wits end with this, my 68 year old hair does not need any more help changing colour OR disappearing. Would really appreciate your help.

    Cheers, Dave.
     
  2. next010

    next010
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    1920x1080 = 1080p and /50p is shorthand for saying 50fps.

    What might resolve the problem is if the media player has a match frame rate option, this is where the media player looks at the video to see the fps (in this case 50fps) then if the TV supports it, the player will switch to 1080/50p on the TV. I'm guessing the media player is outputting 1080/60p at the moment.

    I don't know if your Iomega player has the feature, you could look around in the settings to see if the option is there.

    Doesn't the HS900 support 1080/60p that would be the best option or have Panasonic done something completely retarded like limit it to 1080/50p recording in EU models ?
     
  3. numptydumpty

    numptydumpty
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    50p is shorthand for 50fps....so 1080/50p is actually 1080p at 50fps :eek:. Why in gods name do they do things like that? the 'p' in 1080p means progressive, but in 1080/50p it means fps :mad: I mean, it's not as if understanding all this mumbo-jumbo isn't hard enough already...especially for a teenager of the sixties with only two brain cells left :D

    Oh well, many thanks for sorting that one out for me. I had been mulling over whether it was something like that, but decided they wouldn't be that stupid....once again shows what I know :laugh:

    OK...choosing recording formats on the Pany camcorder....yes they also have done something utterly retarded it would seem. In the manual, it says 'You can select from AVCHD, 1080/50p or iFrame recording formats. Later on it mentions that the 1080/50p is the highest rate it can record in!

    I don't know if the Iomega has the option to alter the format it outputs, or whether it chooses the correct one automatically, I don'y recall any options like that being offered. I will certainly try to find those things out from it's settings list (if it has one) as you advise. If it does allow that, and the answer is something that simple, after all the time and money spent trying to cure this prob...I may well commit Hari Kari to prevent my good lady doing it for me in an infinitely more painful way :laugh:

    Many thanks next010, I will go away and put my technical ability to a stern test by plugging the Iomega into the TV and switching it on (without the S in L being present) and come back with what I find out.

    Cheers, Dave.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2013
  4. next010

    next010
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    I Google'd the model and C-Net review says it records up to [email protected] so it sounds like Panasonic have intentionally limited it.

    This is what the North America version of the HS900 supports according to C-Net
    Code:
    AVCHD: 1080/60p 28Mbps; 1080/60i/24p/25p @ 17, 13, 9, 5Mbps
    Looks like they removed the PAL HD 50fps option from that model too, totally crazy limitation for such an expensive camera, pretty much all HDTV's are 1080/60p capable.

    I managed to find the manual for the Iomega MX buried on their website, it does have a match frame rate option, go to setup->video->TV system and set it to HDMI Auto.

    Try playing the video and see if the TV switches to 1080/50p and that reduces the judder.
     
  5. numptydumpty

    numptydumpty
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    Hi next010, thank you so much for all the trouble you have already gone to in your efforts to help me, I really do appreciate your kindness. As it happens, I had already discovered the settings area on the Iomega before I read your last post, and it was indeed set to 1080/60, so I changed it to 1080/50....no appreciable difference on playback. By chance I experimentally altered it to HDMI Auto as you are now suggesting trying, and found that this made it worse...a lot worse. A brief message popped up saying 1080p 60Hz input on that setting (not that I understand what it means)....but why the heck would the Auto setting choose that, because it obviously isn't right! Crazy or what?

    Cheers, Dave.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2013
  6. next010

    next010
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    The Iomega is a not so great media player, although it could be something in the video your son in law is doing with whatever format he is converting the video into. Hardware based media players like the Iomega aren't as flexible as software players on a PC.

    It is odd that the player decided on 1080/60p when set to HDMI auto, in theory it should have gone to 1080/50p so something is wrong somewhere...

    Can the AVCHD video be edited with no video conversion, then feed that output into another encoder perhaps one which might make a video with less trouble. For example if you dropped your AVCHD/m2ts into Handbrake and select high profile preset then click start that will give you a high quality mp4 video which should in theory play on the Iomega hopefully with no problems.
     
  7. numptydumpty

    numptydumpty
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    Hi again next010. I gather then that not only do 1080p 60fps and 1080/60p mean the same thing...but that 1080p 60Hz does as well :eek: Man, this stuff is hard going :laugh:

    That being so, the bit I can't get my head around is this. When I went into the options in the Iomega, it did say it was set wrongly to 1080/60p. Not surprising then that when I also saw that it had 1080/50p as an option, I was over the moon, I thought we had cracked it! It seemed all I needed need to do was change it manually to that. Sadly, when I did so, there was no appreciable difference in the resulting play back.

    Now....the really weird bit. When I set it to HDMI Auto, the pop-up said it was now set to 1080p 60Hz (not the 1080/60p as written in the options list)....and the play-back on that was much worse. However, if I went back into the menu and set it manually to the 1080/60p option...it played back better again, just as it did when set to 1080/50p. It wasn't right, but it wasn't as bad as the 1080p 60Hz option chosen by the HDMI Auto setting. If they mean the same thing, you can appreciate why I am now utterly confused!

    I understand where you are coming from about taking the easy way out and converting to a lesser format, and it has been suggested before....and quite probably it would work. The thing is this....when I saw the picture quality that the HS900 produced using the 1080/50p format, I was blown away....which was why I went silly and parted with £1000 (approx. US$1500) which was what they cost in the UK at that time. Not only that, my good lady was just as in love with it when she viewed her next holiday, via HDMI lead straight from the camcorder. Sadly, several holidays later, the 220GB drive in the Panny is full, as is the £130 SDXC card I bought as a stop-gap untill I got things sorted :rolleyes: I have since then spent a similar amount again on the Iomega and my new laptop (I already had a Vaio, which we blamed initially for this issue)....and I am now SO close...it's only that slight but infuriating judder/flicker on pans that separates things from perfection. So...you see why giving up now would be so devastating for me!

    I know the answer is there somewhere...I just have to live long enough to find it :D

    Best regards, Dave.
     
  8. next010

    next010
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    I would bet good money you would have difficulty in noticing the difference in the output from Handbrake and the original video.

    Handbrake uses x264 the best H.264 compression codec available and the quality level it outputs is very high, if you want to bump the quality level even further after selecting high profile preset on the video tab drag the RF slider from 20 to 18 then click start to begin conversion.

    Give it a try and see if it makes any difference.

    The player is guessing wrong for the video if the original video is 50fps and it is auto switching to 60fps then its likely a sign of some kind of compatibility problem. Might be the Iomega has trouble with 50fps material especially if the Handbrake copy produces the same results.
     
  9. numptydumpty

    numptydumpty
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    OK, just so I am sure...you are saying that 1080/50p, 1080p 50fps and 1080p 50Hz....are all one and the same thing, right? Just different ways of expressing the same thing? I just need to be certain that that is what you are saying, before I can start to make sense of anything.

    I had previously understood that the 'p' stands for progressive, fps stands for frames per second, and Hz something else all together....but I am probably wrong!

    Cheers, Dave.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2013
  10. next010

    next010
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    Yes more or less the same in the context of this discussion. You have progressive videos at 1920x1080 resolution which run at 50 frame per second, the media player outputs 1920x1080 at 50Hz or 60Hz.

    No that's correct.
     
  11. numptydumpty

    numptydumpty
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    Woa...it's right...one small step for man :D Thanks next010...I am working on it.
     
  12. numptydumpty

    numptydumpty
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    Right....results of the next marathon 'try this' session, while my son in law had some spare hours to help me.

    We used Sony Vegas 12 and tried edditing a tiny panning clip from my camcorder through that, in case it was the Ciberlink Power Director 11 software that was the problem. It wasn't...the juddering was exactly the same once the file was put onto the Iomega media player HD and viewed from that on the TV. Again, when the footage was viewed on the laptop before downloading onto the Iomega, it was fine, no judders. For what it's worth, my son in law had put some movies on the Iomega for my wife to watch, just a small library of downloaded Cinema films she might like. When they are viewed on my TV there is no juddering, but the lip-sinc issues are horrendous, huge delay...yet those same movies play back fine on his older Samsung TV direct from the portable HDD he stored them on, and which he transferred them onto the Iomega from.

    He then downloaded that 'Handbrake' you mentioned next010, but I have to say we struggled a bit with that, basically because the minimal things you said to do when on that didn't come up as options. You had said " if you want to bump the quality level even further after selecting high profile preset on the video tab drag the RF slider from 20 to 18 then click start to begin conversion".

    Well...we couldn't find "high profile preset" anywhere in the settings or the options, nor anything labelled "RF slider" :eek:....so that kind of threw us before we started. However, somehow my s in l did manage to get something through it and converted, and we discovered that the files had now been converted to MPEG4. So, what the heck, we tried putting that onto the Iomega anyway, then viewed it on the TV....and the judder was exactly the same! He tried two other little apps, again to MPEG4, and the output from those even juddered when viewed on the laptop, so we didn't bother transferring those to the Iomega!

    I remember a few years back, when we had a 1080i camcorder, we bought a Sony recorder, first of a new line, which if I recall could record direct to it's internal HDD, or onto removable disc (either DVD or Blu-ray, don't remember). When we recorded onto The HDD of that, the playback had exactly the same judders. Eventually, a Sony rep came to our house in dibelief, tried it, had no luck himself...made a few phone calls, then, deeply embarassed said he was very sorry, it wasn't me.... the recorder didn't have the correct 'codecs' to do the job, so we got our money back.

    I don't have a lot of luck with this, do I :mad:

    I saw another member posting on another forum on this site asking about 'screen judder', and the senior member who replied didn't really have a definite answer....I really can't believe it is an unavoidable fact of life with edited and rendered videos, otherwise the kind people on here would have told me, rather than try to help cure it!

    Oh dear....or words I can't mention :rolleyes:

    Cheers, Dave.
     
  13. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    Have a look at the attached screen capture of Handbreak - I've circled the bits you are looking for :)

    Mark.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. numptydumpty

    numptydumpty
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    Hi Mark,

    Thanks for that, seeing your capture it looks so simple I cant see how we missed it :blush:

    Mind you, to be honest that process looks a non starter anyway, according to my poor old 's in l'. Even if you ignore the time he took in the initial faffing about and finding his way , when he did manage to convert a short clip of video to whatever we ended up with, it took several minutes to convert that tiny bit....and it was obvious it would take for ever to do all the stuff I have to do (serious amounts)....and it would still need all the rest of the umpteen processes required to get it from camcorder to media player in a watch-able format. It would simply add too much time to the already horrendous amount of time and work facing me to get this done. Being a total technophobe, it frightens me to death now, without adding to the list of things to do to get there.

    Besides, it still comes down to this....the format my camcorder records in (1920 x 1080p 50fps) is apparently a very common one...it is not some obscure, little used 'what the hell is that' type thing....so it surely shouldn't require a miracle to shove a holiday vid in that format on to my laptop, do a VERY basic 'add a title' sort of edit, render it, then transfer it to a media player to view on my TV. That surely is done day in, day out with this format isn't it? And we are SO close....it is just that annoying flickering on pans that spoils it, the rest is perfect. There is surely just one tiny bit missing, or set wrong, or that needs adjusting.....whatever.

    In fact, there is a guy on the forum I first went too on this site, who has exactly the same camcorder as me, set to record in the same format...(he looked at the specs of my laptop and said it is well up to the job)...and he even has the same TV as me...and his stuff plays back faultlessly. The only two differences are that (a) he knows what he is doing, and (b) he uses a NAS drive to store it all on, not a media player...though I couldn't figure out how he gets to display it on the TV from that. All I am saying is...it is obviously possible. If I was ABSOLUTELY certain that spending out yet another pile of cash on yet another set of hardware would bring this saga to an end, I would do it (though it would hit hard) I just can't go down that road any more until I am sure it's not just something silly that needs fixing. I think the missus would kill me if we ended up with another pile of expensive new gear...and still no holidays for her to watch in the quality I have worked towards for so long :( Trust me, we have been there so many times before, but age and a pensioner sized bank account will no longer allow that blind trial and error method :rolleyes:

    Cheers, Dave.
     
  15. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    Local knowledge with all the 101 bits of software we use these days takes time to learn. Easy when you know how, but learning how is not so easy. So I know how you feel and can only do my best to help you.

    Any file conversion is going to take a fair bit of time, and if that footage is HD then the time it takes only gets longer. So I think you do need to consider ways to avoid conversion if at all possible.

    1080/50p is a fairly new video format mainly found from camcorder footage. The likes of BluRay don't use it so it isn't really a set standard. So a lot of older media players simply don't handle it, but more recent players are now more commonly handling it. I know my ~3 year old Dune Prime 3.0 has issues with this footage, but AFAIK the newer Dune players etc can play it without issues. The players use a dedicated but low powered chipset that does all the decoding onboard, not like a PC where a new graphics card & driver resolves the issues. So a simple software upgrade isn't always possible for adding new video formats, unlike on a PC where there is plenty of processing power to do it in software if required.

    Mark.
     
  16. numptydumpty

    numptydumpty
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    Thanks again Mark, and I think you are spot on. I have spent so much money for so long trying to buy success...but it hasn't worked, and I am no longer in a position to keep on doing that. I am certain I will never master all this...it is more than just a question of time and practice, I have an absolute mental block about this for some reason, and as I am in my 69th year, I must accept that I am not going to change that now. My son in law is self taught and knows a fair bit of the basics...he absolutely astonishes me...but it is knowledge gleaned from trial and error, he has no technical knowledge or education to build on, so he hits a brick wall frequently, bless him. However, be that as it may, my good lady is 71, and time it is a ticking....so I need to get this sorted before too long, that's for sure.

    I have a gut feeling that it is the wretched Iomega media player that is at fault....but it seems the only way to prove that one way or the other is by spending out and buying another make, or another way of doing this. Again, I have reached similar conclusions before...bought the kit I was assured would do it...no good at all, waste of money. On paper, looking at the specs, the Iomega should do it...but I gather that it is not a very good bit of kit, and doubtless it was designed several years back when that format was cutting edge. I feel sure my format is pushing it a tiny bit beyond it's theoretical limits, so it is failing at the last hurdle, and the juddering is an artefact of that small shortcoming. However, not being certain about that is the stumbling block here. If I knew someone who had another player I could borrow to test this theory, it would be great...but I don't, so that's an end to that.

    Infuriating isn't it?

    Cheers, Dave.
     
  17. next010

    next010
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    Digital camcorders have a bad habit of producing videos which are unusual is the easiest way to say it. These videos can give digital media players trouble sometimes so it sounds like that is part of the problem.

    Iomega do not make particularly great media players as I mentioned and the model you have is based off an older Realtek chipset so as mark says probably a combination of those two factors.

    Recommending a player which could play them is difficult, however it your are willing to upload a small sample to a free file-locker like Dropbox for instance we could download it and some folks here could check the video on one or two players in our possession.

    If you cant upload a sample I'd take a gamble on the WDTV Live media player, it's about the most common media player out there and has pretty good media support levels. Even if you dont use the streaming over network feature I would connect it to the network (it has built in wireless) so you can update the firmware of the media player (it can be done via USB too). The firmware update would contain fixes and improvements.
     
  18. numptydumpty

    numptydumpty
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    Hi Guys,

    OK, I have downloaded Dropbox (which for me is the equivalent of re-inventing the wheel :D) and I will drag and drop a file into it and send it to whichever kind soul is willing to try it. The thing is, as you are aware, I need an email address to send it to. I doubt anyone wishes to put their email address on the open forum....so I await further instructions :)

    The clip I will send is unedited, and once transferred to my Iomega in that state, it judders. It does the same if I do a minimal edit, so it isn't caused by the editing process. Also, both versions play back fine on my laptop. It certainly SEEMS to be the Iomega media player that is the problem, though I am aware that things in this game are not necessarily what they seem :D

    Many thanks again to you guys for all this help, you are stars.

    Cheers, Dave.
     
  19. next010

    next010
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    After sharing out a file it should give you a link which is like an URL

    example below
    Code:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/xttkmuvu7hh72vu/MyFile.pdf
    If you didnt get that login to the Dropox website and after uploading a file in the website or choose an existing file click the share link (looks like chain icon) on the file and then it will open a new window and click on "get link" it will say link copied to clipboard, paste the link into this text filed on the forum, right mouse click and paste or Ctrl+v key will paste.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  20. numptydumpty

    numptydumpty
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    Ok...I got as far as the bit where, as you say, a little green box popped up at the top centre of the page saying 'link copied to clipboard', which is all verylovely....but where and how do I then locate this clipboard containing the link? I tried left and right clicking on that green box, nothing happens :blush:

    Also, once I do locate this link, you say....."paste the link into this text filed on the forum, right mouse click and paste or Ctrl+v key will paste." ....are you saying to paste my link (once I find it) into the actual box on your post that contains your sample link?

    Sorry to be so dumb....I know you probably do it all day without thinking, but everything invariably crashes to a halt when I try to follow instructions, because at some point, what is supposed to happen....simply doesn't :rolleyes: I then grind to a halt!

    Cheers, Dave.
     
  21. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    The clipboard is just memory on the PC for anything you 'copy' to it.
    Just reply in this thread and when you are in the reply box press & hold the <Ctrl> key and then the letter 'V'. This will copy the clipboard contents into the reply.

    Mark.
     
  22. numptydumpty

    numptydumpty
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    paste the link into this text filed on the forum, right mouse click and paste or Ctrl+v key will paste.
    paste the link into this text filed on the forum, right mouse click and paste or Ctrl+v key will paste.

    Hmmmm...well that didn't work, lol.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  23. numptydumpty

    numptydumpty
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  24. next010

    next010
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    Got it, gave it a try on 3 devices I have compared to PC where it played perfectly smooth.

    * Boxee Box - pass, no judder to my eyes at least. Interesting to note the video was smoother playing back at 1080/60 then 1080/50 like you mentioned earlier so there is something about the video as Boxee uses a completely different chipset from the Iomega.

    * Pivos XIOS - fail, serious judder all the way through.

    * Playstation 3 - fail, hint of judder and some very odd shimmering effect in the background around plant foliage is all I could describe it as, I'm very surprised the PS3 failed at this.

    Suffice to say that is an interesting video clip to give very different players so much trouble. I'll pass on the clip to the Pivos XIOS developers as they tend to fix things if you supply all the relevant info/samples to them.

    If anyone has a WDTV Live or PCH/Dune/Mede8er in their possession give it a try.

    As to the Boxee Box, if it's the only one left standing that passes, be aware the Boxee Box is no longer supported by it's manufacturer but you can still buy them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  25. numptydumpty

    numptydumpty
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    Hi next010,

    Thanks a million for testing my clip out so thoroughly for me. It is weird that a clip from a standard Panasonic camcorder, available worldwide, proves to be such a pain in the butt isn't it?

    As far as my vid running better in /60p......in one of your previous post's you said this....

    "I Google'd the model and C-Net review says it records up to [email protected] so it sounds like Panasonic have intentionally limited it.

    This is what the North America version of the HS900 supports according to C-Net
    Code:
    AVCHD: 1080/60p 28Mbps; 1080/60i/24p/25p @ 17, 13, 9, 5Mbps
    Looks like they removed the PAL HD 50fps option from that model too, totally crazy limitation for such an expensive camera, pretty much all HDTV's are 1080/60p capable."

    So...perhaps my cam is one set for the US market, and it got muddled in with the UK versions?

    Damned if I know mate. Be interesting to see test results from the WD TV live box though, as that one is readily available.

    Interesting also that the WD TV box does not have a built in HDD....the Iomega had one, so I assumed they all came with one....wrong again! What that now means is that I will now need to buy two external HDD's, to store it all safely! Never mind, what has to be, has to be.

    Lastly, is it better to have an external HDD that spins at 7200 rpm, rather than the 5200 rpm versions for this?

    Cheers, Dave.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  26. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    Even a 5400rpm HDD will have faster access times than can be passed to a media player over USB2.0 so just get whatever external HDD you want as it will make no difference for media playback.

    Mark.
     
  27. numptydumpty

    numptydumpty
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    Hi Mark,

    I assume that means that if I had kit that had USB3.0, it would require the faster spinning disc variety? My point being that on the area of this site I started off on, I was advised that it may be better to have a NAS type enclosure with twin discs set up in RAID configuration, so that the two discs both had the same data on them, for safety sake (In case it looks like I really understood all that...I only sort of understand it) Whether that really is better than just two bog standard external HDD's in most folks eyes....or just a neater solution, I obviously don't know. But I think all the newer versions of those have USB3.0....and no doubt it is a lot dearer? Oh dear, so many choices....and I know nowt about any of them :D

    Cheers, Dave.
     
  28. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    Unless your media player has USB3 then the HDD having it will make no difference in transfer speeds as it will just be at the slowest speed of the 2 devices, ie USB2.0
    However USB2.0 is plenty fast enough for media playback, even high bitrate BluRay rips with HD audio. So for a media player there is no need to use USB3.

    As for the NAS well it is just a more resiliant form of storage. RAID wil not prevent loss of media if you actually delete it by acident or a virus does damage. However RAID1 does mean that should a single HDD fail then you can recover your data as it is all mirrored on the other HDD. However this has the disadvantage that 2x 2Tb HDD's in RAID1 only gives you (just under) 2Tb of storage space.

    Mark.
     
  29. next010

    next010
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    I'd say a USB external disk drive is just fine, a NAS with RAID is jumping into the deep end of the pool.

    How much space you actually need as you can buy 4TB external hard drives like this model from Seagate, though not all media players can handle such high capacity drives (there's always a catch) but 2TB drives are always supported.
     
  30. numptydumpty

    numptydumpty
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    I would think that a pair of 2TB HDD's would be ample (giving a bit less than 2TB total duplicated space). I don't have to put absolutely everything I have on the discs, but I have never sat down to work out exactly what space it would all take up anyway. There are std8/ Hi8/1080i/tapes...boxes of them :D (for example, I think there are something like 80x1 hour 1080i tapes) (I realise the older 8/hi8 formats there won't take up much space). Then there is the 220GB 1080p internal HD in the Pany cam, and the card I bought....and whatever other holidays I video on the Pany from now onwards. No doubt the good lady will also want a raft of her photos loaded up, and a small library of feature films. Not a lot laugh:

    Looking at that Seagate ext. HDD you put a link up for next010, I see that it has a load of it's own software onboard, Dashboard and so on. Is that wise when you are using a media player as well? Obviously I haven't got a clue, but I have read of desperate issues with such software, including all files being irretrievably lost if it fails, which apparently it sometimes does, with precious little help from the manufacture in attempting to retrieve them. I don't know...I can only repeat what may well be scare stories....I rely on you clever lot to put me straight on that :smashin:.

    Cheers, Dave.
     

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