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Problems choosing software

Discussion in 'Camcorders, Action Cams & Video Editing Forum' started by PhilipC, Sep 3, 2005.

  1. PhilipC

    PhilipC
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    When I bought my camcorder I also bought a Pinnacle package (Studio DV) that included the firewire card and Studio 9. The Studio 9 software (version 9.4.3) has so far failed to complete any rendering and, looking at various websites, I'm certainly not alone in having this problems. There are also many complaints about the Ulead equivalent.

    So, I downloaded the Adobe Premier Elements Tryout - there were not many negative comments about this software. I've just tried using it and it took 27 hours to render a 1.5 hour video to AVI format (the Tryout version doesn't produce DVD format) that I'd captured using Studio 9. Is this the sort of performance I should expect? Is Premiere Elements generally ok?

    (To be honest, following all the frustration of Studio 9, longer rendering times may be acceptable as long as the software is reliable.)

    Any advice gratefully received!

    Philip
     
  2. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    Welcome to the forums.
    I personally started with Pinnacle studio earlier versions and soon moved on because of reliability & bug problems.

    Adobe Premier elements is well thought of & should be fine.
    The rendering time will dependent on many factors not least the power of your PC & size of file, but that certainly seems a long time.

    I would suspect that you must be applying many changes to every frame of your video.

    If you were to take two clips, overlap them creating a fade & render, the process wouldn't take long because it would simply copy all the unaffected frames (which it can do quickly) & then render only new frames for the fade (taking longer time.

    If I did the same thing but applied lots of filters etc across the whole project it would take much longer as it is rendering new frames for every one. The more you do the harder & longer the PC has to work.
     
  3. oldjohn

    oldjohn
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    Hi Phillip

    I have been using Premiere Elements for about 3 months and am quite pleased with the quality of the rendered video.

    My system is P4, 1 gig ram, 160 hard drive just for video,a twenty minute DVD output takes about 2.5 hours.
    That includes all sorts of transitions, key frames and various effects, plus audio.

    John.
     
  4. PhilipC

    PhilipC
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    Thanks for the comments.

    I hadn't done anything in the way of editing, adding transitions, etc. I simply took two files that I captured from the camcorder using Studio 9. One file was 13.8 GBytes and the other was 6.2 GBytes. I copied them into the time line, one after another, and then set the computer off on the saving/rendering task.

    I assumed (but I'm new to all this and so could be very wrong!) that the route of capturing files would make no difference, i.e. they would be the same size & format regardless of whether they were captured by Premiere Elements or by Studio 9.

    Oldjohn has said 20 minutes of DVD rendering took 2.5 hours so that would mean that my 1.5 hour movie would have taken about 10 - 12 hours. That I could live with. As I said, I was rendering to AVI (about 135000 frames) because the tryout version doesn't do DVD.

    My main requirement is to be able to edit home movies, i.e. loose all the poor bits, tidy them up, add some captions, transitions, etc and burn then to DVD for view via a television. I'm still tempted by Premiere Elements but after my frustrating experience with Studio 9, and seeing similar comments about Ulead, I don't want spend more money (I think £58 from Amazon) without being confident the product is ok.

    Philip
     
  5. PhilipC

    PhilipC
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    Me again.

    Meant to state my PC is a 3GHz P4(HT), 512MB RAM, 128MB graphics, 120GB HD) with Windows XP SP2.

    Philip
     
  6. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    Most Premiere elements users I've heard talking about it have been fairly happy with it (much more so than Pinnacle Studio)
    Another one you might want to audition before you buy is Sony Movie Studio which is a cut down version of Sony Vegas

    http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/Products/ShowProduct.asp?PID=977

    or the Platinum edition has HDV support as well (should you consider buying a HDV cam ;) )

    http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/Products/ShowProduct.asp?PID=983
     
  7. senu

    senu
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    Sorry you are having these teething problems. I have both Elements and Studio as well as Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6.1.
    Studio 10 is about to be released according to the Pinnacle/ Avid website .It may be more robust only time will tell. I have found Elements to be both reliable and nippy if not jet speedy!. LE 6.1 is fast..ish but it does live on a different partition in a multiboot system.
    Background programs like antivirus, antispyware and other programs which load up into memory when windows is started can have an impact on system performance. Builders of tailor made video editing PC systems try and avoid installing such programs.
    Otherwise simple measures like bumping your ram up to 1g. defragmenting your hard drive, Using a separate partition for capturing / rendering video should on your current system perhaps make a big difference. Overall system performance impacts on video rendering.
    Try a smaller project( less than one hr) and see if it makes a difference.
     
  8. PhilipC

    PhilipC
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    I've just captured fresh material from the camcorder (using the Premier Elements software) and used about 2.5 minutes of movie (no added effects). This took 48 minutes to render to AVI.

    Philip
     
  9. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    That seems a long time.

    Give Sony Movie Studio trial version a go.
     
  10. PhilipC

    PhilipC
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    That's interesting - I've just download the movie studio trial as you suggested and that rendered the same material in about a minute!

    Philip
     
  11. PhilipC

    PhilipC
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    I've now rendered my 1.5 hour project to AVI using Movie Studio and it only took about 45 minutes. I've checked it through and the whole file was done. I say that because I then imported this AVI file to Pinnacle and asked it to save it to DVD (because the Sony trial software doesn't) and the Pinnacle software slowly started. I ended up leaving it running overnight and this morning it said it had completed the job. When I checked the video there was only a few minutes of movie on the DVD!


    Movie Studio (with the packaged DVD software) looks quite a good option at the moment although Premiere Elements is cheaper if I could get it to speed up.

    Philip
     
  12. senu

    senu
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    Or you could try a 2-prong approach: Create your project in one package and dvd in the other. Ulead MovieFactory4 : cheap (£29) and capable for dvd authoring . I use it as well as MovieWorkshop2 more capable, equally simple to use but more expensive
    http://www.ulead.co.uk/dmf/runme.htm
    It should not reencode your already created dvd complaint mpeg2 if you prefer to have more control over your own encoding otherwise you could try your AVI's and compare its encoding quality ( and time).
    Im not sure why premiere elements is being so badly behaved on your system but nonetheless invest in more ram (it is affordable) and just makes the system work less hard.
     
  13. PhilipC

    PhilipC
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    Can you recommend a supplier of Vegas Movie Studio + DVD in the UK. I can't find many UK suppliers - I'm a little old fashioned and prefer to buy a box containing a CD and a manual!

    Philip
     
  14. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    I've only ever purchased Vegas as a download as to get the updates you have to download another full version anyway. They don't do patches.
     
  15. melliott1963

    melliott1963
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    I've just been reading through this thread. Thanks for giving me a good laugh :D

    I had Studio since version 1. Every time a new release came out I bought it in the hope it would be more stable, and every time I was proved wrong. I gave up with it after version 9. I therefore see no reason why version 10 should be any different.


    Philip. If you want a boxed copy of Vegas, here's a list of UK resellers:-

    http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/partners/intldealers.asp?country=UK

    I got my copy of Vegas (the full version) from Shop4Sony and found them to be very helpful. I was even able to knock them down in price, so don't necessarily take the first price they quote as being what you'll end up paying.
     
  16. PhilipC

    PhilipC
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    Thanks. I had checked the quoted list of dealers and looked at their websites. Few of them sell the Vegas Music Studio - they all aim at the pro markets and sell the high end products. Anyway, I'll give Shop4Sony a call.

    Philip
     
  17. AndrewB

    AndrewB
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    You must have made a mistake with your project settings. If there are no effects it should render on your system in not much more than real time. I have a full version of Premiere 6 running on a 4 year old PC. It is however vital to make sure that you are capturing and outputting with identical settings as far as pixel ratio, frame size, frame rate, audio etc are concerned. This will avoid re-rendering of material that has not been changed.

    Andrew
     
  18. PhilipC

    PhilipC
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    OK, now I've just used Elements Tryout with another capture file. This time the file was 1m 43s of movie. I rendered it to MS DV-AVI format and noticed in the settings dialog box that it was defaulting to something other than the 16:9 widescreen that the captured movie was filmed in. So I set it to 16:9 (PAL) and it rendered in 2m 04s.

    So, did my earlier 2m 30s video take 48m to render because the system was converting each 16:9 frame (i.e. all of the movie) to narrowscreen?

    Presumably saving to DVD format would slow the system down because it has to compress the information to 4.7GB? But how much slower?

    (It is rather frustrating that the Tryout version doesn't allow you to produce DVDs when that's what most of my efforts will end up as!)

    Perhaps I've taken this thread as far as I should. Thanks to those who have made suggestions - it's been very useful for a newcomer like me. Just 2 questions if anyone still feels like answering them:

    1 How much slower is rendering to DVD format than to DV-AVI format?

    2 If anyone has used both Premier Elements and Vegas Movie Studio, would they be able to say if one is better as far as speed and image quality is concerned (I'm not so worried about the number of effects, titles, etc)?
     
  19. PhilipC

    PhilipC
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    Vonhosen, thanks for your suggestion of Vegas Movie Studio. Having been pleased with the trial version I bought the full Movie Studio + DVD package and it works with no problem. I'm very pleased with it so far.

    Thanks

    Philip
     
  20. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    Glad you are having some success at last.
     

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