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Problem with MS Genie Package - Please Help!!

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by IanMcc, Feb 14, 2005.

  1. IanMcc

    IanMcc
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    Hi

    I have just set-up my Yamaha 750 amp and MS Genie Package at the weekend, and as a complete novice I have been finding the set-up very confusing. I ran the auto set-up and everything seemed fine on Saturday night for the hour that I used the system. I played a bit of IRobot and was hugely impressed, but while music performance was good, I was not as impressed.

    Then on Sunday morning I turned the system on and put in a DVD of Heat, and in the scene at the start which has the sound of a train building up gradually, I noticed that the sound from the front left speaker sounded a bit rough. I have swapped this speaker round to the right, and am still getting the same problem, so it is definitely a problem with the speaker. When you listen closely, I think the tweeter is OK, but the main cone is definitely distorting and sounds very rough.

    Is it possible that I have somehow damaged the speaker, or have I just been unlucky to get a bad speaker?

    Ian
     
  2. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    It is unlikely you damaged it- unless you were in the "+" section of the Yamaha volume level where the distortion creeps in, but it may have suffered from shipping damge which has happened on one or two occasions- after we have finished with our bit of the shipping I hasten to add. I would simply encourage you to get the offending speaker swapped ASAP (you may be asked to swap a pair for packaging reasons) and hopefully get on with listening to them.
    Ed
     
  3. Sly

    Sly
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    hey tons will you be demoing the genies at the bristol show?
     
  4. IanMcc

    IanMcc
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    Hi Tons of Fun,

    Thanks for the response. I was definitely not in the + db range.

    I have now removed the offending speaker and am going to get it replaced. I have switched what were the rears to the front to listen to music in the meantime, however the front speakers are starting to distort at what I would not consider an unusually high level of volume. I chose some dance tracks with an emphasis on bass and when the volume reaches about -17db, the front speakers start to make a harsh vibrating sound. Up until this point they sound very clean and are suberb to listen to, but I am now paranoid about turning the volume up past -17 db, even though I would like to listen at a louder volume. Surely speakers of this sort of calibre should be able to take higher volume levels?

    Any ideas, as I am really worried? :(

    Regards, Ian
     
  5. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    Sly- MS aren't going to the show this year due to some timing clashes (and other things). Denon might have a set though and I'll be out on the friday.


    Ian, what you are describing is really odd and not good. It is possible that you might be actually running out of headroom on the Yamaha and this is what you are hearing rather than the speakers. They are not the easiest of speakers to drive and given what levels we can achieve with our SR12 (and the rating of the Genie's) you might have a different culprit.
     
  6. IanMcc

    IanMcc
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    Hi Tons of Fun,

    Excuse my ignorance, but what is an SR12, and by "rating of the genies" do you mean impedance, as this also has me confused? The Yamaha manual refers to a switch on the back which seems to depend on the impedance of the speakers you are using, but whereas most speakers seem to have a clear rating, the Genie Website quotes 4 - 8 ohms, which leaves me unclear as to where I should set the switch. Do you know what the actual rating for the Genies is? Maybe this switch is the reason for my problem.

    Thanks again,

    Ian
     
  7. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    The speakers are rated to 100w but we are extremely conservative in our ratings. The SR12 is a flagship Marantz AV receiver we use for testing and showing off that puts out 170w into all 7 channels- we haven't damaged any genie even when using this thing at full tilt. My suspiscion is that the Yamaha is running out of current which is causing the degreadation in sound. For the record the impedance switch is best set to 4ohms.
     
  8. IanMcc

    IanMcc
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    Thanks for replying again

    Are you saying that the Yamaha may not be a powerful enough amp to drive the Genies? I have read in numerous articles that the Yamaha 750 it is particularly suited to the Genies, so either I have faulty speakers or have set it up completely wrong.

    I took the faulty speaker into Richer Sounds today, and the guy said it sounded like I had blown it!! He asked had I played it really loud and I said I had played it at -17db on my amp, which was not really that loud to my ear.
    He is sending it back, but said I would have to pay for a repair if it was blown. :mad:

    I am absolutely astonished as this is my first foray into the world of separates after using a Sony Mini System to play music for years. I have now splashed out £1500 on Speakers / Amp / CD / Cables and I am now one speaker short! Also, when playing music through the sub and 2 front speakers I am now paranoid about blowing the remaining speakers, which is not what you would expect with this outlay.

    I have also just changed the switch at the back of the amp to the left for 4 Ohms as per your advice, but it does not appear to have made much difference. Again not impressed with instructions - Yamaha manual mentions the switch but 4- 8 Ohms is quoted on Mordaunt Short Website - ambiguous to say the least!!

    Do you think I should be looking at another more powerful amp, or have I just got to accept there are limits to how loud I can play the Genies?

    Ian
     
  9. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    The short answer is that I do not know exactly. My time spent with a '750 such as it is has been pretty limited and not all that recent (about November time) so I do not know what the physical limitations of the unit are. Always remember that an amp rated at "100wx7" unless face bendingly expensive is likely to be putting out considerably less power under load because of the limitations of the transformer- this could mean that the amp is not powerful enough for your requirements but I simply do not know. There is also the possibility that the speaker left the QC with a weakness only exposed after more running- if we accept we have now built just over 7000 packs, that is 28,000 MS402's with 28,000 voice coils which allowing for a fail rate of 2% (adopted by player far larger than ourselves) is still sadly 560 MS402's that might be sounding a bit sick.

    I am however dissapointed with the attitude of the store- PM me which one it is and your real name and I will knock some heads.
     
  10. Imadreamer

    Imadreamer
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    Sorry, hi-jacking the thread but I am about to connect an AVR-2805 to a set of Genies. Should this amp be up-to-it in the power stakes?

    Thanks
     
  11. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    Thus far, most of the owners seem happy- the setup on the 2805 seems pretty tricky though so you have been warned!
     
  12. adrianl

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    Darn it - I'm considering same combo of 2805 + Genies after endless review reading/forum watching.

    What's tricky about the set-up, especially as I understood the auto set-up of the 2805 did a pretty good job?

    If not the 2805 then what, given problems alluded to with the Yamaha? I was sure going with Denon was a good move.

    Thanks for any advice,

    Adrian
     
  13. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    Cards on the table time- I dislike Auto Setups and regard them as better than no setup at all but only just. MCCAC, MRAC and whatever the other ones are called can usually be outperformed by my neighbours' grandson with a tape measure and a Genie SPL metre. And he is two.

    The 2805 is no worse than most of the amps in this catagory but it has umpteen speaker setup menu's spread lavishly over several pages so the tweaking of the Auto Setup results (and you will need to tweak them) is time consuming and a bit confusing. I had to take the unusual step recently of asking Denon for copies of the manual to familiarise myself with it due to the number of calls.

    On the plus side, the amp sounds great, is well bolted together and is very well featured, which is when it boils down to it, what matters.
     
  14. adrianl

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    Thanks Tons of Fun. May be wishful thinking but perhaps to get round receiver manufacturers' sometimes confusing instructions is it possible to post to the forum a 'quickstart' guide to setting up Genies with the main brands drawing on experience of customer calls to flag up key options to choose, pitfalls etc?
     
  15. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    Well, I'm not without other things to do but we shall see.......
     
  16. Kazman

    Kazman
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    I found the MRAC to be quite accurate with my setup, it was a couple of db out on a channel or two, but apart from that, it got the levels spot on. I increased the sub level a tad though, as I prefer a bit more oomph, otherwise it was spot on :)

    I think a lot of it is room dependant as well, some rooms are just louder than others at different nodes. I'm just lucky my room is relatively well behaved. :D
     
  17. John

    John
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    Do the Genies need to be set to "small" on the amp ? Could that be the problem ?
    JS
     
  18. IanMcc

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    Thanks, but the Genies are already set to small. I have checked every conceivable option and things are just not improving.

    In addition, I am now finding that the sub can sometimes take over 30 seconds to turn itself on, at which point you are well into playing a track!! :(

    Tonight I have resorted to setting my 7 year old Sony Mini system up again, as I have now discovered that I cannot even play music through my PC's sound card. The MP3's will play, but things just dont sound right, and every so often the sound cuts out to be replaced by an electronic beep, but I am pretty certain this is actually the amp's fault (Yamaha 750).

    Never before have I felt so completely disappointed with anything I have bought, and will be trying to return the amp ASAP. I cannot really consider returning the Genies, as I bought them 6 weeks ago, but did not get them going until last weekend, and I am also a speaker short.

    Ian
     
  19. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    Ian- never let it be said that I want people lumbered with stuff they don't want- if you wish to return the Genies I will see what I can do to assist you.
     
  20. imichael

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    I've got the same set up and -17db is LOUD. I think you must be unlucky with either a duff set of speakers, amp or both. I have mine set at 8ohms, but will give 4 a try this weekend to see what difference it makes.

    Have you checked the speaker levels, the amp may be boosting them high depending on where you place the mic for set up.
     
  21. Geezer

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    I have never understood why people persist in using the Auto on , on the subwoofer. I have always left mine on the whole time.
     
  22. IanMcc

    IanMcc
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    It is interesting to see that a lot of people are unsure where to set the 4 ohm / 8 ohm switch - at first I thought I was stupid for not knowing, but it appears a lot of people are unsure. I found that the instructions leave a lot to be desired.
    I was playing some different Cd's last night and did not go past -22db so the Cd I was playing at -17db must have been a lower recording, although I am probably also now being extra careful.
    I have checked the speaker levels Fronts +1.5, Sub + 2.0

    I will not "persist" in using the "auto on" if I find it does not work properly, but if the feature is there I do not see why I cannot choose to use it if I wish.
     
  23. Sly

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    just my luck!!
    i will be going on the friday as long as i can get my car fixed (damn fiats!)so i will ave a look on the denon stand.its a pain that no one in the west midlands has them to demo really.
     

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