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Problem with DVD player and projector in Progressive scan

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Italo Tettoni, Jun 4, 2004.

  1. Italo Tettoni

    Italo Tettoni
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    I have a problem and I need some advice from the wise people of the forum.

    I have an Hitachi PJ-TX10 projector and a Toshiba SD-900EE DVD player. In
    'Progressive' mode I get what looks like electrical intereference on the
    signal (waves accross the image) and I am unable to get into the setup menu
    of the player. In 'Interlaced' mode the wave like interference is almost
    nonexistent (but still there) and I can get into the setup menu OK.

    The player has been sent for service and the 'robot' from Toshiba got on the
    phone today and tried to convince me that it is the projectors fault, the
    DVD player is fine (can't find anything wrong) and that it's some sort of
    incompatibility between the player and the projector.

    Incompatibility? Isn't Component 'Progressive' a DVD standard like a
    Composite/Svideo/RGB Scart connection? What possible 'incompatibility' could
    he be talking about, or is just useless as 2 tits on a ball? I'd also like
    to add that I have spend big on high quality Component cables and I have
    also tested the projector with (a rented) bottom-of-the-line SONY
    'Progressive' DVD player which worked perfectly.

    Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

    cheers
    --
    Italo
     
  2. G a f f e r

    G a f f e r
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    I had exactly the same problem mate.
    Read this thread:
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124780&highlight=gaffer74

    Firstly some background:
    ALL projectors have built in deinterlacers that convert all inputs to progressive scan before processing further. The LCD/DLP technology requires a progressive picture to work. This means that even a humble interlaced composite (read as comp-o-sh*t) input goes into the projector, gets converted by the projector to prog scan, gets then finally displayed as a prog scan piccie.
    If you input a prog scan piccie initially, the projector detects this and simply switches it's own one off. The reason this is meant to be better is because a dvd player with this capability makes the prog scan piccie whilst the data is still in the digital form, this prog scan data is then converted to analogue and , for instance, sent down a component lead to the projector.
    Whereas a projector that is fed interlaced, gets an analogue signal complete with a few signal losses/degredation and attempts to recreate the digital signal from that before making it progressive....so the thinking is that a dvd players prog scan is "purer/cleaner" than a projectors.
    )

    Back to the point, It boils down to the fact that what you're getting is the dvd sending out a prog picture but it is being interfered with with your dvd players macrovision signals. Most projectors cannot cope with this (ie doesn't happen with plasma's) and you get the lines. They are not really interference like RFI because they are constant for any given frame (ie if you press pause, the interfence will stay unchanging, ie it is a function of that individual scene.....the next frame will have it's own pattern and so on......unlike rfi which is completely random).
    It is NOT an earth loop either.
    It is NOT due to signal degredation from your cables.
    It is because macrovison and PAL progressive do not mix with projectors.
    Wanna test it? Stick in a superbit disc (which doesn't have macrovision encoded into it) and the piccie will be pristine.

    2 solutions:
    a: get a macrovision hack for your dvd player
    b: stick with interlaced for PAL signals and let the projector do the progressive (remember, you'll always see a prog scan picture with a projector, regardless of the input).
    Bizarrely, the above doesn't hold true for NTSC discs, which can display prog scan beautifully. Your sony may be converting the PAL to NTSC before making it progressive (pioneers also do this) so it is actually always sending 480p to the projector which is fine, whereas the tosh (like my jamo) is actually sending 576p with no conversion to ntsc and it is 576p alone that projectors have problems with due to interference from macrovison.

    Of course I could be talking rubbish :D (in which case the av experts reading this forum can correct me for any errors), but i spent a long time trying to sort this out and the above is the conclusion I came to (like any theory it can be tested [by doing the 'superbit' test above]).

    Good luck
     
  3. gandley

    gandley
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    Just to mention that the toshiba 900 is NTSC progressive only,

    it does a quasi type thing with pal which is terrible.

    Dont let the dvd player do pal prog. only NTSC prog.
     
  4. gandley

    gandley
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    it realy does sound as though its broken. I use to have one of these and the pic was rock solid, in fact it had one of the best NTSC prog images i had seen till all this HDMI/DVI stuff came along. No wave like interfearence at all.

    Have you tried the unit on a friends display to see if the same happens? If so then it is faulty.
     

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