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problem room

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Buying & Building' started by spamboy, May 31, 2005.

  1. spamboy

    spamboy
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    I've finally cleared out the room that is going to become my home cinema and I've got a bit of a problem, acoustics wise. It's 16'x15'6", low ceiling, in the basement with 18" thick walls to either of the neighbours so I guess that soundproofing isn't too much of an issue. At the moment the floor is tiled and it has a strange hi pitched reverberating echo (not quite sure how to describe it, but it sounds odd). All the walls are brick.

    I'd like to canvass some opinions on what to do. I was thinking of doing the room in a room thing, but I guess it's overkill and I'll loose a lot of space (particually height). I plan on soundproofing the ceiling by either blowing or laying insulation between the joists and adding a layer of plasterboard and green glue to the ceiling, plus I'm going to add another door on the outside of the door frame and seal the gaps (the internal walls are 10" thick so there's a nice airgap there. My wife wants a suspended ceiling that doesn't reach all the way to the edge of the room. The gap will then be illuminated - sounds odd but we a friend's flat had it done (minus the lighting) and it looked great.

    I'm getting pushed to lay a wooden floor, although we'll put rugs on it.

    I'm planning on making acoustic panels to line the side walls (btw. does anyone know where to get suede effect material that's acoutically transparent - microfibre?) and am thinking of putting skylines on the back - partially for acoustics, partially because the look cool.

    Anyway a few questions, I have the option of having a plastered or fabric ceiling, If I go for fabric I can put sound absorbing material beneath it - will this be of any benefit.

    I wasn't planning to deaden the wall behing the screen, mainly because I want to limit the number of panels I have to make - will this couse me problems? Would it be better if I did?

    Anything else I should do? Anything here I shouldn't?
     
  2. mattym

    mattym
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    Hi

    Cant comment on the material, dont know what it is, i can have a look see tomorrow,

    It is better for home cinema to have the screen wall absorbing, though if you place some behind the speakers it will have an affect, this will keep your costs down a little, you can use absorbers on the ceiling, im not 100% sure what effect that will have as i have not been in a room with a very absorbing ceiling(only suspended ceilings with acoustic tiles in) its best to try and keep some of it untreated to give a little life to the room, ive seen a call center that had too much in the ceiling, the acoustician had to use less absorbor.

    if your using skylines on the back wall(which i cant recommend enough, of course)then you will have good diffusion from those(and some useful low frequncy absorption too)
     
  3. mattym

    mattym
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  4. spamboy

    spamboy
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    Matty,

    That material sounds interesting, do you re-sell it?

    I can do the screen wall too if it's important, in fact it looks like I'm going to end up doing the whole room after all...

    On the back wall how much of the area should be covered with skylines for optimum effect, to make things more difficult, it's got a chimnet breast in it, but I'm probably going to box in the alcoves to make cupboards (incidentally making the room perfectly square - doh!) and can put diffusers \ absorbtion on the front.

    Thanks,

    SB.
     
  5. mattym

    mattym
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    making the room square will make it difficult to get right, normally skylines are placed in groups of 4 or 6, 4 will probably fit on your chimney breast, you could do some DIY bass traps in the cupboard if you have the space,


    http://samples.interfacefabrics.com/
    look at Velvitine fabric there, thats not far off suede look(though more velvet)its made from microfibres though so might be the one you mean?

    you dont have to cover the whole of the screen wall, you could make yourself some panels to go on it that are larger than the speakers, place them on the wall behind the speakers, this will have some effect, Also absorbors at the first reflection point will make a difference too, you may not need to treat all the walls unless you want a dead room feel to the sound, DIY panels will stick out more than the material we use, others would intrude 25mm or thereabouts into the room, but then again if your going to get skylines i suppose it wont matter, they stick out a bit to.



    Dont forget to check the powerbuys for skyline prices, i will check to make sure the prices are still correct.
     
  6. spamboy

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    I've put in a request for some samples, thanks again.

    Don't worry, I'm well aware of the powerbuy :thumbsup:
     
  7. mattym

    mattym
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    No probs.

    dont forget to look at the absorbor powerbuy too....
     
  8. NoiseStopSystem

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    If you have an absorbent ceiling done correctly you should see approx a 50% absorbtion of the reflectional sound within the room. For most people this creates a nice balance for the acoustics.

    Obviously a strip wood floor would be reflective so I wouldn't recommend it with a a plastered ceiling! You will also find that the room size you have is naturally bad for acoustics a square with the ceiling height half the length, etc...
     
  9. alexs2

    alexs2
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    It may be worth taking a look at Rules 7 & 10 of the forum rules section with respect to your posts

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/view.php?pg=rules

    Advice is certainly most welcome however.
     
  10. spamboy

    spamboy
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    So how do you do an absorbent ceiling correctly? I've done a fair amount of reading into self built absorbers (using mineral wool mainly) and I've got a fair amount of high density mineral wool (50mm I think) available - would this do as a dampening material? Should I do the whole ceiling?

    I know the room proportions are bad, but what would you recommend to correct this?

    Thanks,

    SB
     
  11. mattym

    mattym
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    Its not normally the ceiling that is treated for acoustic tailoring, a floating ceiling would do for soundproofing

    treating a ceiling with diffusion is normally the way, you will have rugs on the floor so the floor wont be too reflective, the reflection points on the wall are what you will want to treat, your DIY absorbors will be more than adequate for the purpose.

    Do a search for floating ceiling, i think someone explained how they are done already

    read this for square room summary..

    http://www.wilsonaudio.com/technotes/roomacoustics.shtml
     
  12. spamboy

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    Matty,

    I've got hold of some of that velvetine material and it's nice, if it came in the colour we wanted... were thinking of changing the colour scheme of the room to accomodate it untill I came across synthetic suedes. There are several products, novasuede, alcantara and others. Getting samples now...

    Do you think it'd be better to use mineral wool or acoustic foam to make absorbers? I was going to make wood framed absorbers with bevelled edges but I've been instructed that the material stretched over a foam panel with gently curved edges would be better. Which will absorb sound better?

    Thanks,

    SB
     
  13. mattym

    mattym
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    was it the cloth supplier who told you that?

    it depends what frequencies you want to absorb, you could buy 35mm foam from some suppliers, on requesting acoustic data they may go quiet, if you have a particular frequency that is a problem you can target that frequency by searching out the various co-efficients of different materials.

    Generally speaking, thin foam is inefficient, thicker foam specifically made for acoustic purposes will be more efficient, and ultimately more expensive, or you can get floor slab from wickes, it will be better over a broader frequency range than standard non acoustic foams, and might even be cheaper. you could also by bespoke panels from manufacturers, depends how deep your pockets are!

    As regards the edges, you can make a frame and sand it so its round, or buy ready made wood with rounded edges, past experience of foam makes me wary!
     
  14. patco

    patco
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    Did you see acousticraft panels? They are both absorbent & scattering in shallow size
     
  15. mattym

    mattym
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    acousticraft? never heard of them before, google turns up a piano restoration company?
     
  16. patco

    patco
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    I've seen these on the site: www.image-in.co.uk. The appearance looks nice for the WAF
     
  17. mattym

    mattym
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    ahh ic, very similar in style to a few options that my company offers, but i cant mention the product, lol
     
  18. spamboy

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    I think I've decided to try making some rockwool panels covered in novasuede (or similar) - it's faux suede used in car interiors and the like. It's not perfect in terms of permeability, but it does pass some air through it and it looks good. I've subsequently noticed some professional installations (e.g. these guys http://www.poundstv.co.uk/) use similar stuff. I'll cover most of the screen wall and sidewalls with these.

    Still planning to use skylines on the back wall (Matt - when I get to the appropriate stage, I'll get in touch)

    Still not sure about the ceiling though...

    If you're looking for the stuff, Don at Marine interiors www.marine-interiors.co.uk has been very helpful to me.

    novasuede website http://www.majilite.com
    alcantara - similar http://www.alcantara.it/
    ultrasuede - http://www.ultrasuede.com/
    or cheaper versions http://www.rmdaudio.co.uk/Products-pages/Materials-page/Material-main.htm
     
  19. mattym

    mattym
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    good stuff spamboy, some excellent links there!

    i await your call!
     

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