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Price Increases of Some Electricals Double following Brexit

mushroomkid

Active Member
Evidence?? Jesus just open yours eyes and see the evidence for yourself. Why not walk to your nearest Newsagents and buy a paper instead of sending your butler. you sound like another blinkered left wing. You only have to see how many EU migrants are on our streets, town, schools, work places. We have a shortage of housing and schools, what does that say? Don't say it's the lack of funding by the government either, it's plane as day to see how the our population has grown.


Do not tell me we're not being swamped by EU migrants.
Anecdotal evidence is the best sort of evidence!
 

mackdaddy

Active Member
Evidence?? Jesus just open yours eyes and see the evidence for yourself. Why not walk to your nearest Newsagents and buy a paper instead of sending your butler. you sound like another blinkered left wing. You only have to see how many EU migrants are on our streets, town, schools, work places. We have a shortage of housing and schools, what does that say? Don't say it's the lack of funding by the government either, it's plane as day to see how the our population has grown.


Do not tell me we're not being swamped by EU migrants.
When I walk to my nearest newsagents ~90% of the population I pass are 'native' British. I might see the friendly old Italian couple who have been living in the UK since before I was born. And then there's the Oz lady from across the road.

Where I lived previously, en-route to the local shops I'd pass many second generation Indian, Somalian and African people.

As @mushroomkid alludes to, one's own perceptions of a situation aren't necessarily a correct reflection on the state of affairs. My own first-hand experience of the day-to-day effects of EU migration are that it is nothing but good for the country. However, I know there are many EU-migration related issues that I am not being exposed to in everyday life.

I feel sorry that you feel EU migration has led to such grave issues in the UK. I also find it ironic that you're a football fan (and evidently have a soft spot for an Argentine migrant who obtained Spanish citizenship), but are hating on EU migration to the UK.
 

messimagician

Active Member
When I walk to my nearest newsagents ~90% of the population I pass are 'native' British. I might see the friendly old Italian couple who have been living in the UK since before I was born. And then there's the Oz lady from across the road.

Where I lived previously, en-route to the local shops I'd pass many second generation Indian, Somalian and African people.

As @mushroomkid alludes to, one's own perceptions of a situation aren't necessarily a correct reflection on the state of affairs. My own first-hand experience of the day-to-day effects of EU migration are that it is nothing but good for the country. However, I know there are many EU-migration related issues that I am not being exposed to in everyday life.

I feel sorry that you feel EU migration has led to such grave issues in the UK. I also find it ironic that you're a football fan (and evidently have a soft spot for an Argentine migrant who obtained Spanish citizenship), but are hating on EU migration to the UK.
Did I say I agree with him getting citizenship? Football is another matter. I'm actually an Arsenal supporter which had more French players than English at one point, do I agree with it? No I bloody well don't. It's a disgrace how we have a lack of English players today playing in our teams, it's pretty sad.

Maybe where you live isn't too bad, but you get on a bus or go in to town like Manchester or London and I can tell you it's a different story.

Secondly how many EU migrants do you have in your work place?

Where I work we have work force of 750 people, at least half of them or more are EU migrants mainly from Poland, then we have Romanians with a few Latvians

Indians have been living here a long time from when I were a kid. I'm talking about the Romanians and Polish that have poured over.

I hardly watch the news these days because it's full of crap but I believe the town Boston has been hugely affected according to it.

The fact that we have people up and down the country who are fed up with the situation tells you
 

GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
Evidence?? Jesus just open yours eyes and see the evidence for yourself. Why not walk to your nearest Newsagents and buy a paper instead of sending your butler. you sound like another blinkered left wing. You only have to see how many EU migrants are on our streets, town, schools, work places. We have a shortage of housing and schools, what does that say? Don't say it's the lack of funding by the government either, it's plane as day to see how the our population has grown.

Do not tell me we're not being swamped by EU migrants.
Most European migrants are white - so I am curious how do you spot them on the street and in schools, etc. (This is a rhetorical question.)

Obviously EU migration is a factor in a shortage of housing but how big a factor is it?

Over the years there have been a number of factors that affect pressure on the housing stock and we need to take all of those into account:
(1) House building - in 1970 there were around 400,000 new homes built a year. That figure has fallen steadily since then and is now around 125,000.
(2) Household size - in 1961 it was 3.1 now it is 2.4. So even if the population size remained constant in that time we would require 30% more households now than we did in 1961.
(3) Population growth - as stated before total migration to the UK since 1963 has been around 17 million. However, the vast majority of those migrants have been from outside the EU. (In recent years EU migration has risen significantly but is still not as high as non-EU migration.)

So EU migration is the smaller part of just one of those factors.

EU citizens account for around 5% of the total UK population. As to your statement "Do not tell me we're not being swamped by EU migrants." I can only conclude that to you, 5% of the population being from the EU, equates to being "swamped".

Schools (and the number of children) is an interesting area. Migrants tend to be younger and have more children. However, given that the country is facing a rapidly ageing population I see the increase in the number of young people as a benefit.

If you feel that the UK is "swamped" then you must feel really sorry for countries like France where the population growth, primarily from immigration, has been more significant than in the UK.
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messimagician

Active Member
Listen, you can throw up as many stats or graphs you like where ever you got them from. I can see with my own eyes what's happening in this country.

How can I tell if they're EU migrants if the majority of them are white you ask? because you can hear them talking Polish or Romanian. I hear and see it enough in my work place and town to know
 

mushroomkid

Active Member
Listen, you can throw up as many stats or graphs you like where ever you got them from. I can see with my own eyes what's happening in this country.

How can I tell if they're EU migrants if the majority of them are white you ask? because you can hear them talking Polish or Romanian. I hear and see it enough in my work place and town to know
I read that as "get out of here with your witchcraft!"

Surely this is a troll. Facts, figures and stats are being presented but "muhhh eyes I see different"
 

messimagician

Active Member
I read that as "get out of here with your witchcraft!"

Surely this is a troll. Facts, figures and stats are being presented but "muhhh eyes I see different"
Stats are not the be all end all, do you think that stats don't get manipulated?

You keep taking them mushrooms kid, your obviously too oblivious to what's happening around you
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
It's reassuring to know that you trust your own eyes, they must be in excellent working order.

But we're not disputing the accuracy or otherwise of your eyesight, there seems to be some doubt over your personal perception versus factual data.

As they say in the press, "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story" (Mark Twain). Why do you see immigration as automatically a bad thing? Why not assume the best in people - that they are here to make a positive contribution to British society as well as further their own lives?

You sound afraid of what immigrants may potentially take away from you, but it could be argued that it's all a matter of perspective. Scapegoating of "horrible foreigners" has been going on since the first wave of immigration in the 1950's from our colonies. They were invited and encouraged to come here to help rebuild the country after the War effort and did an extremely fine job.

And I don't have a butler and don't believe in servitude. And it's "plain", not plane.
 
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messimagician

Active Member
Factual data? The news? Don't make me laugh.

Yes immigrants make it harder to find jobs.

Immigrants are being exploited by companies to drive wages down.

Companies now treat workers as numbers, they know they can replace their workers just like that.

I prefer the days you could walk out a job you no longer liked into another, well it's a damn sight harder now
 

GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
Factual data? The news? Don't make me laugh.

Yes immigrants make it harder to find jobs.

Immigrants are being exploited by companies to drive wages down.

Companies now treat workers as numbers, they know they can replace their workers just like that.

I prefer the days you could walk out a job you no longer liked into another, well it's a damn sight harder now
You point out that a large proportion of your workforce are from the EU as if that is somehow negative. My team at work is about 40% EU nationals and I just cannot understand why anyone would regard that as a bad thing?

Unless you are the kind of person that believes in what economists call the "Lump of Work Fallacy." This is the idea that if say, 1 million immigrants come into the country and get jobs, that there must the be 1 million fewer jobs for the existing residents. Given your statement "Yes immigrants make it harder to find jobs." I suppose that you are.

The right of freedom of movement around the EU works both ways - just as I know plenty of EU nationals who work in the UK I know plenty of UK nationals who have gone to live and work in Europe. Getting rid of freedom of movement means taking away a valuable right from everyone in the UK. That is why I am hoping that the EU will stick by their (reasonable) line that a country must accept all 4 freedoms or get none of them at all.

I stand by the stats that I have used as they are from reputable sources. Nobody who is providing those stats has any interest in biasing them one way or the other. (BTW I have never heard of a graph described as "poncy" before. I am not sure how a graph that shows something as simple as population in the UK and France can be "poncy".) Are you seriously suggesting that someone (or rather a large group of people as it would need to be a major conspiracy) has been manipulating population figures for France and the UK for the past 40 years just to make the figures somehow more pro-European? Why does the graph upset you - is it because you believe that somehow the UK has been "overrun" with immigrants in a way that other countries have not so any evidence that other countries have had more immigrants cannot be true as it goes against your world view?

So you say you don't trust factual data or the news? Did you believe any of the things being put forward by the Brexit campaign - for example that the country could save £350 million a week by voting for Brexit?

I use that example, because it is one of the easiest to shoot down as it was so ridiculously stupid. Firstly, we have never paid £350 million a week in the first place - the net figure is more like £175 million a week. Secondly, only an idiot would be fooled into thinking think that if we wanted to leave the EU but still wanted access to the free market that you could stop paying toward the EU budget. All countries that have access to the European free market have to contribute to the EU budget, irrespective of whether they are members of the EU. (Norway and Switzerland are examples of non EU countries that pay into the EU budget.) In fact the likeliest outcome of Brexit is that we will end up paying more into the EU budget as a result of leaving the EU as the contribution is based upon the size of the economy and we would lose the £5 billion rebate that Maggie Thatcher negotiated.

Nobody who voted for Brexit though can claim that they were in any misled about the £350 million a week claim - unless they also admit to being the kind of person who blindly believes anything a politician tells them - even when it is incredibly easy to check the truth of the situation.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
You point out that a large proportion of your workforce are from the EU as if that is somehow negative. My team at work is about 40% EU nationals and I just cannot understand why anyone would regard that as a bad thing?

Unless you are the kind of person that believes in what economists call the "Lump of Work Fallacy." This is the idea that if say, 1 million immigrants come into the country and get jobs, that there must the be 1 million fewer jobs for the existing residents. Given your statement "Yes immigrants make it harder to find jobs." I suppose that you are.

The right of freedom of movement around the EU works both ways - just as I know plenty of EU nationals who work in the UK I know plenty of UK nationals who have gone to live and work in Europe. Getting rid of freedom of movement means taking away a valuable right from everyone in the UK. That is why I am hoping that the EU will stick by their (reasonable) line that a country must accept all 4 freedoms or get none of them at all.

I stand by the stats that I have used as they are from reputable sources. Nobody who is providing those stats has any interest in biasing them one way or the other. (BTW I have never heard of a graph described as "poncy" before. I am not sure how a graph that shows something as simple as population in the UK and France can be "poncy".) Are you seriously suggesting that someone (or rather a large group of people as it would need to be a major conspiracy) has been manipulating population figures for France and the UK for the past 40 years just to make the figures somehow more pro-European? Why does the graph upset you - is it because you believe that somehow the UK has been "overrun" with immigrants in a way that other countries have not so any evidence that other countries have had more immigrants cannot be true as it goes against your world view?

So you say you don't trust factual data or the news? Did you believe any of the things being put forward by the Brexit campaign - for example that the country could save £350 million a week by voting for Brexit?

I use that example, because it is one of the easiest to shoot down as it was so ridiculously stupid. Firstly, we have never paid £350 million a week in the first place - the net figure is more like £175 million a week. Secondly, only an idiot would be fooled into thinking think that if we wanted to leave the EU but still wanted access to the free market that you could stop paying toward the EU budget. All countries that have access to the European free market have to contribute to the EU budget, irrespective of whether they are members of the EU. (Norway and Switzerland are examples of non EU countries that pay into the EU budget.) In fact the likeliest outcome of Brexit is that we will end up paying more into the EU budget as a result of leaving the EU as the contribution is based upon the size of the economy and we would lose the £5 billion rebate that Maggie Thatcher negotiated.

Nobody who voted for Brexit though can claim that they were in any misled about the £350 million a week claim - unless they also admit to being the kind of person who blindly believes anything a politician tells them - even when it is incredibly easy to check the truth of the situation.
A politician? You mean Nigel Farage? :rotfl:
 

messimagician

Active Member
So what your saying is that 1 million jobs taken by EU migrants doesn't effect the British people in slightest?

I'm not sure what industry you work in but 15 years ago you would be on at least £10 an hour in manufacturing.

Now your looking at just above minimum wage

All these multi million pound businesses love migrant workers because they can exploit them, it helps to drive down wages, they won't question anything because they don't know their rights at all.
I've seen it first hand and I'm sure it goes on in a lot of other places too.

No one benefits except large companies with freedom of movement

A friend at my work use to work in Spain doing engineering, from the sounds of it they're just as welcoming... Not!

I'm not sure anyone would want to leave Britain to go work in Poland or Romania unless you had a business yourself or was in a sector where you earn big bucks, what's their minimum wage? secondly you would have to try find a job which is why a lot of people leave in the first place.
 

christopher101

Active Member
This is exactly why Britain is in the state it's in today, everybody moaning, the decision has been made, time to get on with it.
 

GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
This is exactly why Britain is in the state it's in today, everybody moaning, the decision has been made, time to get on with it.
Yes. The decision has been made to leave the EU.

No decision has been made as to how we leave the EU. For example, it seems likely that we would leave and request access to the free markets and then still have to take freedom of movement. (As you cannot have one without the other.)

Nobody who voted for Brexit could complain about such a deal as the question was "Do you want to leave the EU" it was not "Do you want to end freedom of movement?"
 

dr no

Moderator
This thread has strayed off a little bit ;)
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
This thread has strayed off a little bit ;)
Agreed.

But it was pointed out prior to the referendum that this would be a likely consequence of leaving, so anyone who voted to leave and is now complaining about price rises and sterling uncertainty doesn't really have a leg to stand on.

But I'm sure short term pain will be worth long term gain, or something like that anyway....
 

GadgetObsessed

Well-known Member
Isn't this a load of crap? If anything electricals are dropping in price
The point is not so that prices have risen yet but that the expectation is that they will rise soon.

A number of retailers, such as John Lewis have already stated that they will have to start raising prices from the end of this year. That is probably when their currency hedges (that protect them from changes in exchange rates) run out.

Given that sterling has fallen by around 15% against the dollar and that most electronics are priced in dollars, a rise in prices of around 15% seems a reasonable expectation.
 

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