Premier League 20/21

SteveAWOL

Distinguished Member
Exactly what I was getting at yesterday. How was David Luiz deemed able to go back on? I thought the protocols had changed.

Yes that's gonna be very risky now for Jimenez. Certainly won't ever be the same player; and given the increased awareness of dementia now I'd be surprised to see him in the thick of it again.
Yup, that injury alone might have already condemned him to dementia in later life.


No wonder they were scathing on MotD last night.

 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
Yep, always a shame. Won't write him off just yet, but as a forward player that's a very worrying injury. And given how much he's going to get clattered in future if he returns.

It would also be terrible if you were a defender and you bashed heads with him causing further injury.

A lot of considerations.
Cech made a return from a fractured skull (debatable whether he was the same standard after) with a head protector, as we know.

Is it too much of a stretch to think head protectors could become as much a part of standard footballing equipment as shinpads are?

The forehead could remain exposed and free to head the ball, but the more vulnerable parts of the head would be protected. It might appear silly initially but we will adapt to it and it would reduce brain and head injuries short and long term.

The F1 Halo device was initially resisted on (mainly) aesthetic grounds, but they overcame the resistance an it saved another life yesterday.
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
Cech made a return from a fractured skull (debatable whether he was the same standard after) with a head protector, as we know.

Is it too much of a stretch to think head protectors could become as much a part of standard footballing equipment as shinpads are?

The forehead could remain exposed and free to head the ball, but the more vulnerable parts of the head would be protected. It might appear silly initially but we will adapt to it and it would reduce brain and head injuries short and long term.

The F1 Halo device was initially resisted on (mainly) aesthetic grounds, but they overcame the resistance an it saved another life yesterday.

I'm all for that mate, but I'm not sure it's gonna happen anytime soon.

And as was highlighted above, it's a little different for a goalkeeper. It was great that Cech was able to come back though. Hopefully Jimenez will too.
 

mitch

Distinguished Member
It’s actually not a rant. Just wanted to discuss two incidences this weekend where it was done right IMO.

First one - Salah’s offside. I’m happy with foot position to be used, like in that case. Please no more fingers, armpits etc.

Second one - the foul on Traore. That’s the proper use of VAR for me. The ref’s made his decision, the VAR guy has had a quick look, it’s not a howler, get on with the game.
Got to disagree with the second one. The Ref has booked him for diving yet the replay shows that he was caught by the defender. Penalty for me.
 

scrowe

Well-known Member
I’ve read opinions on the Brighton pen from four different refs. Unsurprisingly its two for, two against.
They haven’t got a fudging clue what they’re supposed to be doing.

I've not seen those views, but I think there is a problem with any rule that relies on judging 'intent'. You just can't have rules to be judged/applied by human beings where 'intent' is supposed to be judged.

In terms of that penalty, the ball was in play, the defender tried to kick the ball, Welbeck got there first and knicked the ball away. Whilst I wouldn't claim he had the ball under control as a result, it was in play, he was on his feet in the area, and therefore a consequent goalscoring opportunity was possible. Instead the player kicked his foot, causing him to lose his footing and go down, and any opportunity was lost. It's a foul, and a foul in the box equals penalty. Why should the defender get the benefit of any doubt here, and the attacking team suffer?

Same with handball. A defender is on the line, he jumps to head the ball, the ball hits the crossbar, richochet's down and lands on his forearm, that is slightly perpendicular, as a result of gravity in coming down from the jump, and it deflects away from the goal. Completely accidental, no intent, but it hit his hand, and it would otherwise have possibly bounced onto the ground and then angled into the goal, or been in play such that an attacking player could still have had an attempt on goal. You have to give a penalty for handball. It might be unfair on the defender, but its just as unfair on the attacker. So handball need to be unambiguous, did it hit the part of the body 'deemed' to be handball or not? If yes = penalty.
 

mitch

Distinguished Member
Cech made a return from a fractured skull (debatable whether he was the same standard after) with a head protector, as we know.

Is it too much of a stretch to think head protectors could become as much a part of standard footballing equipment as shinpads are?

The forehead could remain exposed and free to head the ball, but the more vulnerable parts of the head would be protected. It might appear silly initially but we will adapt to it and it would reduce brain and head injuries short and long term.

The F1 Halo device was initially resisted on (mainly) aesthetic grounds, but they overcame the resistance an it saved another life yesterday.
Got to think of the psychological impact it’s going to have on him when it comes to going up for a header.
 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
Got to think of the psychological impact it’s going to have on him when it comes to going up for a header.

Fair point - but elite athletes at the top levels have to have a strong determination and winning attitude to get where they are* so I wouldn't write him off (not saying that you are). Too soon to say of course.

* notable exceptions include Phil Jones and Owen Hargreaves. :rolleyes:
 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
and the attacking team suffer?
Not really a valid point here... The attacking team didn't suffer in this case - the ball was nowhere near in their control and they didn't even claim for the penalty. BHA players were apparently saying to Liverpool players they didn't think it was a pen.
 

faiz0

Distinguished Member
Got to disagree with the second one. The Ref has booked him for diving yet the replay shows that he was caught by the defender. Penalty for me.

Yes it was, my argument is that not what VAR is for though. It wasn’t clearly the wrong decision. Let the referee do his job, only change his decisions when its absolutely necessary.
 

mitch

Distinguished Member
Yes it was, my argument is that not what VAR is for though. It wasn’t clearly the wrong decision. Let the referee do his job, only change his decisions when its absolutely necessary.
Surely if player is being booked for diving rather than the correct decision of a penalty then it’s completely wrong.
 

faiz0

Distinguished Member
Robertson has come out today and said that if it was a pen then so were the Traore and Rashford one’s too (I haven’t seen the latter)
 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
Robertson has come out today and said that if it was a pen then so were the Traore and Rashford one’s too (I haven’t seen the latter)
Agree with that. In isolation the Rashford one was 50/50 for me, but if there is to be any degree of 'consistency' then the trip on Rashford was 100% a pen in light of the Welbeck decision.

Didn't see the Traore one.

VAR was supposed to remove the blatant errors (Hand of God, Thierry Henry putting Ireland out of the WC, etc). How did it come to this?
 

Fergal82

Distinguished Member
People can dress it up anyway they like, fluff it up as well, the fact of the matter is, Robertson kicked an attacker in the box and made zero contact with the ball.

It’s a pen all day long.
 

Abbeygoo

Distinguished Member
People can dress it up anyway they like, fluff it up as well, the fact of the matter is, Robertson kicked an attacker in the box and made zero contact with the ball.

It’s a pen all day long.
It’s not a foul. It’s a contact sport and contact happens when two players are competing for the ball. Doesn’t mean contact it always a foul. Otherwise it would be basketball.
 

Fergal82

Distinguished Member
It’s not a foul. It’s a contact sport and contact happens when two players are competing for the ball. Doesn’t mean contact it always a foul. Otherwise it would be basketball.
Not that sort of contact. Since when has it been ok to kick players?
 

faiz0

Distinguished Member
Agree with that. In isolation the Rashford one was 50/50 for me, but if there is to be any degree of 'consistency' then the trip on Rashford was 100% a pen in light of the Welbeck decision.

Didn't see the Traore one.

VAR was supposed to remove the blatant errors (Hand of God, Thierry Henry putting Ireland out of the WC, etc). How did it come to this?

A number of reasons, but the biggest one being that the officials don’t know what they’re doing. As demonstrated by the the lack of unanimity by the 4 refs asked for their opinion on the Robertson one.
 

Fergal82

Distinguished Member
It’s not a foul. It’s a contact sport and contact happens when two players are competing for the ball. Doesn’t mean contact it always a foul. Otherwise it would be basketball.
If it had happened on the half way line it would’ve been a foul. It’s been scrutinised because it was given in the 94th minute. You kick anyone, anywhere on the pitch and it’s a foul. So why wasn’t that a pen?
 

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