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PQ on Plas Vs CRT?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by TopMeTom, May 18, 2003.

  1. TopMeTom

    TopMeTom
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    I have been looking at improving my PQ from my old Philips 32pw6324 CRT,so I looked at Plasma.Now, I did not notice a massive difference,so am I just blind?Or should there have been this huge PQ difference?Viewed the Hit 42pd3000 via arcam dv88+ with component connections.
    If there is not a huge difference i'll keep my money in me pocket!!


    Cheers,

    Phil
     
  2. lmccauley

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    Well the main differences are the perfect geometry, reduced thickness (meaning it can go on wall, or just look cool on a rack) and potentially larger size (i.e. 42", 50", etc).

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  3. nathan_silly

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    philb PM me and I'll give you cons of Plasma.

    If I post them here I'll just get mugged by the Plasma owners.
     
  4. lmccauley

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    LOL!

    In which case, it's probably worth doing a search for nathan_silly's posts, as this subject has been debated before.

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  5. harrisuk

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    lmccauley. Thanks for that. I have no idea why he hangs around the Plasma forum waiting for opportunities to get stuck into Plasma and convert people to the the monstrous RPTV but there you go.

    I have suggested before that his comments might go down better in the CRT forums :rolleyes:

    And with quality source I personally believe a properly setup Plasma beats CRT hands down. Obviously the considerable increase in the size of screen, space saving and ability to hang it over the fire place are all major advantages for me personally. As are the aesthetics of the Panel. They really do make the room and it should be noted that as well as looking good switched on they also look excellent switched off unlike CRT and the other options available currently.

    One nice little touch I have seen a friend running a picture disc on his as a screen saver. Very impressive looks like a painting on the wall of all his favorite family digital camera snaps.
     
  6. Rob100

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    All I can say is that I wouldn't go back to a CRT for my main set, having "gone plasma" for 6 months now. Somedays I look at the PQ and think "wow", much easier on the eye than a CRT.

    With the plasma it's important not to scrimp on cables and sources (hardware). I have a DV88+ and whilst I wasn't blown away when I first got it by the improvement it made - having got used to it, when using an inferior player I can see the difference immediately.

    Rob.
     
  7. nathan_silly

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    Harris. Read the thread title. I have as much right to put comments my preference to CRT RPTV to your pro-Plasma views.

    I wonder - have you posted any anti-CRT comments on the CRT forums?

    Let's see in a few years how many Plasma's have dead pixels. You won't be able to sell them off.
     
  8. Rob100

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    In a few years I probably won't be wanting to watch the same display that I am now and I doubt I'd want to sell it as I could always put it in the bedroom (or rather on the bedroom wall) - you wouldn't want to do that with a RPTV would you...

    Rob.
     
  9. harrisuk

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    Nathan. Thats where you are wrong. Do a few searches. You wont find any post of mine where I join in a thread and have a go at CRT.

    In fact I think I have only taken part in one thread in the CRT forums. And that was someone asking about Plasma and Tosh 36". And I said the Tosh 36" is an excellent set as it is. Thats my point. If you have an RPTV why do you hang round the Plasma forums ? Why not just go in the CRT forum and slag them off in there and talk to people who are actually interested in RPTV ? Of course you can comment where you want. But dont expect to be warmly welcomed by the majority of Plasma owners.

    My point is we have all heard your comments before about how great RPTV is and how you dont like Plasma. In any event much of what you say about plasma is factually incorrect. Touch wood my panel does not have any dead pixels at the moment.

    And I dont want to sell mine. When I get bored of it in a few years it can go on the wall in the kitchen or something. Thats one of the main benefits. You can stick them virtually any where.

    And unlike RPTV / CRT they dont take up most of a room and make the place look a state.
     
  10. IanM

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    Being a very happy plasma owner I disagree completely with some of nathan_silly's anti-plasma comments on other threads.

    However I still think that he's entitled to his views, especially given the title of this thread. Whereabouts could we have a discussion of the pros and cons of different systems if you can't pan plasmas in the plasma forum or criticise CRTs in the CRT forum?

    I know that it's ground that's been covered before but if most people are going to extol the virtues of plasma again, then there's no reason why he can't repeat his views. They may be generally unconstructive to us plasma owners but they help to provide a more balanced view for people trying to decide whether or not to buy one.

    If he says anything factually incorrect (not an unusual occurance judging from the reaction he provokes) then I'm sure that he'll be corrected. I get the feeling that everyone (including nathan, who seems to enjoy provoking such reactions) would find that fair.

    So go on nathan - tell it to us one more time...

    Cheers,
    Ian.
     
  11. juboy

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    There's some interesting reading about the Plasma Vs CRT PQ in the latest Home Cinema Choice magazine. This is views of industry insiders who have a vested interest in pushing plasma and LCD, yet their views might well surprise some plasma owners out there...
     
  12. nathan_silly

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    Fair enough Ian & Harris prefer Plasma, I've no problem with that.

    But Plasma has it's own problems. If you deny that then you're being blind.

    The biggest cons are..
    1) Pixel Death
    2) Chucks out tons of IR, can block other IR remotes.

    Perhaps when the pixel resolution is increased significantly (that rivals a laptop LCD screen pixel size) then I'll consider getting a Plasma. Therefore dead pixels are only visible when a 2-3 feet away and when Plasma reach 1080P capability. And hopefully they'll sort out the IR problem.
     
  13. lmccauley

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    Just to make it clear, my comment was not meant to be taken as "Don't knock plasmas in the Plasma Forum" - it was "If this has been talked about before, then Phil (the original poster) might get some useful information by searching for those threads".

    As an aside, I'm also looking into buying a plasma, and I have arranged for a demo of two units by someone I trust to set them up pretty much as well as a plasma can be setup (short of getting a friendly Scot to ISF them). I'll base my decision on whether to switch over from CRT to plasma from what I see there.

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  14. StooMonster

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    1) true of any digital screen, LCD on laptop, plasma, LCD television -- not just limited to plasma.

    Do I have any dead pixels on either my plasma screen or my LCD television? Nope.

    Do any of my friends with plasma have dead pixels? Nope.

    I once had a laptop that had a dead pixel. Oh, and my original Gameboy had a dead pixel too.

    2) "can block other IR remotes".

    Does it block any of my remotes, or even the complex single unified one? Nope.

    Does it block any of my plasma owning friends' remotes? Nope.


    I hope those really are the two worst problems with plasmas, because they are negligible. Nothing serious then!

    I'd suggest that the biggest concern with plasmas is the cost; they could be cheaper -- I paid something like £7000 for my 50" screen six months ago. I know that I could've bought three and half RPTV for that price (because Nathan_silly has told me so), but I would need to spend £1m on a mansion for the space required to put them. Besides, plasma blows RPTV away; different league. Is my plasma worth 3.5 times the price of RPTV? In a word: yes.

    StooMonster
     
  15. nathan_silly

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    Based on your location I guess you're fairly well off. Would you save up for several years for that £7000 screen if you were on minimum wage and working class?

    I can understand buying Plasma if several thousand pounds is pocket change & you have a high paying job (say a MD)

    So for the well off- the difference of cost between £1000 on a RP and £3000/£4000 is nothing.

    To the working class however even my 42" RP is very extravagant.
     
  16. StooMonster

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    Nathan, that's why I said the biggest concern with plasmas is the cost; they could be cheaper.

    Then other people I know, who would like one but can not afford it could buy the product they desire. I would agree that they are certainly not a mass market product.

    StooMonster
     
  17. wilber

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    Nathan, that really is a very silly argument.

    Location is no way to judge a person's net worth - I come from a village with more millionaires per square mile than you would think possible. But within the same postcode are several farmers who live at below the poverty line.

    A person on the minimum wage could not realisticly expect to save for a many thousand pound set. A moderately waged person could though - if that is what they want above holiday's, booze, fags etc.

    I have to admit to being in the lucky minority who through invesment at the right time no longer have a mortgage. This makes me "well off" I suppose even though my wage is nothing to make a song and dance about. By careful shopping around I have just ordered a 32 inch Hitachi plasma for £2349 (which includes tuner box, and delivery) from John Lewis - certainly a bit less than than the £3000 - £4000 you seem to think Plasmas cost (the 42 inch version is about £2700 btw) & don't forget that a 32 inch plasma is nearing the visible screen of a 36 inch crt which people are happy to pay £1500 for.
     
  18. leeb

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    Read in this month's What Video magazine that Richer Sounds reckon there will be plasmas available for £1500 after christmas. Now that would shake the tv market!
     
  19. Jon Weaver

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    Don't hold your breath.. I started thinking of buying my Plasma in October last year.

    I told RS that I wanted a 42" Panasonic and for some reason, he tried to talk me out of it stating "We expect to be selling Plasma for £1500 by Christmas".. But that was Christmas 2002!

    It seems strange that I was told almost EXACTLY the same thing last year..

    On the subect of this thread, I have had my Plasma (42" Toshiba) for the past 6 months and its the best thing I have ever bought.

    The PQ far outways any large screen CRT TV I have owned, and believe me I have owned many (I had 9x36" sets in the end (1 Panasonic, 7 Sonys and a Philips)) and the Plamsa has a MUCH better picture than any of these. This is especially impressive when you consider that the Plamsa has a 42" Visible screen, and the CRTs around 33".

    I am not biased, as I am the first to complain about products which don't meet my expectations. But this is the first time I have ever been happy with any large screen purchase!

    I have only one bit of advice... If you have the funds, go for it!
     
  20. harrisuk

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    Dead pixels - Non (Touch wood) and non on my laptop (Touch wood)

    Ir interference - I have never heard that one before. I certainly dont get it. But then again my screen is 3 mentres away from all my av kit like most peoples. I have my screen over the fire place. Looks great.

    My 42" Plasma was £2500. And it is definately twice as good as any RPTV I have ever seen in my opinion when you take all the factors into consideration (And yes I have seen a few and yes I have seen them setup properly, calibrated head on and in pitch darkness as is neccessary with these screens).

    And now it is properly setup the quality is better than my high end 32" CRT I replaced it with on quality source.

    It is stunning to look at switched on and off. And it saves more space than you would believe in my living room. The room looks 100% better now a huge corner has been reclaimed from the 32" CRT.

    I dont think £2500 is that expensive was what you are buying to be honest. A really good 36" CRT will cost you £2000.

    If all you are interested in is size for your money than RPTV is not a bad option. If you are interested in good quality you get a 36" CRT or a decent plasma. If you want reasonable size and are interested in good quality and you dont want to give up half your living room like me you get a plasma. Thats my opinion on the matter.

    I believe that by the beginning of next year budget Plasma screens will be available for around £1500. And that will be the end of RPTV once and for all. With what it costs them to make the sets I cant see it being reasonable to take an RPTV set I cant see it as being viable to sell them at much below £1000 at retail. The shipping costs alone muct be astronomical due to there weight and size. They are practically giving them away at the moment.
     
  21. LV426

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    My local Comet were selling a 32inch Thomson Plasma at GBP1499.99 on Sunday. (Discontinued line).
     
  22. sparkz

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    My Pio433 doesn't have any dead pixels I can see.

    As far as PQ goes. I admit the my old Sony 32" had much darker blacks but it's not something I'm really worried about. After setting the contrast to a realistic (non eye burning) level even my Sky+ picture looks good (although some channels do vary).

    When playing DVD's the picture is stunning!

    It sits on top of my HiFi unit and I don't get any problems with the remote controls at all. Perhaps it's only certain brands?

    Everyone who has seen it wants one! I'll have to start charging admissions.
     
  23. harrisuk

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    Well I dont know much about them. But that is cheap cheap money for a plasma.
     
  24. Bada Bing

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    Ah, so that's why you don't like plasma. I thought your "it give off loads of IR" excuse was pretty weak. Also dead pixels are only visible from about 12 inches away, even on a 42" set.

    Anyhoo, in my opinion even a budget plasma will out-perform a top spec CRT given the right demo material and circumstances. Obviously watching it from 3ft away would show up the interpolated nature of plasma technology, but from a viewing distance of 6ft or more, plasma would easily win. From the same distance the CRT would show up a lot of visible scanlines, but ordinary people find them less obtrusive than a load of dots.

    In my opinion there are only two down sides to plasma at the moment. Firstly cost, but then good 41" RPTV's are still almost 2k anyway, which is tantalisingly close to the budget plasmas. You do need to spend around 3k for a good spec plasma though.

    Secondly is the infancy of the technology. There are tons of teething problems with plasma which a little more real-life testing could possibly have solved. CRT manufacturers seem to be a little blasé about chucking them onto the market as they're so used to having few problems. Compatibility is also a problem from my experience in that certain combinations of hardware can create problems al of their own.

    In conclusion, plasma is certainly superior but needs more time to evolve and improve on quality.
     
  25. nathan_silly

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    MilesbennettDyson, my local hifi dealer has a Fujitsu Plasma. I can see the two dead pixels from 6 feet away. And I haven't got perfect eyesight either.


    Gordon has also said Plasmas chuck out IR noise.

    A 42" RP is not close to £2k. £1100 for a Nicam model, £1400 for the Dolby Digital 5.1 version- and that's a Toshiba, not a Hitachi or other cheap brand. Compare prices Toshiba RP v Toshiba Plasma.

    Don't forget you'll need to fork out for a Plasma stand and tuner box. Not cheap. Agree with the new technology aspect, I'll leave it fo a few years.

    I (could) afford a Plasma I guess, but at the moment they're just over what I'm willing to spend on a single item.
     
  26. harrisuk

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    If £1400 was the budget I would get the Tosh 36" CRT. No way I would pay that for for an RPTV.

    The quality they put out is nothing like acceptable by my standards. You cant watch them in daylight conditions, you need near total darkness and you have to be sat dead on. The viewing angle is poor to say the least. And I have not even gone into the colour bleed and geometry problems, blur effect, low contrast ratio etc.... And they dont fit in most peoples living rooms.

    I had a Samsung Plasma originally. It was faulty so I swapped it for the LG 17. Even the Samsung 42" Plasma which is about as cheap as you can get was far superior to any RPTV I have seen. And that was only £1999. It has RGB scart so All you need is a stand. About 100 from empire direct. I think you can assume that anyone with £2000 to spend on a new screen will have Cable, Sky, free view etc so Tunner not neccessary or recommended.

    Now the Samsung quality was not good enough for me and I am not telling people to go and buy one, there are much better panels available for not much more money but for the money it is not bad value if you get it setup correctly. And I would rather have one of them any day over an RPTV for the extra £600.

    Thats just my opinion. I know many people are very happy with their RPTV. If you know what you are doing and can take the time to get them setup right, have the room and view them in the right conditions they can produce reasonable results.

    But I would not buy one. If plasma was out of my budget I would get a high end CRT 32" - 36". Which in fact is what I had before geting the plasma screen.
     
  27. Bada Bing

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    I had a KP41DS1U for years, so would want something more special if I was going for an RPTV. A decent large Sony with DRCMF was around £1800.

    And you don't need an expensive stand and tuner box if you want to wall mout it and watch Sky.:cool:
     
  28. Jon Weaver

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    Nathan, are you sure that its IR and not RF.

    I must admit that I don't know the answer myself, but I was under the impression that Plasmas chucked out tons of RF, which means that it could interefere with other electronics, not specifically remote controls. They may chuck our Infra-red too, but it doesn't seem to do any harm and I certainly can't see this to be a reason not to go for a Plasma.

    I have every imaginable remote control in my living room, including an X10 setup and a Philips pronto, and I have never seen any problems with them.
     
  29. nathan_silly

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    Jon, ask Gordon..

    If anyone is doubting RP PQ look here (use pop-up stopper before opening!)

    :)

    [​IMG]

    btw, actual picture is even brightness (jpg shows up as darker in the corners- it isn't. Also shows up dots, again no dots on the screen itself.

    how do I make it so the picture appears here?
     
  30. wilber

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    Nathan - use "Post Reply" option rather than quick reply, just under the box you type in is a menu item called "attach file" use browse to select your image et voila
     

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