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Powering Screens

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by windfall, Jan 1, 2004.

  1. windfall

    windfall
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    Hi all

    Happy New Year to you.

    I Purchased a NexNix screen (7ft Elec 16x9) and have mounted it. Ihave now also mounted my pj.

    The end of the cable hanging from the screen shows 4 cables, Live/Neautral and one cable for up and one for down. These plug into the relay switch provided, unfortunately I am not at all conversant with electrical connections. I guess I need a bit of 3 core flex (or two core??) to connect the other end of the relay to 240 AC?

    One question .. Can I connect this to my Amp for the switched plugs. FYI I have a Yamaha DSP A5 and plan to change this for a Yamaha 1400 or 2400 in a few months, One last request - has anyone used the infra red option for the NexNix screen? The chap at NexNix says these are £130+VAT. Any one got any experience on these at all?

    Kind regards

    Tony
     
  2. petrolhead

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    Out of interest. Is it a 7' screen. The reason I ask is that they advertise a 200 and 250 CM screen which is 6.5' and 8'. I am wondering if the canb get a 7' (213) screen?

    Have you projected onto the screen yet. If so di the image fit perfectly within the white area?

    The relays sem very expensive for what they are!!.

    I am concidering building one. One thing you will either need to find a relay that does not draw more current than the Amp can supply or figure our some other way.
     
  3. Dodgey

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    If you are talking about the rocker switch then it should have come with a wiring diagram (you need a three core - twin and earth cable). If you don't have the diagram, shout and I'll help you....
     
  4. windfall

    windfall
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    Hey all

    Right I have now got the screen fully up and working and the image off my old panny AE100 looks great! To be honest the screen quality is excellent and makes the pj look a little weak.

    To Answer questions - Petrolhead - No the image from the 16:9 pj is not correctly within the white area of the screen in fact the width is ok but the height is not..is this a prob that you have?

    With regards to the wiring diagram I followed it like a ludite and was amazed it worked...I went and purchased some twin and earth and was up and running inside 10 mins.

    The relay did come with screen.

    I must say I'm really impressed with it as is the lady of the house.

    Well I'm off to watch some films and eastenders!

    Laters All

    Tone
     
  5. Dodgey

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    Good to hear you got it going! I've never had a screen with a perfect fit. With all of mine I have had to have the sides overlapping onto the black to get the top and bottom to meet the black border. That's partly what the black border is there for!
     
  6. petrolhead

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    This is not good. Surely someone gets it rights.

    My draper overlapped on the right and my current screen is a joke!
     
  7. windfall

    windfall
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    Hi all

    The only thing I would complain about having used the screen for a couple of days now is that it is s l o w to drop. I really could do with a remote trigger.

    Does anyone know...

    1, Can these drop down when powered from an amp and then go back up when the amp is powered off
    <or>
    2, Similar to above except powered from a projector, mine PTAE100 does not have a fed but the sparky who fitted it ran an isolation switch for me and he wants to know that if the projector is switched on from the isolation point would the screen drop. The prob is that if the switch is turned off the screen will remain down..not good.

    Answers on a postacrd please!

    Finally nice to see Sky via S-VHS as well.

    Picture is really awsome !

    Cheers

    Tony
     
  8. petrolhead

    petrolhead
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    Tony , Sky via S-VHS, did you used to watch it thro composite and have the chance to SVHS made a big difference?

    If the amp have a trigger then this can be used to opperate a 240V capable relay. The this you need to get is whats the voltage and max current avaialable from the amp trigger and then buy suitable relay.
     
  9. Dodgey

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    All you need it a 240v latching relay. You want it so that live is always sent to the "up" wire for the screen, UNLESS, live is present from the amp on the relay coil, in which case, live will get sent to the "down" wire.

    The other way, which I am seriously considering is simply replacing the supplied rocker switch with a "latching" (i.e. a switch that stays up or down) switch. This way you simply flick up or down. The screen adjuster stops do the rest. The only thing you can't do with this is adjust the screen height manually, but would never want to do that....
     
  10. windfall

    windfall
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    Hi all again
    Thanks for the info, Dodgey - the second option you mentioned sounds good, does the screens power stop when you hit the bottom and the top of its run on its own?

    I reckon I'll go for a remote option, this way one day I may be able to press a button on a remote and watch the whole system power up and the lights go down! That smy utopia!

    Laters
     
  11. Dodgey

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    OK, you are going to like this :)

    I've been researching, and spending :)

    1) Yes, the screen stops at it's top and bottom stop points (adjustable)

    2) Forget the 2 way latching rocker switch, which has been a nighmare to locate, I have found this!!!

    http://www.quasarelectronics.com/3157.htm

    It is a key fob (radio) operated relay board. So now, I will be able to hit a button on a keyfob and the screen will come all the way down. Hit it again, and it will go up. I will leave the manual rocker switch in place (in series) so if the r/c fails, I can still operate the screen. The kit can be ordered pre-made if you don't like electronics. I have actually ordered the 4 channel version (you only really need one channel) so I can switch my "behind screen" lamps on and off remotely :)

    If you are worried about the complexity, don't. It's dead simple electronics. You feed the relay board 8-12 volts with a standard power supply/dropper. Then, run a pair of wires from the up and down wires for the screen to the "NC" and "ND" terminals of the deisred relay (the basic has 2 channels, you only need one) and run a permanent live to the "C" terminal of the relay. (assume the screen is live switched, if it is neutral switched then run a neutral to the "C" terminal instead.

    Hey presto! Eaqch press of the button will send the screen to the top ot bottom. You could of course wire it so you have to hold one button for up, and one for down, but that would be missing the point! Mind you, with the 4 channel version you could have one button for all-up/all-down and then separate buttons for manual up and down
     
  12. windfall

    windfall
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    Nice one mate . I will order the fully completed one tomorrow!

    With regard to your lights - how are these wired in. I have four downlighters, two 100 watt linears and two downlighters in the fire place, how could you get say the fireplace lights to perate with this switch?

    Thanks again
    Tone
     
  13. petrolhead

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    Will this work with any rmote then Dodgey?
     
  14. Dodgey

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    OK
    1) you need their remote, it has an encrypted learning function.

    2) wiring in lights - well, easy, as long as you don't exceed the amp/watt drawer recommended by the relays - the data is on the web site. 100W lamps should not be a problem (they recommend using it to switch on coffe-makers!) The wiring is simple...

    Say you have a light, you basically cut the live wire - put one end in the "C" socket in the relay / channel you want to use and the other end in the "ND" socket on the same relay. That way, when you don't press the button, the relay is passing the Live from "C" to "NC" (stand for Normally Connected) - which goes nowhere, so the light is off. When you press the button, the current is passed from "C" to "ND" - which your lamp Live is connected to, so the current flows and the light comes on. The same principal can be applied to a light that is wired to a wall fitting, you need to interrupt the live with the relay. With a wall switch you will of course have to leave the switch in the ON position all the time for the relay to work.

    If you fin your light is on when it should be off then simply swap the wires over in "NC" and "ND". As long as you understand how a relay works then it all makes sense.

    I'm going to use it to control 1 pair of small "desk" lamps and an uplighter. That way I can switch off the main room lights (I have LOTS) and then when I'm ready to start the film, lower the screen and finally switch off the front lights with the remote :)
     
  15. Dodgey

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    Well, I received the kit yesterday and buy 10pm I had it all completed and wired in. Now I have a car alrm style fob with 4 buttons. Button 1 drops the blind with one touch and raises it with another touch. Button 2 controls my two front "behind screen" lamps and button 3 controls a tall light for pre-movie illumination.

    :----) All for £45 :)))))
     
  16. petrolhead

    petrolhead
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    You seem as pleased as punch - well done and enjoy :)
     
  17. HDPete

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    Hi guys,

    I've got hold of a 2nd hand 7ft seleco 240v powered screen (collect it on saturday!).

    I'm ordering the new Meridian G Series which has 12v triggers.

    How can I use the 12v triggers to move the 240v screen up/down.

    Will this box of tricks do it? But I don't want to use the remote, just the 12v trigger, with something clever converting the voltages?

    Any advice very much appreciated.

    Pete
     
  18. HDPete

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  19. Dodgey

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    Spot on. That's exactly what you want. Basically it works like this....

    Relays: A relay is a switch that is operated by a current rather than phisically touching/pushing it. It uses an electro magnet to move the switch to position 1 or 2.

    The point of this is simple, you can use electronics to switch different currents. Your 12v signal operates the electro-magnet which in turn makes the connections for the 240v. The electro magnet is not electrically connected to the 240v switch, only phisically, so the 12v never "touches" the 240v.

    On the relay you will have the trigger input (12v plus and minus). This is where your trigger from the amp goes. You will then have one 240v "Input" or "common" and two outputs. On the relays from the above company they are labelled "C" for common, "ND" for "normally disconencted" and "NC" for normally connected.

    Wire the 240 live that normally goes to the screen into the "common" "C" input on the relay, and wire the 240v up and down wires from the screen to the "NC" and "ND" terminals on the relay.

    You want the up wire to go to "ND". This means when the relay does not have 12v (i.e. it is normally disconnected) it will pass the 240v live to the up wire. When there is 12v present the relay will flip / switch and the 240v live will go to the "NC" terminal which is connected to your down wire.

    This all assumes that your screen automatically stops at it's upper and lower extremes (I can't imagine it won't)
     
  20. windfall

    windfall
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    Thats so well put dodgey - have you considered writing a book on this??? :)

    Tony
     
  21. Dodgey

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  22. HDPete

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    Wow!

    Many many thanks for that guys!!

    I'll order one up straight away, and let you know how I get on.

    Thanks again.
    Pete.
     
  23. paul1672

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    hi there.
    i'm really interested in the idea of switching my amp on and watching my screen come down.
    can someone tell me if it's possible to do this with my pioneer vsx-d2011 amp and a nexnix electric screen?
    in a similar thread i have running someone mentioned looking to see if my amp has a 12v trigger output.
    is this what i need?
    any help would be greatly appreciated as i really dont want to spend a packet on a remote.
    many many thanks
    paul
     
  24. windfall

    windfall
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    Hi Paul

    I purchased the remote option from Nexnix in the end - cost £115.

    I wired it in and its great - a bit more expensive but I wanted an immediate ROI when I purchased it and thats what I got. I also purchased a pronto 950 which is now configured to operate the whole lot except my lights which are still manually controlled.

    I cant help you with the 12v output on your amp unfortunately but perhaps run a thread and kick off the discussion?

    Cheers

    Tone
     
  25. ReTrO

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    There are a few options for the 12v control and they depend on what you want to do and what your kit can do.

    At the basic level you can buy a 12v mains relay. This will basicaly use the 12v feed from the receiver and immediately trip the mains side of the relay to drop your screen. The only issue with this is whether your receiver will output enough current to trip the relay, you'll typically need 100mA+, but that is down to the spec of the relay you choose.

    If you don't have enough juice from the receiver or fancy going for something more elaborate you could look at something we distribute at work called an MCU-300. It's probably overkill in this scenario but info on it is here: http://www.marata.co.uk/automation.htm This unit will take 12v, contact closure, RS232, RS485 or RC5 IR commands and control 3 relays, including one that is mains powered for a screen. So you could do lifts, curtains, blinds etc addtionally, have them timed etc.

    Regards

    Richard
    Technical Support @ Marata Vision
    www.marata.co.uk www.vutec.co.uk
     
  26. armxz02

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    I have read the info on automating electric screens (great stuff)

    Just a quick question, I am thinking of buying the Nexnix 16:9 90" and automating the screen (2-channel UHF Remote control kit).

    http://www.quasarelectronics.com/3157.htm

    Anybody tried this with a NexNix or Grandview screen?

    I really just need to know exactly which components are required to automate the "up/down" function on the NexNix or Grandview screen (will the above kit work on any electric screen????).

    Do I only need this 3157KT 2-channel UHF Remote Control Kit (is it prebuilt and ready to use, also do I need anything else? - does it include both the 2 channel circuit board and keyfob?)

    Is the NexNix screen any good, what do you guys recommend for the same price?
    Should I be concerned about non-tensioned electric screens long term.....any major problems?

    Any help will be appreciated.

    Sorry Im a newbie
    Armxz
     
  27. Dodgey

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    Mate, sorry, had no time to reply to the PM... anyway..

    The kit - everything you need is there... apart from

    12v power supply for the circuit board- any cheapy will do from tandy or the likes of (the kit supplier does them). You can even power the circuit board with a 12v "car alarm" type micro 12v battery (the type you find in an alarm fob) - it's all in the instructions.

    Project box. You could build the kit and that's it. Or buy it prebuilt, but it could do with a box for safety and tidyness. Just get the kit (or assembled) measure it, then go to tandy or Maplin and buy a plastic project box that it will fit in.

    A bit of 3 core slimline mains flex.

    Power supply £5, box £3

    Mine is still working 100% with my nexnix screen (which is unbeatable for the money) AND my lights.

    Get the kit, or prebuilt (especially if you are not familiar with soldering) and then drop a line (here) and I'll give you the exact wiring instructions (I think they are pretty much on this thread already). Colour by colour, wire by wire.

    It really is easy, and you will be chuffed to bits with the results. once I explain how to hook it up to the screen, the lights will make even easier sense.

    p.s. the key fob comes with it's own battery.
     
  28. Dodgey

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    oh yes - kit - you get the fob, fob battery, kit (or made kit).

    Spend the extra few pounds and get the 4 channel. Then you can add lights if you feel the need (I can lower my screen, and then switch off two small table lamps behind the screen with the remote), plus another lamp.

    As for the screen. For the cost nothing comes close. Electrically. People talk about non tab tensioned screens curling... mine curls a bit on one of the black edges, and I have a few small ripples on the bottom right of the screen. But once you fire up the projector they 100% disappear.
     
  29. armxz02

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    Thanks Dodgey for all the advice and helpful tips.

    Probably go for the 4-channel prebuilt version, remote control lights....yes please


    :smashin:
     
  30. windfall

    windfall
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    Dodgey

    I have exactly the same ripples on the bottom right edge of my screen as well. The black edges havn't curled as yet but as for the ripples I noticed them a couple of days ago.

    What has caused this? Any Idea - is this a reasonable issue for the warranty dept? Apart from this I wholly recommend the screen - just wish the 16:9 image out of the PJ would fit into the white area !!

    Tone
     

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