power supply for wireles speaker setup?

Rich-Ando

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hi, sorry for the daft question but this is new to me.

currently i have bare brick walls and before i board them i want to install everything ready for wall mounted surround speakers etc. from what i can see they all come with their own power supply lead & plug but i dont want a single socket under each speaker, nor do i want a cable dangling down the wall to a socket.

im guessing the require very little current wise so is there anything small that can be located next to the speaker?

thanks
 
What system are you looking at?
 
probably Sonas but only because it was recommended to me for being able to do everything i wanted. maybe spending around £2-£2.5K. ive looked at what i could see and they just seem to have a normal 3 pin plug on them. as they are 240v i just wondered if there was anything much smaller than the traditional sized socket outlet & plug top.
i can supply them fused from a 13A SFCu below but rather than have a terminated wire into something like Wego connectors, i was wondering if there was something people traditionally used for this that was maybe plug style?
 
A lot will depend on what system you go with, as some will have external PSUs and other (like Sonos) internal ones.

But assuming Sonos...there are a couple of brackets that incorporate power cable routing. All seemed aimed at the US market, but might be worth doing some further investigation to see if anything similar is available and aimed specifically at the UK market. Technically, you could use the US brackets in the UK, but they may not (in fact almost certainly won't) conform to UK building regs. and there's the question of what to put in their place (to terminate the power cable coming out of the wall) if you move and take the speakers down.

- MIDLITE - Sonos In-Wall Power and Mounting Solution


- Tonecase - MOUNTING BRACKET FOR SONOS PLAY:1 AND PLAY:3
--

If you don't go the dedicated bracket route..

I know you said you didn't want outlets, but what about mounting single gang back boxes high on the wall behind the rear speakers and then using an unswitched (or switched) 13A plate with a cable outlet, rather than a plug socket. Then wire one end of the Sonos (IEC C7) Power cord directly into the wall plate.

13A Unswitched Fused Spur with Cable Outlet
Schneider Flat Plate Unswitched Spur Flex Outlet Pearl Nickel GU5203WPN | RS Electrical Supplies

Although if your going to all that effort, there's the question of why you don't just use passive rears. Although you'd then still have the dilemma of how to run the speaker cables, you wouldn't have to worry about mains electricity and building regs.
 
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thank you very much for your most informative & in depth reply.
regarding knowledge of building regs & electrical regs i have over 30 years experience in it so i know fully what you mean by the us ones not conforming to the uk ones. however, i would suspect that these speakers are double insulated and therefore do not require and earth. if that is the case then there are ways and means around it.
i am supplying the power from 13A SFC below and am only wishing to run a cable up the wall to the speaker. if i ever decide to remove them, which would probably only ever be in one of two cases, i am replacing a faile done and therefore the cable would eb reused again, or the fact i was taking it becaus ei am moving house. be that the case i would cut the cable off from the sfc below and fill the hole in prior to sale.

just incase this helps you in anyway for the future, it is possibble to make a flex outlet plate of an architrave switch and box. this was to be my last resort as its half the size of a standard box 1 Gang Architrave Blank Plate - White

i will definately look into these brackets then, they sound a great idea.

regarding the other suggestion of wired passive speakers, i did do a quick look and was under the impression the Sonas ones were not passive. obviously i could be wrong and misread it.

thanks again.

Rich
 
NP, hope it helped..

Yeah, I re-read your post and noticed you mentioned wiring them into a 13A SFCu at the base of the wall & then realised from that, that you prob. knew what you were doing there. In that case, as you say, it's two core/double insulated and although it might not be 'up to regs' there's almost no danger to doing it (if you know what your doing; I added the building regs comment in as I thought it unwise to advise otherwise on a public forum).

Oh and "Sonos ones were not passive" no your correct, they're not (their active). I just meant was it worth going for Sonos over a standard 5.1 passive setup. But my guess is you have your reasons there, not least you might be running Sonos across multiple rooms / using it more for music than movies (in which case Sonos makes total sense).
 
yeah i fully intend to use it in multiple rooms with alexa too. i also have lightwave rf lighting & sockets set up through it so it makes sense. i would have gone for B&O but that is too far out of my finacial reach lol.
many thanks
 
Sonos will do the job but has limitations in terms of the sound formats it can handle and it is not cheap either. But if you are happy with these compromises then it will do job. Considering the work you are doing in the room could you not just run speaker cable in the wall and then use a conventional AVR which will give you better sound quality for the money. The speaker cable could then come out of the wall next to the speaker so no cables trailing.
 
thanks for that PSM1.
100% honest, i am very experienced with building work and associated trades, however, my knowledge on speakers etc is about probably 2% of what you lot know.

i know Sonos is expensive, there's no doubt in that but im somebody that paid £400 for a JBL boombox just so i could have it at work on site so that's how stupid i can be lol.

the requirements i actually wanted, somebody i know that has a little knowledge in the area suggested Sonos would do it all which is really the only reason i am going for them.

ive been using my old Logitec Z what ever they were, the one with a sub woofer that ways a ton but shakes the room. now im doing the room from scratch its about time i had a system with a little more clarity. the logitec has been good but it is what it is, cheap.

what i require is basically this: -

Living room:
soundbar above the mantlepiece
2 x surround at the front
2 x surround at the rear
1 x sub woofer that can rattle my insides

then basically im going to put exactly the same in the kitchen/dining room
and probably speakers on the landing.

i want to able to use Alexa (which i beleive Sonas come ready for) to actually turn speakers on or off to my desire. this may sound weird but some films shal i say, that are a lesser quality, sometimes have badly compressed sound and its better to turn subs off to remove film music that overpowers the speach but then turn it straight back on in an instant.
i also want to be able to have full controll of treble and base independantly.

my underdstanding was that if each speaker was powered at point, i could through alexa control each one on or off to individual requirement. even if the speakers do not have this option, if they are powered at point instead of hard wired with speaker cables, i can use lightwave RF 13A SFC units to control them.

please correct me where i am totally worng because i litterally do not have any knowledge on these things. you may know far better systems that do the same thing or better.
 
I'm sure other will chime, we're on an AV site after all ;-) But FWIW and as someone who has a fairly (overly?) complex 5.1 setup. I have to run power and balanced audio to my rears. I think there's something to be said for a simple plug-it-in-and-go system like Sonos. Particularly if streaming/multi room audio is a key consideration and cost (or bang for buck) less of one. It depends on what you want out of a system.

Maybe a good analogy might be buying a BMW with all the extras straight from the dealer vs someone who will tweak and upgrade their car with 3rd party add ons and/or personally tinker under the hood to get the best bang for thier buck. Or (to over simplify an analogy) a bit like the old PC/Android vs Apple/iOS debate, one you just plug in and it does 85% of what you want very very well, one will let you configure to your hearts content, but with that may also come some unwanted complexity.

Sonos Pros:
  • Multi room handled very well
  • Can use your phone as a remote to 'kick off' streaming, once started you can turn off your phone. This is useful compared to streaming straight from your phone via AirPlay or GoogleCast where your phone always needs to be connected and if someone calls while your phone is streaming it will likely come though the speakers.
  • All of the most common audio streaming services handled very well
  • Very nice app (so anyone in the house can use it)
  • Fairly plug-and-play /Ease of set-up / Ease-of-use
  • Can add more speakers later
  • Wireless
Sonos Cons:
  • It's primary focus isn't 5.1 audio (ie. your standard 'surround sound' setup with 5 speakers and a subwoofer), let alone Dolby Atmos etc. It's much more a multi-room / streaming music system than has been 'extended' to offer a 5.1 solution for people wanting to use it when watching TV and films. Because of that it's much weaker, in terms of features and support, compared to what even an entry level AVR could offer.
  • Cost (you could build something cheaper using kit from different vendors; but that also may mean more issues down the line)
  • Connection from your TV / BluRay (Sonos only accept a single 'optical audio' input; this is about the lowest form of AV audio connection and doesn't support HD codecs like DTS-HD - although DTS-HD always comes with a lossless 5.1 track so you won't end up with no sound, you just won't get the benefit of a lossless audio track, whether you notice is open to debate. An AVR by comparison, will accept HDMI which can receive 'digitally' all manner of audio tracks and decode them)
  • Lack of inputs (as the sound-bar only has one 'optical input' you'll need to plug everything else into your TV first; depending on how many inputs your TV has this may be an issue. You'll also want to check that your TV can send the 5.1 audio from it's HDMI inputs out to the Sonos Playbar via the TV's optical output (some can't). An AVR by comparison will have anything up to 8 HDMI inputs and will also accept any number of regular audio inputs; some can also stream Spotify and let you connect via AirPlay etc.)
  • No auto-room EQ (other than basic distance settings and bass/treble/loudness). Almost all AVRs by comparison will setup distance settings for 5.1 setups automatically and run room EQ to try and even out nulls and peaks in the frequency response caused by your room.
Personally, despite that list cons, if simplicity (esp. audio) and multi-room is your goal then Sonos still has a lot going for it.

Alternatively you could build something like this:

- An AVR, for the sake of argument something like this but your choice here is almost endless. The bigger AVRs will have enough speaker (or pre-out) outputs for you to run multiple zones, with stereo speakers in each zone (albeit wired). You can plug an Alexa DOT or a Sonos Connect (see below) into it to give it both Sonos and Alexa capabilities. Some may even come with Alexa/AirPlay/ChomeCast etc. built in.
Onkyo | TX-RZ720

- A passive sound bar, something like this, which is effectively three speakers in one box which you'd wire you your AVR for the left, centre, front.
SB-3 | Passive Soundbar | Monitor Audio

- Two Passive rears
Surround Speakers | Hi-Fi | Monitor Audio

- An active subwoofer, take your pick, it doesn't have to come from the same manufacture as your soundbar/rears (which probably should). BK Electronics are popular round these parts in terms of 'bang for buck'. This would blow the Sonos Sub out of the water (and probably have your neighbours knocking on the door!).
Monolith-DF Plus

This is pretty much your standard 5.1 setup (albeit with passive soundbar rather than 3 individual front speakers)

If you wanted a 'hybrid' Sonos system (ie. you stlll wanted to use Sonos speakers elsewhere in the house for multi room music) you'd need a 'Sonos Connect' which would plug into your AVR. This unit basically acts like a Sonos speaker without a speaker, instead it feeds the signal that would have gone to the Sonos AMP/Speaker (in a Sonos Play speaker) to your AVR.
CONNECT — Streaming Music Stereo Upgrade | Sonos

You'll probably also need a universal remote programmed up to turn everything on/off and switch inputs, but if your already looking at Lightwave etc. your probably got that covered.

Sorry, that probably adds more confusion than help ;-) If streaming music, easily, to multiple rooms is your key goal, then the Sonos is still a good route. But be aware it has some downsides esp. when it comes to perfect 5.1 or 7.1 playback of movies. But, if your re-wiring the house, then it may make sense to look at a hybrid system or make your AVR the heart of your system, plug everything (incl. streaming boxes / bluray / TV etc.) into it via HDMI and then connect a house full of speakers up to it.
 
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wow, thanks Jamieu, i really do appreciate the time it must have taken to write that. yes it did, and still has, blown my mind with info i am having to firgure out because i know nothing about it.

the main thing that hits me in the face is that you are saying Sonos is good for a "prebuilt ready to go out of the box" system but you can get way better by building from scratch.

strangely enough, i am one of the people that basically laughs at the young lads that spend £5K on a corsa to make it as fast or faster than a factory standard model above it. i just dont see the point. tbh, i was the same with pc's too. i couldn't be bothered with clocking or honing the cpu, i just used to spend more and buy one that already had the speeds i wanted. i have little patience with things the older i get.

all that said, there are things i will build etc. ive always beleived in building best by using the best not all one brand matched so i am totally open to the above.

my actual main requirement is for one room. i want to be able to watch movies AND play music. the main source of my music will more than likely always end up being itunes off my phone. i do use youtube but its crap quality but hey ho, im getting older so my hearing aint that good anymore. currently i have only one optical output fromt he tv so i have to use that for all. basically whatever is on my screen, be it a film or my pc, it goes through the speakers. at the time back in its day this tv was top dog but thats light years ago. Panasonic TX-P50VT20B, so as to its capabilities now, i doubt it matches anything of current standards.

the rest of the house, yes its for music off my phone or radio stations so that doesnt have to be as good.

i really want the best i can get in the lounge and ill live with whatever happnes to the rest of the house.

i had allowed for spending £1500 - £2000 but without checking, have no idea if i am a mile out or within reason. i suppose the question to be asked really is, if you had £2k to spend and wanted a fully controllable system for films and music with bone crunching sub that can all be controll by voice, what would you buy? ill be looking and reading about the links above you have posted and see what they are.

thank you for everything you have posted, i will look at it again and again and read stuff until i undertstand it.
 
I really want the best i can get in the lounge and ill live with whatever happnes to the rest of the house.

i had allowed for spending £1500 - £2000 but without checking, have no idea if i am a mile out or within reason. i suppose the question to be asked really is, if you had £2k to spend and wanted a fully controllable system for films and music with bone crunching sub that can all be controll by voice, what would you buy? ill be looking and reading about the links above you have posted and see what they are..

That's a perfectly acceptable budget for a good 5.1 system. Really the world is your oyster at that price and it will largely depend on:
  • The size of speakers you want / how discrete you want them to be / what you think is nice looking
  • If your willing to go for three separate front speakers or would prefer a sound bar (a passive soundbar is basically 3 speakers in one box)
  • Any specific features you want from your AVR like BlueTooth or AirPlay, Zoned Outputs (for multi room playback), the quality of it's iPhone app etc. that might make you go for one model over another. The specific forums on here are far better than any advice I could give on a specific model.
But for a good, discrete/stylish living room system something like the B&W MT-60D paired with a mid price Yamaha/Denon/Onkyo AVR seems to be a popular choice.

Have a look around different dealers and maybe pop into one near you, who can then do a demo for you, but these are the kinds of prices your looking at for something like that all in.
Denon AVR-X2400H + B&W MT-60D - Weybridge Audio
Yamaha RX-A1070 + B&W MT-60D - Weybridge Audio

You can save money by going for a cheaper (or rather a more 'bang for your buck') subwoofer like the BK one I linked to above, over the B&W one that comes with that package (just buy the satellites on their own). It's simply a straight swap. Both do the job, but one's a stylish round orb while the other is a big wooden box. Depends if you think it's worth paying extra for the B&W styling and which is easier to hide out of the way (the B&W PV1D is a very good / well designed sub; it's just not the best value for money). Likewise you could probably go for a cheaper AVR if you only need 5.1 channels.

As for the rest of the house you could still go with Sonos (and get a Sonos Connect to join it up to your AVR or if your happy with AirPlay maybe just get an AVR with AirPlay built in).

Another option is to get an AVR with >6 channels and use the other 'zoned' channels for your speakers in other rooms (obv. you'll then have to run speaker cables to them), but most AVRs have iPhone apps to handle which zones play what. Sonos is perfect for placing in places like the kitchen/sideboard etc. where you don't want to 'install' speakers. But if your running cables anyway then maybe make the AVR the heart of your system.
 
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regarding wiring, i have/am only gutted the living room. the dining room & kitchen i sank £18K into at trade costs about 3 years ago and tbh, if i dare do damage in there the other half would kill me, hence wireless only for those rooms ha.
i honestly do not care about bang for buck too much. yes its asensible thing to do but i am one of thos epeople that say im budgeting £1500-£2k but can fairly eductaedly say, when it comes to it ill spend at leats another £500-£1k on top because i always do when i see other things that intrigue me.
for example, i keep seeing the advert on the right of this page stating "
New! SVS 4000 Series Subwoofers.
Reference Quality Bass, Groundbreaking SVS Value"
i like the look of them and then wonder if they are crap or top end but at a cost. you see i really do have no idea about this.

it will more than likely be music via my iphone through itunes that will get played about 95% of the time for music and films played via VLC player through my pc for the rest. i do have a blueray player but most of what i watch is generally through the pc/tv (virgin).

i simply cannot stand music without base and the chances are ill end up with two subs (unless thats not possible)but working totally independantly fo each other unless i want the whole lot blasting out to clear the neighbours out (wishful thinking)

just to show how daft i am i have had the 5.1 system stuck in my head yet talk about a soundbar and then was still saying two satellites in the front and rear but im assuming thats just being mental as that is what the soundbar is meant to do by providing all front sound?
 
I was about to ask about the soundbar and front speakers but you just answered it.
If music is important then a soundbar would not be the best option. Have you considered in wall speakers instead?
You can get passive soundbars as well if you wanted that form of speaker so can still use an AVR. This will give much better sound quality and the flexibility to add additional subs etc.
 
yes, i was just being an idiot :facepalm:
im not keen on in-wall speakers as they produce an echo chamber through the wall to next door and we do from time to time hear each others TV's. they just go away at least 1 week every month or sit in there conservatory at the rear at night so we can blast what we like generally.

with all of your replies and suggestions, using terminoloigy that means normal to you but knew to me, its going to take me a while to sort what i want. it does look like its going to be a "built" system instead of a "prebuilt" system.

it sounds as if im going to be doing what i already had in the living room, as in 5.1 with a decent ball busting sub. all to be alexa controlled.
the kitchen should be fine with probably just a soundbar and sub because that should be ample for the time spent in there.
the landing can just have a soundbar because i will never listen to it up there, its just for the missus whilst cleaning etc and in the nicest way possible, she'd be happy with a crappy £5 radio. i get annoyed when i find her watching tv on none hd channels :nono:

although i know what Atmos is from the cinema, i must look into what it can do for me at home.

all that remains i guess is to peice it all together and get what i need.

for some strange reason, the wife seems to think we need a new sofa first???? does she not realise that a sofa with tv sound is only half as good as the floor with cinema sound, go figure?
 

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